Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[WickedBear]

Is there somewhere I can find a standard placement of the dimensions for all cuts/holes for a 40BR? I don't trust myself to make these measurements appropriately.

I went through hundreds of these pages already lol

 

[Aquamechanic]

Anyone have any input on previous posted question re: BA style drain with remote location ....

I have a scenario that I would appreciate reefers chime in on.

I am building a 130 gallon reef setup that will incorporate beananimal style overflow. It has a Sicce hf 16 return from a basement located sump. The sump is 25 feet lateral to the aquarium and a 12' rise from sump bottom to top of aquarium. Expected flow is about 1000 gph. It has a 1" siphon and drain setup with the gate very close to the end of the siphon line (again: 25 feet away and 12' drop)

What problems do you foresee if any?

Thx

 

[SpikeDangles]

Yes I'm doing external overflow. Just wondering if the dual 90's will work for the open channel.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Yes I'm doing external overflow. Just wondering if the dual 90's will work for the open channel.

Yes it will. If your drains are within an internal box or external box and exits thru the bottom, you don't need the tee fittings BA used.

You also don't need an air hose on the OC, just a hole. As the water level rises (siphon blocked), the hole will become submerged and the OC will become a siphon. This usually makes lots of noise calling your attention to the problem.

You'll want to put two elbows or street ells on the siphon. If it is fitting-less it could make more noise. With the 'U' of two ells it will always suck from underwater. :dance:

Don't glue the plumbing inside the OF to the bulkheads. You'll need to be able to remove them to clean.

 

[ReefPharmer]

Not sure if this has been answered but I won't have easy access to the back of the tank to tune in the gate valve. Can I install the valve on the bottom of the siphon pipe, near the sump ? Let's say it's 6 inches from the water line

 

[Johnseye]

Anyone have any input on previous posted question re: BA style drain with remote location ....



Thx

I question whether that pump can give you the necessary flow. How many 90s, 45s, splits, etc? 25 ft of horizontal and 12ft vertical is a long distance. Have you calculated your head loss?

 

[jason2459]

Not sure if this has been answered but I won't have easy access to the back of the tank to tune in the gate valve. Can I install the valve on the bottom of the siphon pipe, near the sump ? Let's say it's 6 inches from the water line

Yes

 

[rovster]

Not sure if this has been answered but I won't have easy access to the back of the tank to tune in the gate valve. Can I install the valve on the bottom of the siphon pipe, near the sump ? Let's say it's 6 inches from the water line

Mine is like that. Below the gate valve that section of pipe is removable and I remove it to slide a filter sock holder underneath it routinely. Never had issues with mine.

 

[sea of cortez]

I have a new external bean animal setup and the problem I am having is the full siphon wont start or restart unless I pull the 90 out of the bulkhead to get the flow started and push the air out of the drain line
The open channel flows fine there doesn't seem to be any flow on the full siphon at all unless I pull the 90's out of the bulkhead
It seems as if the two 90's that make the U has a air lock that wont push through

 

[sea of cortez]

Solved the problem
The outlet on the full siphon was about 2 inches below the water level in the sump, I shortened it to about 3/4 of a inch and now it works fine with out having to pull the 90's to get the flow started

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Has anyone tried doing a Bean Animal with 2" plumbing?

 

[sleepydoc]

I'm pretty sure I've seen it done, but I have to ask why you are interested? a 2" siphon will run on the order of 8000 gallons per hour - there aren't many systems that need that kind of flow. If you oversize the bulkheads and run lower flows you may run into startup problems.

 

[rickztahone]

I was going to pm Uncle directly but see he hasn't been on since last year. My question is kind of simple, I am adding an external overflow box for a BA setup on the side of my tank which just happens to be 12" (11.5" considering the glass thickness). I can possibly fit 1" pvc in this section by squeezing them in all together, but my concern is drilling the glass to accommodate those 3 bulkheads since they will be in close proximity to one another. If it was acrylic, I would feel a lot better about it, but seeing as it is glass, not sure I am willing to risk it.

