Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

rickztahone said:
I was going to pm Uncle directly but see he hasn't been on since last year. My question is kind of simple, I am adding an external overflow box for a BA setup on the side of my tank which just happens to be 12" (11.5" considering the glass thickness). I can possibly fit 1" pvc in this section by squeezing them in all together, but my concern is drilling the glass to accommodate those 3 bulkheads since they will be in close proximity to one another. If it was acrylic, I would feel a lot better about it, but seeing as it is glass, not sure I am willing to risk it.

So, my question is, if I run 3/4" pvc in the outer overflow box, would this work the same as 1" just scaled down? Will I get a lot of noise from a setup with 3/4" plumbing in the overflow box? I can always expand it below the bulkhead going to the sump.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S., no I cannot put the overflow box in the back, the side is already drilled in this tank.
Click to expand...


Just to make sure I understand -
You're adding an external overflow box to the end of your tank that will be 12" long. (I assume you have an internal weir in the tank with some holes for water to flow into the box) You're looking at drilling 3 holes in the bottom of the overflow box but are concerned about the proximity of the holes and so are considering using 3/4" plumbing instead of 1". Correct?

The general guideline for holes clearance is 1.5 diameters between glass edges with 1 diameter being the minimum. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23227315) For 3 holes placed side by side, the overflow box would ideally be 9x the diameter in length (minimum 7x,) and 4x the diameter in width (minimum 3x.)

A 1" bulkhead needs a 1.65" hole and a 3/4" bulkhead needs a 1.3" hole. Using these dimensions you have an ideal box length of 14.85" (minimum 11.55",) and an ideal width of 6.6" (minimum 4.95") for 1" plumbing, and 11.7" (9.1") in length & 5.2" (3.9") in width for 3/4" plumbing.

How much flow will you have? A 1" siphon can theoretically handle about 2000 GPH. A 3/4" pipe close is closer to 1300 GPH. The bigger issue will come with the open channel pipe. It essentially works as a durso, providing a range of flow over which the system operates silently and therefore determines the extent to which the system can auto adjust. A 3/4" durso has a much smaller capacity than a 1" one does. If the size is a concern you may consider having the open channel pipe 1" and the other two 3/4". You could also have 3/4" bulkheads and then upsize the pipe.

Another option would be to make an acrylic overflow box. You would have to use bulkheads and a gasket to clamp it onto the tank, but you wouldn't have to worry as much about the clearances.
 
sleepydoc said:
Just to make sure I understand -
You're adding an external overflow box to the end of your tank that will be 12" long. (I assume you have an internal weir in the tank with some holes for water to flow into the box) You're looking at drilling 3 holes in the bottom of the overflow box but are concerned about the proximity of the holes and so are considering using 3/4" plumbing instead of 1". Correct?

The general guideline for holes clearance is 1.5 diameters between glass edges with 1 diameter being the minimum. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23227315) For 3 holes placed side by side, the overflow box would ideally be 9x the diameter in length (minimum 7x,) and 4x the diameter in width (minimum 3x.)

A 1" bulkhead needs a 1.65" hole and a 3/4" bulkhead needs a 1.3" hole. Using these dimensions you have an ideal box length of 14.85" (minimum 11.55",) and an ideal width of 6.6" (minimum 4.95") for 1" plumbing, and 11.7" (9.1") in length & 5.2" (3.9") in width for 3/4" plumbing.

How much flow will you have? A 1" siphon can theoretically handle about 2000 GPH. A 3/4" pipe close is closer to 1300 GPH. The bigger issue will come with the open channel pipe. It essentially works as a durso, providing a range of flow over which the system operates silently and therefore determines the extent to which the system can auto adjust. A 3/4" durso has a much smaller capacity than a 1" one does. If the size is a concern you may consider having the open channel pipe 1" and the other two 3/4". You could also have 3/4" bulkheads and then upsize the pipe.

Another option would be to make an acrylic overflow box. You would have to use bulkheads and a gasket to clamp it onto the tank, but you wouldn't have to worry as much about the clearances.
Click to expand...

All very good points, and I really appreciate the specs being factored out. I believe you got what I was trying to say, but just in case, I am basically making an external overflow box on the side of my 22g tank 36x12x12". I was planning on extending the external overflow box about 6 inches to accommodate the plumbing, but am limited to the 12" in depth due to the tank itself. Basically like an AIO, but outside of the tank, rather than inside. I will be cutting the glass, and drilling the holes myself. I foresee myself possibly failing to be able to successfully drill the holes so close to each other. However, my thought process around this was the following:

Take a larger piece of glass than I am actually going to use as the bottom pane. Drill the three holes accordingly, and THEN score and cut the glass after I have already drilled the holes. The bottom pane will be fully supported by the stand itself which will extend all the way to support the outer overflow box. So, I am assuming that once the 3 holes are drilled, I should be clear to use the drilled holes without having to worry about them failing somehow?

I hope I am being clear here. I hate that I am not good at sketchup. Either way, I currently have a BA setup on my 75g tank. I know the principals of the system, but didn't know if downsizing down from 1" would be logical or even practical. Keep in mind, this will be a smaller tank and probably will not need a lot of flow. 30g sump, and will more than likely run an Eheim 1250 which puts nowhere near the 1,300gph you provided earlier.

Thanks again for your help. It was your help and Uncle's that got me through my 75g build. All of it was custom DIY from cutting/welding/plans...etc. It has been running over 6 months now with no problems:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3HK4TBUB4Oo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Settings said:
Looking for some direction:
My current build can be found here The Nautilus 140 Build

I am building a 140g peninsula aquarium. The outter overflow box measures 19" wide, 9 inches tall and 4 inches deep.

The inner overflow bos measures 19" wide, 8" tall and 1" deep.

