Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[danmartis]

return pump

return pump

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13300742#post13300742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
For the 55g acrylic, I would consider using an external coast-to-coast overflow. It will save room in the tank. If you are not comfortable modifying the back of the tank to create the overflow weir, it could still be done by drilling a series of holes.

I would go with the 1" bulkheads at minimum and the 1.25" standpipe for the open channel at least.

hey bean i decided to go with 1.25" all around.what return pump should i get?and im doing a calfo coast to coast overflow.thank you

 

[AbraxasFrog]

I am very interested in this design - and as I read through the thread, one nagging question won't leave my mind. It is fundamentally a basic plumbing question, so forgive me if this question is better asked in a newbie forum. However, as it does pertain to this design and my desire to implement it, I thought I should ask it here:

This partiuclar design "self-regulates" as it were, with the siphon able to handle a wide range of flow rates. So, pardon my ignorance, but how does the siphon regulate or change the amount of flow generated my any particular return pump?

For example, how/why can the siphon drain 500gph when a return pump of 500gph is used, and that same setup drain upwards of 1500gph when a return pump of 1500gph is used?

Is the return pump the key to the siphon? Primitively, does the return pump "suck" water (rather than relying on gravity to drain) creating the siphon? A stronger "sucking" force (i.e. greater gph pump) would then siphon faster?

Again, forgive my ignorance, but I like to know the whys/hows when implementing something rather than take for granted that it just works.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13310961#post13310961 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
No, you should be able to place the valve down low

good stuff. thanks again.

 

[Diffusion]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13311669#post13311669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AbraxasFrog
how does the siphon regulate or change the amount of flow generated my any particular return pump?

AbrexasFrog,

I am not an expert and Bean can correct me if I am wrong but...

4 Scenarios

1) If you are using a small flow rate the water will be be using the main 2 pipes with no siphon at all.

2) When the flow increases it causes a siphon in the first pipe which moves a lot more water. The 2nd pipe then moves very little water.

3) If there is still even more flow the water lvl rises and causes the 2nd pipe to also create a siphon (as the air pipe becomes submerged.)

4) If there is still even more flow then the emergency pipe (3rd upturned one) then comes into effect which again will create yet another siphon.

Any more flow and you have a huge amount ( >2000Gallons/hr if I recall correctly) you can still accommodate a larger flow by increasing the pipe size though.

 

[AbraxasFrog]

Diffusion, thank you for the pointing the way!

I was admiring this system, and the flexibility it would provide over multiple flow rates. I am currently planning a 70G with sump and only wanted moderate flow through the summp (3-5 times right now - with added circulation provided by a closed loop manifold). However, if I ever wanted to increase the flow rate through the sump at a future date, I want an overflow system that could handle an increase.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13318814#post13318814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Diffusion
AbrexasFrog,

I am not an expert and Bean can correct me if I am wrong but...

4 Scenarios

1) If you are using a small flow rate the water will be be using the main 2 pipes with no siphon at all.

Maybe... but if the flow is THAT small that you don't need the siphon for silence, than you don't need the 3 standpipes

In most cases we want to use the siphon, as this is what creates the silence. You would simple adjust the valve to restrict the standpipes flow until you form a siphon instead of open flow.

2) When the flow increases it causes a siphon in the first pipe which moves a lot more water. The 2nd pipe then moves very little water.

Yes

3) If there is still even more flow the water lvl rises and causes the 2nd pipe to also create a siphon (as the air pipe becomes submerged.)

Ecactly. This will only happen at system startup (before the siphon fully kicks in) or in blockage type of situation.

4) If there is still even more flow then the emergency pipe (3rd upturned one) then comes into effect which again will create yet another siphon.

Exactly.

Any more flow and you have a huge amount ( >2000Gallons/hr if I recall correctly) you can still accommodate a larger flow by increasing the pipe size though.

Yup... The system as posted here will easily do over 2000 GPH. I am not sure how much more, maybe 2800 or so. That is with 1" bulkheads. If the BH's were 1.5" then the system would have even more capacity with the same size plumbing.

