Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[EvMiBo]

Yeah... 3/4". LFS plumbing guru suggested just going herbie with the 1-1/4" being the siphon. I'm paranoid though.

Is there a reason it wouldn't work with the 3/4" siphon and 3/4" open channel? I'm thinking it would be best for the emergency to be the big pipe.

You'd be very limited in flow if you used the 3/4" as your siphon. I might be tempted to go herbie too with your setup, and follow what your LFS guy's suggestion. It's not as fail safe but still a widely used overflow system, you should be fine imo.

 

[Spar]

I am having issues with my BA. I use 2 Reef Synergy Overflow's (external calfo) where I can see in from the sides to see the water level in the overflow. Every few minutes (between 3 to 5) the drains start siphoning hard (water goes to bottom of the full siphon drain) and then go back to normal (where set with the gate valve).

Besides the noise issue with this, the biggest issue is that my sump level goes up and down accordingly when it does this. Just enough that it plays havoc on my auto-top off switch valves.

Any idea what could be causing this? Does it matter much that I have my gate valve up toward the top rather than down at the drain exit?

Here are views of my setup:

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Offhand I would suspect that your siphon isn't actually starting. You're running 2 dursos essentially and when the siphon line purges out you get enough flow to suck the overflow box dry and let air in, and the cycle repeats.

This may be due to a few things:

1) gate valve is too high. Needs to be at the bottom of the siphon line run
2) horizontal runs are a no-no...especially after the gate valve. Prevents the pipe from purging air.

 

[Spar]

Offhand I would suspect that your siphon isn't actually starting. You're running 2 dursos essentially and when the siphon line purges out you get enough flow to suck the overflow box dry and let air in, and the cycle repeats.

This may be due to a few things:

1) gate valve is too high. Needs to be at the bottom of the siphon line run
2) horizontal runs are a no-no...especially after the gate valve. Prevents the pipe from purging air.

Thanks Bud. I figured the horizontal run wasn't optimal. The problem I run into is the length the line has to run to get into the expected compartment of the sump, given this is an 8 foot long tank. I could put it at a 45 degree angle at best. Is that better or does it still pose the same issues pretty much?

Do you think that is more likely than the gate valve being too high, or is it likely they are both doing damage?

On a side note which may make this easier... noise actually isn't an issue for me as this is in a fish room with the tank viewable from the living room, mostly muted. should I just consider going double open channel and dealing with a little hissing sound? I assume that would get rid of the siphon issues, and make the horizontal run less of an issue...?

 

[woodnaquanut]

@Cliff
So you have two BA's running?

Perhaps it just isn't adjusted/balanced correctly? Two BA's are harder to setup than one.

If one side is doing most of the flow the other could need more flow, or less flow or...

What Floyd said is all good. Moving the gates closer to the sump and doing a 45 degree slope is better than the horizontal run you have.

 

[Spar]

good point, i could see what happens if i just close off the full siphon completely on one side. and then slowly adjust from there.

 

[S2minute]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Hi folks! I've been waiting to try this for a while now. I bought a used 220 and installed a Bean Animal. Tank is 6 feet long and the overflow is 5 feet so it's nearly C2C. Anyway, i set it up on my basement floor and used a 4 foot level to level. After doing so, the level reads now dead on from front to back and nearly dead on side to side. Turns out the left side is off by an 1/8" Is that acceptable for a bean Animal? or will it cause it to fail? Better yet is 1/8" something i could get away with for the tank itself. I'm not trying to seem lazy. It's just a royal pain moving that thing. If it's in any way going to adversely affect the over flow or integrity of the tank i will deff fix it. i just was not sure if it would be a concern with that small a difference. Thanks.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Thanks Bud. I figured the horizontal run wasn't optimal. The problem I run into is the length the line has to run to get into the expected compartment of the sump, given this is an 8 foot long tank. I could put it at a 45 degree angle at best. Is that better or does it still pose the same issues pretty much?

Do you think that is more likely than the gate valve being too high, or is it likely they are both doing damage?

On a side note which may make this easier... noise actually isn't an issue for me as this is in a fish room with the tank viewable from the living room, mostly muted. should I just consider going double open channel and dealing with a little hissing sound? I assume that would get rid of the siphon issues, and make the horizontal run less of an issue...?

I noticed that. a 45 would help but that's not going to get you over to your intake section by the time it hits the floor. Any slope will help and IMO this is one of the causes of the siphon not starting correctly.

The gate valve not at the bottom of the run contributes because the water below the gate valve flows freely (unobstructed by the gate valve, so you get an airlock condition).