So, my question is, if I run 3/4" pvc in the outer overflow box, would this work the same as 1" just scaled down? Will I get a lot of noise from a setup with 3/4" plumbing in the overflow box? I can always expand it below the bulkhead going to the sump.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S., no I cannot put the overflow box in the back, the side is already drilled in this tank.

 

[Settings]

Looking for some direction:
My current build can be found here The Nautilus 140 Build

I am building a 140g peninsula aquarium. The outter overflow box measures 19" wide, 9 inches tall and 4 inches deep.

The inner overflow bos measures 19" wide, 8" tall and 1" deep.

The holes connecting the two boxes are 1 1/2".

The bulkheads are 1" and there are 4 of them. The forth I was going to use as my return.

My questions are:

• Should I use 1 1/2" pipes down stream of the bulkheads? I am ok will less than 1000gph flow
• Should I use 1" or 1 1/2" pipes up stream of the bulkheads?
• For the return, I am using a 1" pipe all the way to the external box where I was planning on using a Y connector (located inside the external box) to reduce to 1/2" which will exit the sides of the external box to two holes drilled in the back of the tank on either side of the external box. I wanted to put two hole in the Y connector to act as a siphon break for the return line once the external box emptied out. Does this sound workable?

one last Q! The tank currently has euro bracing, it's built using 1/2 or 12mm glass. Should I remove this bracing?

Thanks all

 

[shiftline]

I apologize if this has been asked in the previous 350 posts... but on the secondary slightly higher drain there is the john geist with RO drilled in.. from my understanding the hose sits above the water line... when water rises it blocks the RO tube and creates a full siphon..

Why not just drill a hole in the top.? whats the purposes of the extra long/bulky fitting/hose on it?


Also is there any real benefit to using the T pipe rather than just using 2x90's (assuming your bulk head is on the bottom)?

 

[sleepydoc]

I was going to pm Uncle directly but see he hasn't been on since last year. My question is kind of simple, I am adding an external overflow box for a BA setup on the side of my tank which just happens to be 12" (11.5" considering the glass thickness). I can possibly fit 1" pvc in this section by squeezing them in all together, but my concern is drilling the glass to accommodate those 3 bulkheads since they will be in close proximity to one another. If it was acrylic, I would feel a lot better about it, but seeing as it is glass, not sure I am willing to risk it.

So, my question is, if I run 3/4" pvc in the outer overflow box, would this work the same as 1" just scaled down? Will I get a lot of noise from a setup with 3/4" plumbing in the overflow box? I can always expand it below the bulkhead going to the sump.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S., no I cannot put the overflow box in the back, the side is already drilled in this tank.

Just to make sure I understand -
You're adding an external overflow box to the end of your tank that will be 12" long. (I assume you have an internal weir in the tank with some holes for water to flow into the box) You're looking at drilling 3 holes in the bottom of the overflow box but are concerned about the proximity of the holes and so are considering using 3/4" plumbing instead of 1". Correct?

The general guideline for holes clearance is 1.5 diameters between glass edges with 1 diameter being the minimum. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23227315) For 3 holes placed side by side, the overflow box would ideally be 9x the diameter in length (minimum 7x,) and 4x the diameter in width (minimum 3x.)

A 1" bulkhead needs a 1.65" hole and a 3/4" bulkhead needs a 1.3" hole. Using these dimensions you have an ideal box length of 14.85" (minimum 11.55",) and an ideal width of 6.6" (minimum 4.95") for 1" plumbing, and 11.7" (9.1") in length & 5.2" (3.9") in width for 3/4" plumbing.

How much flow will you have? A 1" siphon can theoretically handle about 2000 GPH. A 3/4" pipe close is closer to 1300 GPH. The bigger issue will come with the open channel pipe. It essentially works as a durso, providing a range of flow over which the system operates silently and therefore determines the extent to which the system can auto adjust. A 3/4" durso has a much smaller capacity than a 1" one does. If the size is a concern you may consider having the open channel pipe 1" and the other two 3/4". You could also have 3/4" bulkheads and then upsize the pipe.