 

[Diffusion]

Thanks Bean for the backup

AbraxasFrog I am in process of putting a 75 tall tank together right now. I have already drilled the tank, made the wall to wall overflow for surface skimming and am assembling the pipes. I'll try and get a pic of my pipes up tonight so I can get a thumbs up from Bean before I glue them all together.

Bean also thanks for the idea on the flex PVC, I got some this past weekend at a "Club Piscine" which is a pool / spa megastore up here. I am sure it will be perfect to get the water from the pipe to the sump easily and cleanly.

 

[Tswifty]

Hey Bean, I have my initial plumbing design laid out, and was wondering if you could take a look at it for me. Particularly the siphon line. I'll be teeing that line off so it can feed the refugium and sump, and want to make sure I got it correct.

Thanks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13326452#post13326452

 

[AbraxasFrog]

BeanAnimal, thank you for the analysis: your comments have helped clear any confusion I had about the basics! I now feel very confident about the overflow mechanics.

Diffusion, I can't wait to see those pics!

When the standpipes are plumbed does the height of the top PVC (from the Sani-Tee to the cap - and in the case of the overflow pipe, the cap with the John Guest tubing) matter overly much? Was the decision to cap all three pipes an aesthetic one (since the overflow was going to need one for the tubing, the rest were done to look similar)? I was curious why the emergency pipe and siphon pipe are not made with 90 degree elbows. . .

 

[FirstContact]

Hello Bean,

Looking through threads and pics, could the inner and outer boxes be acylic for a glass tank? Is there a need to bond the boxes to the back glass panel if they are 5 sided? Would three bulkheads support the boxes on a small scale version for a 46g Bow? I'll be reading the Silent & Fail-Safe Aquarium Overflow System.

Thanks so much,
:rollface:

 

[Sango-chu]

bump

 

[Diffusion]

My pipes you will notice they are not exactly like the ones Bean's original design. I had a lot of trouble getting 1.5" PVC parts around here but I think I achieved the same functionality.

The pipes on my tank

An individual pipe

Nothing is glued yet so let me know if I should mod something now

(PS I know my Silicone looks like #@$ I have a hard time getting a good bead in a tight space. I am taking the razor blade to the excess this weekend to clean it up. It does hold water though

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13327718#post13327718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
Hey Bean, I have my initial plumbing design laid out, and was wondering if you could take a look at it for me. Particularly the siphon line. I'll be teeing that line off so it can feed the refugium and sump, and want to make sure I got it correct.

Thanks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13326452#post13326452

It should work, but again splitting it off via a TEE is something I have not tried with this setup so I can not speak about the stability. You want to make sure that the fuge can handle 100% of the siphon flow in case it does get out of balance for some reason.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13330759#post13330759 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FirstContact
Hello Bean,

Looking through threads and pics, could the inner and outer boxes be acylic for a glass tank? Is there a need to bond the boxes to the back glass panel if they are 5 sided? Would three bulkheads support the boxes on a small scale version for a 46g Bow? I'll be reading the Silent & Fail-Safe Aquarium Overflow System.

Thanks so much,
:rollface:

No, you can use a 5 sided box attached via the bulkheads gaskets, but it may get nasty between the back panel and the overflow box.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Diffusion, everything should work, as long as your glue joints are good. Make sure that airline is sealed in the top of the standpipe, as your standpipe caps are slightly lower than the maximum water level. If it is not glued yet, I would extend the caps upwards a bit, and use adaptors to fit screw on caps. The screw on caps will allow you to clean the standpipes if it is ever needed.

 

[Diffusion]

Thanks BeanAnimal,

I was thinking they may be a bit short, I'll see if I can get a screw cap, but like I said things seem to be limited up here /sigh

I have a basic 1.5" coupler that I may use but yeah that will pooch any future maint.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Then don't worry about it

 

[2_zoa]

I was wondering where you are getting your white PVC sanitary tee fittings? I cant find them locally. Did you order them from the Internet or plumbing supply chain?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Home Depot or Lowes should have them in 1.25" or 1.5"

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ohh... and you don't absolutely have to have the san-tees... they just help reduce turbulance a bit.