One idea you might consider, though a bit pricey, is using Spa Flex. This is about $35 for a 10 foot section at Menards I believe.

http://www.menards.com/main/p-1444442660729-c-8582.htm?tid=-2270908486491272093

You can can solvent weld this just like regular PVC, so what you would do is weld this to a coupler fitting below your overflow box (secure the spa flex to the stand, make sure it's supported) then turn the corner to go across to your sump and use hangers to maintain a slope (any slope) then either bend the piping down and put the gate valve on the end, or terminate the spa flex into a 45 or even a 30 fitting so that the gate valve sits roughly vertical, but that's not critical. It's much more critical to have a slope on the line and the gate valve at the bottom.

You can even have the last part of the run of spa flex be horizontal and go into a 90 then to the gate valve. I do that but it's a very short run, but what happens is that the water rushing through the siphon line pushes the air down (churns it up as the water runs past it, purging it out) and if you don't have this slope, the process takes a lot longer. So the last foot or so can be horizontal or close to it, as this won't quite contribute as much to an airlock condition.

HTH
Bud

 

[FullBoreReefer]

Hey guys, just want a quick opinion. I'm gonna have a 36"x36"x25" tank built that has an externally centered overflow box(see attached pic for example). As of now I have a jebao dc12000 return pump so I have some adjustability as far as return GPH goes.

Should I have the overflow drilled for three 1" drains? Or three 1.5" drains?

I kinda wanna be better safe than sorry, but I don't want to much overkill that I'd be wasting money on larger plumbing(not that it's crazy expensive, but you know what I mean).

Thanks

(This is not my pic, only a quick example)

 

[EvMiBo]

go 3 x 1.5" drains.

 

[S2minute]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Hi everyone! I've been skimming through the years of posts and have found similar posts but, not quite what i need for what i have so please, if i can get some input on this. I have a multi-tank system. DT 175 BF, 150 Gal RM sump, 150 standard that is gravity fed to the 175 DT. A 20 gal cheato that is gravity fed to the 150. That's current.
I bought a 220 used and i plan on using it as a frag tank. I also bought a 70 gal RM for it's sump. I plan on plumbing these two into the main 150 sump which is located about 15 feet away. What i did was build a platform to elevate the 70 gal RM sump about 18" above the 150 gal sump. The 220 i have set up almost like Beans with a 56" internal OF which is almost c2c. The 220 already had 5-1" holes drilled in it. Four across the top and one dead center in the middle, 1/2 way up. I decided to leave the hole on the top right and the lower hole in the middle alone and use as returns. The other 3 holes i re-drilled to 1.5" with 1.5" bulkheads and are now part of the internal overflow. The only differences are that the original 1" holes were each progressively higher by like 1/8". What i did was to make the lowest the siphon, the next highest the open drain and the highest the emergency.
The piping from the bulkheads all 1'5" PVC as well. The only thing that is really different is that because of the hole span across the overflow, i'll have to use a couple of 45s to make the siphon and emergency drain into the 70 gal sump as the sump is not as long. If there is a problem here please let me know.
The big question i have it about the plumbing from the 70 gal sump to the 150 gal sump. What i did here was to plumb 2" PVC with a 2" bulkhead from the 70, which is then gravity fed to the 150 about 15' away with a 18" difference in height. In the 70 sump the 90 elbow is turned up and has a large plastic cage like screen screwed on top. On the other side of the 2" bulkhead the 2" PVC rises up above the water line and is capped off but, a hole with an airline will be in it and attached just above the 70 sump waterline and making it act just like an open channel. What i'm trying to get input on really is if this is going to be a go but, input on anything about would be a huge help. Thanks in advance!

I'd like to add that the new pump is a Hammerhead and will be returning to the 175 DT via 2- 1" returns , the 220 via 2-1" returns and the 150 standard which will be T'ed off for a 3/4" return and dialed back with a ball valve.

 

[S2minute]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System Reply to Thread

Have not seen Mr. bean check in since last oct. Is he still around?

 

[jason2459]

Have not seen Mr. bean check in since last oct. Is he still around?

Around periodically. Pretty much everything has been answered. (in the first couple page too I might add...)

 

[Mr.Tan]

So far so good with my tank running. Its been "online" for about 3 days now. I only have one minor question as to whether or not i should leave it because its OK, or adjust it to stop.


I have a very minor "stream" that runs through my open channel pipe. Its not gushing water, its just a small amount that flows through it into the sump. Should there be no water running through the OC at all?

 

[FullBoreReefer]

So far so good with my tank running. Its been "online" for about 3 days now. I only have one minor question as to whether or not i should leave it because its OK, or adjust it to stop.


I have a very minor "stream" that runs through my open channel pipe. Its not gushing water, its just a small amount that flows through it into the sump. Should there be no water running through the OC at all?