Another option would be to make an acrylic overflow box. You would have to use bulkheads and a gasket to clamp it onto the tank, but you wouldn't have to worry as much about the clearances.

 

[rickztahone]

Just to make sure I understand -
You're adding an external overflow box to the end of your tank that will be 12" long. (I assume you have an internal weir in the tank with some holes for water to flow into the box) You're looking at drilling 3 holes in the bottom of the overflow box but are concerned about the proximity of the holes and so are considering using 3/4" plumbing instead of 1". Correct?

The general guideline for holes clearance is 1.5 diameters between glass edges with 1 diameter being the minimum. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23227315) For 3 holes placed side by side, the overflow box would ideally be 9x the diameter in length (minimum 7x,) and 4x the diameter in width (minimum 3x.)

A 1" bulkhead needs a 1.65" hole and a 3/4" bulkhead needs a 1.3" hole. Using these dimensions you have an ideal box length of 14.85" (minimum 11.55",) and an ideal width of 6.6" (minimum 4.95") for 1" plumbing, and 11.7" (9.1") in length & 5.2" (3.9") in width for 3/4" plumbing.

How much flow will you have? A 1" siphon can theoretically handle about 2000 GPH. A 3/4" pipe close is closer to 1300 GPH. The bigger issue will come with the open channel pipe. It essentially works as a durso, providing a range of flow over which the system operates silently and therefore determines the extent to which the system can auto adjust. A 3/4" durso has a much smaller capacity than a 1" one does. If the size is a concern you may consider having the open channel pipe 1" and the other two 3/4". You could also have 3/4" bulkheads and then upsize the pipe.

Another option would be to make an acrylic overflow box. You would have to use bulkheads and a gasket to clamp it onto the tank, but you wouldn't have to worry as much about the clearances.

All very good points, and I really appreciate the specs being factored out. I believe you got what I was trying to say, but just in case, I am basically making an external overflow box on the side of my 22g tank 36x12x12". I was planning on extending the external overflow box about 6 inches to accommodate the plumbing, but am limited to the 12" in depth due to the tank itself. Basically like an AIO, but outside of the tank, rather than inside. I will be cutting the glass, and drilling the holes myself. I foresee myself possibly failing to be able to successfully drill the holes so close to each other. However, my thought process around this was the following:

Take a larger piece of glass than I am actually going to use as the bottom pane. Drill the three holes accordingly, and THEN score and cut the glass after I have already drilled the holes. The bottom pane will be fully supported by the stand itself which will extend all the way to support the outer overflow box. So, I am assuming that once the 3 holes are drilled, I should be clear to use the drilled holes without having to worry about them failing somehow?

I hope I am being clear here. I hate that I am not good at sketchup. Either way, I currently have a BA setup on my 75g tank. I know the principals of the system, but didn't know if downsizing down from 1" would be logical or even practical. Keep in mind, this will be a smaller tank and probably will not need a lot of flow. 30g sump, and will more than likely run an Eheim 1250 which puts nowhere near the 1,300gph you provided earlier.

Thanks again for your help. It was your help and Uncle's that got me through my 75g build. All of it was custom DIY from cutting/welding/plans...etc. It has been running over 6 months now with no problems:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3HK4TBUB4Oo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sleepydoc]

Looking for some direction:
My current build can be found here The Nautilus 140 Build

I am building a 140g peninsula aquarium. The outter overflow box measures 19" wide, 9 inches tall and 4 inches deep.

The inner overflow bos measures 19" wide, 8" tall and 1" deep.

The holes connecting the two boxes are 1 1/2".

The bulkheads are 1" and there are 4 of them. The forth I was going to use as my return.

