Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[sleepydoc]

For the internal weir, you could even have a single piece of glass placed at an angle. Don't go too crazy making it slim as you need enough room to get the bulkheads in & out. (You could place the bulkheads 'backwards' with the flange on the outside and the nut on the inside if necessary. Either way, the easiest is to do a coast to coast - just one or two pieces of glass extending the length of the tank.

As long as your external box is wide enough to safely drill the holes it will be fine. You will also need to have it a bit deeper for the bean plumbing. I'm not an expert on this setup, so I would read back though this thread to get more information on plumbing a bean with an external box.

 

[Kingfisher1980]

Thanks Doc. I've seen enough videos and read enough to understand the basics of the plumbing itself. I was more concerned with how safe is it to use the bulkheads to hold the box on. Glass is pretty heavy, and then adding water.... That's a lot of sheering force on the bulkheads. I thought about doing coast to coast, but it's a battle getting it inside the tank once assembled.

I'll only be running 600-700 gph so a smaller unit should give me plenty of skimming and flow.

 

[805reef]

I am going to get a 24x15x20 tank made to use as a chaeto/frag tank. It will be under my stand next to the sump. Would it be overkill to use a bean animal for this tank? If not would 3/4" bulkheads be enough or should I go with 1"?

 

[Gorgok]

It would depend on the flow... If you plan to flow a bunch then a bean is a good idea.

 

[sleepydoc]

That's about 30 gallons; even if you're doing 10x flow, it's still only 300 gph. You could potentially do a durso, but with a coast to coast overflow a bean is probably easier.

 

[Swope2bc]

Hi everyone, I am sure this question has been asked 1000 times by now but this thread is massive. I'm preparing the plumbing for my 40b and wonder if I need to use the recommended 1 1/2" pipe? I know the easy answer is no, or it depends on my return pump (jabeo dct 4000 most likely at close to the lowest setting). The biggest question is, though the original Bean design flows 2000+ GPH what would the max flow through 1" be given the full siphon? Thanks for the help!

 

[Swope2bc]

Also, if it's not too much trouble, could someone post a pick list (parts to buy) for a Bean setup dropping straight out of an external box. I'm a bit confused about how Bean used 1 1/2" parts through a 1" bulkhead too.

 

[sleepydoc]

Max flow through a 1" pipe depends on the drop (longer drop means more help from gravity & higher flows.) In general, you can get several hundred, to over 1000 gph with a 1" pipe at full siphon, so a 1.5" pipe would be more than overkill for you.

Where it matters more is with the open channel/Durso standpipe. This is what gives what I call the silent bandwidth (range of flows over which it flows silently.) A 1" durso standpipe has a very narrow range of flows that it can handle quietly before it starts to gurgle. 1.25 & 1.5" have significantly higher flows.

I would uses at least 1.25" for the open channel standpipe purely for this reason. You can still have a 1" bulkhead and use a bushing to upsize the pipe after the bulkhead.

 

[Swope2bc]

Max flow through a 1" pipe depends on the drop (longer drop means more help from gravity & higher flows.) In general, you can get several hundred, to over 1000 gph with a 1" pipe at full siphon, so a 1.5" pipe would be more than overkill for you.

Where it matters more is with the open channel/Durso standpipe. This is what gives what I call the silent bandwidth (range of flows over which it flows silently.) A 1" durso standpipe has a very narrow range of flows that it can handle quietly before it starts to gurgle. 1.25 & 1.5" have significantly higher flows.

I would uses at least 1.25" for the open channel standpipe purely for this reason. You can still have a 1" bulkhead and use a bushing to upsize the pipe after the bulkhead.

Sweet, thanks Doc, I will have about 2.5/3' of drop. The sump is directly below the tank (not in a basement). Does the bushing affect my performance given the external box?

 

[sleepydoc]

Sweet, thanks Doc, I will have about 2.5/3' of drop. The sump is directly below the tank (not in a basement). Does the bushing affect my performance given the external box?

No more than it would affect the performance of an internal box. Every coupling, transition, joint, etc adds a bit of resistance to flow. A 1" - 1.25" bushing will add very little if you are going up in size.

 

[Swope2bc]

No more than it would affect the performance of an internal box. Every coupling, transition, joint, etc adds a bit of resistance to flow. A 1" - 1.25" bushing will add very little if you are going up in size.

That makes sense, won't the flow max out based upon the smallest choke point though? So with a 1" choke point will the 1 1/4" really help that much?

 

[thejuggernaut]

That makes sense, won't the flow max out based upon the smallest choke point though? So with a 1" choke point will the 1 1/4" really help that much?

There is friction loss also to consider, so yes a larger pipe will help. But I don't really see any advantage to running 1" bulkheads over 1.5" ones if you are using an external box. If your siphon line has less than 1000 GPH I would switch to 1" piping on that line only, just so it has enough velocity to purge the air during startup. Other than that, there is no negatives and several benefits to running larger bulkheads and plumbing.