So your siphon on pipe one is working, and your have a slight flow through pipe two? Or do you mean open channel as in emergency pipe three?

 

[Mr.Tan]

So your siphon on pipe one is working, and your have a slight flow through pipe two? Or do you mean open channel as in emergency pipe three?

siphon is working and making a complete siphon and i have a very small trickle of water through pipe 2. emergency is completely dry. Its not like i have a total siphon in pipe 2, its just a little drain off of water

 

[FullBoreReefer]

siphon is working and making a complete siphon and i have a very small trickle of water through pipe 2. emergency is completely dry. Its not like i have a total siphon in pipe 2, its just a little drain off of water

A small trickle is exactly what you want.

Just to be clear, do you have a valve setup on your siphon, and you've "tuned" that drain according?

But it sounds like yours is set up perfect with a small trickle in pipe #2.

 

[soocold]

Ok so I got a little over 300 post in the old thread and hit my TLDR. I've been fighting filtration for several years across both salt and freshwater, HOB filters, canister, and HOB overflow/sump. The tank is an off the shelf 56gal column, and currently stocked with 40ish small schooling fish. My current problem requires surface skimming that my canister just can't do. I still have a maxijet 3000, 20gal sump, and eshopps pf-800 HOB overflow. What I'd like to do, to avoid destroying an old tank by drilling, is get the eshopps pf-1800 and make a "HOB" bean overflow. I also dont have a large enough spare tank to house the fish for me to drill the current tank. In my mind I envision using the pf-800 for a 1" sipon, and the pf-1800 (dual 1½") for the open channel and emergency. That way some flow is going through each to prevent air entering the u-bends. This is not meant to be a permanent/perfect solution, I will be moving up into the 100-200gal range when I'm no longer in a rental.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[Mr.Tan]

A small trickle is exactly what you want.

Just to be clear, do you have a valve setup on your siphon, and you've "tuned" that drain according?

But it sounds like yours is set up perfect with a small trickle in pipe #2.

perfect. I do have a gate valve on the siphon pipe for adjustments. I seem to notice the level in the overflow box fluctuates sometimes and will either have some water trickling or nothing at all.


:thumbsup:

 

[bohrio]

Ok so a year after my first post in this thread the tank is finally here.

It took over 4 months to build due to me coming up with new design ideas, some parts being very difficult to find, etc... almost drove the guy crazy lol but it is finally here.

The tank is using a bean animal overflow, so there are 3 drains, 2 full siphon, and the emergency drain.

The overflow looks like this, all drains are 32 mm (1.5 inches)

Note that the 2nd siphon is not finished, in fact, nothing is really finished as such as I still have to fill up the tank and do a flow test etc. It was testing in the shop and worked great, not a sound at all and running at around 7000 lph.

The drains come down in a straight angle, I believe this is the best way to prevent air bubbles in the pipes.

A picture from behind showing the drain pipes, please be aware that the pipes have not been cut properly and that they will not be so close to the bottom of the sump, I will cut them after I fill the sump with water and do a full flow test. Same goes for the position/length of the emergency drain (3rd from the left).





If you see any potentials flows that could be fixed let me know please

By the way, I wasnt too comfortable using a C2C drain without a weird of some sort so we came up with the below design, basically a removable weird that leaves no space for my jawfish etc to jump through!



I really hope it works well.

So I am about to put the return pipes together and I want to make sure I am not missing something or doing something wrong.

Some time ago I was worried about teeing the return to feed a refugium, reactor, UV etc but after chatting with Doc I decided to go ahead and do it as my pump can handle more than enough flow. But things have changed slightly now flow-wise.

Ideally the sump/tank flow will be around 5000-6000 lph (the tank is around 180 gallons or 626 liters)

So at first I was going to have a refugium but after a bit of research I decided to go and use a algae scrubber instead, it will go into the sump as soon as Bud has his new turbo L4 ready! That should be around spring . I believe the scrubber will need quite a bit of flow, around 2000 lph, plus I also have to feed the UV light (650 to 1000 lph) plus and another output for something like fluid. reactor etc. The pump total output is 12000 lph so ~6000+~2000+~1000 = ~9000 lph giving me around 3000 lph to spare, more or less.

So my doubt is whether this much flow will cause issues with the overflow as it might need adjustments every now and then. I was hoping I would only need to adjust it when I am adding new equipment as in theory, if the pump is good enough flow variations should be minimum, or at least, nothing that the second siphone cannot handle.

This is the current design,



So what do you recon? I suppose I could always try this and if it doesnt work remove it.

Both bean animal overflow and algae scrubbers and not usual in Ireland (not even sure if there are any) so I am really looking forward to it. Even the cabinet design which is based on the rocketengineer design is quite new here.

Thanks!