My questions are:

• Should I use 1 1/2" pipes down stream of the bulkheads? I am ok will less than 1000gph flow
• Should I use 1" or 1 1/2" pipes up stream of the bulkheads?
• For the return, I am using a 1" pipe all the way to the external box where I was planning on using a Y connector (located inside the external box) to reduce to 1/2" which will exit the sides of the external box to two holes drilled in the back of the tank on either side of the external box. I wanted to put two hole in the Y connector to act as a siphon break for the return line once the external box emptied out. Does this sound workable?

one last Q! The tank currently has euro bracing, it's built using 1/2 or 12mm glass. Should I remove this bracing?

Thanks all

1" pipe will easily handle 1000 gph, but a larger pipe is easier to clean and less likely to trap snails and other critters. Also, the open channel would probably be better with a larger pipe (See my reply to Rickztahone.) Another factor - 1 1/2" gate valves are significantly more expensive than 1 or 1.25", if that makes a difference. I'd probably upsize the open channel and leave the others at 1"

For the return pipe I'd consider up sizing to 1.25" - much lower resistance. If you get the flow you want with 1" that would be fine, though. The holes may work as a siphon break, but can cause problems depending on their location. If they're above the water surface they may suck air in causing bubbles in the tank. If they're below the surface, they can get occluded by snails, etc. A better route is to position the outlets of the return pipe close to the surface and size the sump large enough such that it can hold any water that back siphons before the water level in the display drops enough to break the siphon in its own.

Do not remove the eurobracing. It is there for a reason.

 

[sleepydoc]

I apologize if this has been asked in the previous 350 posts... but on the secondary slightly higher drain there is the john geist with RO drilled in.. from my understanding the hose sits above the water line... when water rises it blocks the RO tube and creates a full siphon..

Why not just drill a hole in the top.? whats the purposes of the extra long/bulky fitting/hose on it?


Also is there any real benefit to using the T pipe rather than just using 2x90's (assuming your bulk head is on the bottom)?

For external overflows with the pipes running through the bottom of the overflow box some people do have a hole in the top of an inverted U for the open channel, so that it gets occluded when the water level rises. For a internal box with holes in the back of the tank like Bean's original design that won't necessarily work.

Also, the startup sequence generally requires that the water rise up to the level of the emergency pipe and stay there long enough to purge the air in the full siphon channel. If the open channel converts to a siphon too early and drains the overflow box before the siphon channel can fully purge the air you may have startup issues

 

[sleepydoc]

All very good points, and I really appreciate the specs being factored out. I believe you got what I was trying to say, but just in case, I am basically making an external overflow box on the side of my 22g tank 36x12x12". I was planning on extending the external overflow box about 6 inches to accommodate the plumbing, but am limited to the 12" in depth due to the tank itself. Basically like an AIO, but outside of the tank, rather than inside. I will be cutting the glass, and drilling the holes myself. I foresee myself possibly failing to be able to successfully drill the holes so close to each other. However, my thought process around this was the following:

Take a larger piece of glass than I am actually going to use as the bottom pane. Drill the three holes accordingly, and THEN score and cut the glass after I have already drilled the holes. The bottom pane will be fully supported by the stand itself which will extend all the way to support the outer overflow box. So, I am assuming that once the 3 holes are drilled, I should be clear to use the drilled holes without having to worry about them failing somehow?

I hope I am being clear here. I hate that I am not good at sketchup. Either way, I currently have a BA setup on my 75g tank. I know the principals of the system, but didn't know if downsizing down from 1" would be logical or even practical. Keep in mind, this will be a smaller tank and probably will not need a lot of flow. 30g sump, and will more than likely run an Eheim 1250 which puts nowhere near the 1,300gph you provided earlier.

Thanks again for your help. It was your help and Uncle's that got me through my 75g build. All of it was custom DIY from cutting/welding/plans...etc. It has been running over 6 months now with no problems:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3HK4TBUB4Oo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No, for a 22gallon tank it would be fine. For that size tank, you may be better off just doing a durso or a Herbie. Keep in mind that any wiggling of the pipes will move the bulkheads and cause stress on the glass. For an overflow box you don't have the same stresses you do no a full tank, so going closer to 1 diameter between holes would probably be fine, but you don't want to push things.