 

[Swope2bc]

There is friction loss also to consider, so yes a larger pipe will help. But I don't really see any advantage to running 1" bulkheads over 1.5" ones if you are using an external box. If your siphon line has less than 1000 GPH I would switch to 1" piping on that line only, just so it has enough velocity to purge the air during startup. Other than that, there is no negatives and several benefits to running larger bulkheads and plumbing.

Am I mistaken that Bean used 1" bulkheads for cost with 1.5" pipe? I believe he stated flow rates consistently at or beyond 2000 gph. That being said, the reason I would go with all 1" would be for cost, and because I already have 1" hole saws. Now, if 1" would not be sufficient I could upsize.

Keeping in mind that my return pump maxes out at 1500gph but is a dc pump and will run about 50% essentially. Also, this is only a 40b. Do I truly need to go bigger or will 1" meet my intended use without trouble?

 

[woodnaquanut]

Keeping in mind that my return pump maxes out at 1500gph but is a dc pump and will run about 50% essentially. Also, this is only a 40b. Do I truly need to go bigger or will 1" meet my intended use without trouble?

I run all 1" on my 120g tank. My pump is rated at about 1000 gph and the siphon is closed about half way.

I would be concerned with larger pipe you wouldn't have enough flow to properly purge the siphon. I know with my tank as the return pump gets close to needing cleaning, the siphon starts to fail and the system gets noisy.

 

[Swope2bc]

I run all 1" on my 120g tank. My pump is rated at about 1000 gph and the siphon is closed about half way.



I would be concerned with larger pipe you wouldn't have enough flow to properly purge the siphon. I know with my tank as the return pump gets close to needing cleaning, the siphon starts to fail and the system gets noisy.

Thanks woodnaquanut! Exactly the first hand info I was hoping to find! 1" all around will be the plan. Oh, do you have more than the average drop into your sump? Or is it just under the 120g?

 

[woodnaquanut]

Thanks woodnaquanut! Exactly the first hand info I was hoping to find! 1" all around will be the plan. Oh, do you have more than the average drop into your sump? Or is it just under the 120g?

Just under the tank. Sadly no basement here on the left coast!

 

[Swope2bc]

Just under the tank. Sadly no basement here on the left coast!

That's great thank you for the help

 

[thejuggernaut]

Am I mistaken that Bean used 1" bulkheads for cost with 1.5" pipe? I believe he stated flow rates consistently at or beyond 2000 gph. That being said, the reason I would go with all 1" would be for cost, and because I already have 1" hole saws. Now, if 1" would not be sufficient I could upsize.

Keeping in mind that my return pump maxes out at 1500gph but is a dc pump and will run about 50% essentially. Also, this is only a 40b. Do I truly need to go bigger or will 1" meet my intended use without trouble?

I wasn't saying that a 1" bulkhead wouldn't work, at your flow levels, it would work fine. I was saying that there is no downside to using 1.5" bulkheads. For that amount of flow, ideally I would run my siphon with 1" lines, and for the open and emergency run 1.5" lines. If you already have the hole saw for the 1" bulkheads, then I would use that. If was starting from scratch and didn't have any bulkheads or holesaws, I would probably run the larger bulkheads in case you want to upgrade to a larger return in the future, or if something went down your emergency, it would stand a better chance of making it all the way down without getting caught at the bottle neck where the smaller bulkhead is. However, it is a minor point, and probably not worth the money you would spend buying a different hole saw and more bulkheads.

 

[Swope2bc]

I wasn't saying that a 1" bulkhead wouldn't work, at your flow levels, it would work fine. I was saying that there is no downside to using 1.5" bulkheads. For that amount of flow, ideally I would run my siphon with 1" lines, and for the open and emergency run 1.5" lines. If you already have the hole saw for the 1" bulkheads, then I would use that. If was starting from scratch and didn't have any bulkheads or holesaws, I would probably run the larger bulkheads in case you want to upgrade to a larger return in the future, or if something when down your emergency, it would stand a better chance of making it all the way down without getting caught at the bottle neck where the smaller bulkhead is. However, it is a minor point, and probably not worth the money you would spend buying a different hole saw and more bulkheads.

Thanks Juggernaut, no sought larger for those would be better. But, as you have well said, the advantage may not outweigh the extra cost. Thanks for all the help!

 

[sleepydoc]

I wasn't saying that a 1" bulkhead wouldn't work, at your flow levels, it would work fine. I was saying that there is no downside to using 1.5" bulkheads. For that amount of flow, ideally I would run my siphon with 1" lines, and for the open and emergency run 1.5" lines. If you already have the hole saw for the 1" bulkheads, then I would use that. If was starting from scratch and didn't have any bulkheads or holesaws, I would probably run the larger bulkheads in case you want to upgrade to a larger return in the future, or if something went down your emergency, it would stand a better chance of making it all the way down without getting caught at the bottle neck where the smaller bulkhead is. However, it is a minor point, and probably not worth the money you would spend buying a different hole saw and more bulkheads.

Actually, for lower flow systems, some people have reported problems with the larger bulkheads, presumably because the lower flow velocity prevents the line from purging the air.

Bigger holes are not always benign either, but assuming they are properly spaced and drilled, that shouldn't be an issue.