The holes connecting the two boxes are 1 1/2".

The bulkheads are 1" and there are 4 of them. The forth I was going to use as my return.

My questions are:
  • Should I use 1 1/2" pipes down stream of the bulkheads? I am ok will less than 1000gph flow
  • Should I use 1" or 1 1/2" pipes up stream of the bulkheads?
  • For the return, I am using a 1" pipe all the way to the external box where I was planning on using a Y connector (located inside the external box) to reduce to 1/2" which will exit the sides of the external box to two holes drilled in the back of the tank on either side of the external box. I wanted to put two hole in the Y connector to act as a siphon break for the return line once the external box emptied out. Does this sound workable?




one last Q! The tank currently has euro bracing, it's built using 1/2 or 12mm glass. Should I remove this bracing?

Thanks all
Click to expand...

1" pipe will easily handle 1000 gph, but a larger pipe is easier to clean and less likely to trap snails and other critters. Also, the open channel would probably be better with a larger pipe (See my reply to Rickztahone.) Another factor - 1 1/2" gate valves are significantly more expensive than 1 or 1.25", if that makes a difference. I'd probably upsize the open channel and leave the others at 1"

For the return pipe I'd consider up sizing to 1.25" - much lower resistance. If you get the flow you want with 1" that would be fine, though. The holes may work as a siphon break, but can cause problems depending on their location. If they're above the water surface they may suck air in causing bubbles in the tank. If they're below the surface, they can get occluded by snails, etc. A better route is to position the outlets of the return pipe close to the surface and size the sump large enough such that it can hold any water that back siphons before the water level in the display drops enough to break the siphon in its own.

Do not remove the eurobracing. It is there for a reason.
 
shiftline said:
I apologize if this has been asked in the previous 350 posts... but on the secondary slightly higher drain there is the john geist with RO drilled in.. from my understanding the hose sits above the water line... when water rises it blocks the RO tube and creates a full siphon..

Why not just drill a hole in the top.? whats the purposes of the extra long/bulky fitting/hose on it?


Also is there any real benefit to using the T pipe rather than just using 2x90's (assuming your bulk head is on the bottom)?
Click to expand...

For external overflows with the pipes running through the bottom of the overflow box some people do have a hole in the top of an inverted U for the open channel, so that it gets occluded when the water level rises. For a internal box with holes in the back of the tank like Bean's original design that won't necessarily work.

Also, the startup sequence generally requires that the water rise up to the level of the emergency pipe and stay there long enough to purge the air in the full siphon channel. If the open channel converts to a siphon too early and drains the overflow box before the siphon channel can fully purge the air you may have startup issues
 
rickztahone said:
All very good points, and I really appreciate the specs being factored out. I believe you got what I was trying to say, but just in case, I am basically making an external overflow box on the side of my 22g tank 36x12x12". I was planning on extending the external overflow box about 6 inches to accommodate the plumbing, but am limited to the 12" in depth due to the tank itself. Basically like an AIO, but outside of the tank, rather than inside. I will be cutting the glass, and drilling the holes myself. I foresee myself possibly failing to be able to successfully drill the holes so close to each other. However, my thought process around this was the following:

Take a larger piece of glass than I am actually going to use as the bottom pane. Drill the three holes accordingly, and THEN score and cut the glass after I have already drilled the holes. The bottom pane will be fully supported by the stand itself which will extend all the way to support the outer overflow box. So, I am assuming that once the 3 holes are drilled, I should be clear to use the drilled holes without having to worry about them failing somehow?

I hope I am being clear here. I hate that I am not good at sketchup. Either way, I currently have a BA setup on my 75g tank. I know the principals of the system, but didn't know if downsizing down from 1" would be logical or even practical. Keep in mind, this will be a smaller tank and probably will not need a lot of flow. 30g sump, and will more than likely run an Eheim 1250 which puts nowhere near the 1,300gph you provided earlier.

Thanks again for your help. It was your help and Uncle's that got me through my 75g build. All of it was custom DIY from cutting/welding/plans...etc. It has been running over 6 months now with no problems:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3HK4TBUB4Oo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...

No, for a 22gallon tank it would be fine. For that size tank, you may be better off just doing a durso or a Herbie. Keep in mind that any wiggling of the pipes will move the bulkheads and cause stress on the glass. For an overflow box you don't have the same stresses you do no a full tank, so going closer to 1 diameter between holes would probably be fine, but you don't want to push things.
 
I am wanting to make a coast to coast over flow out of glass. The tank is a 24 x 24 x 24. I have a few questions. I plan on making a interior coast to coast overflow, drill 2 bulkheads and then make a exterior overflow box for the 3 drains to the sump. The reason why I am making a box outside of the tank is because I don't want a 3-4" overflow box inside the tank for the bulkheads and elbows.



1. What size should the interior overflow be? I was thinking 23 1/2" L x 5 3/4" T x 1 3/8" deep.



2. How L x W X T should the exterior overflow box be?



3. How thick of glass do I need for the interior AND exterior overflow boxes?



4. What size bulkheads should I use. I probably run a 1,200 GPH pump....

5. Should the weir be angled or straight up and down? If it's angled would it be less noise?
 
C Dog said:
I am wanting to make a coast to coast over flow out of glass. The tank is a 24 x 24 x 24. I have a few questions. I plan on making a interior coast to coast overflow, drill 2 bulkheads and then make a exterior overflow box for the 3 drains to the sump. The reason why I am making a box outside of the tank is because I don't want a 3-4" overflow box inside the tank for the bulkheads and elbows.



1. What size should the interior overflow be? I was thinking 23 1/2" L x 5 3/4" T x 1 3/8" deep.
Click to expand...
Long enough to be a coast to coast. The height depends on where your holes are drilled. The depth should be enough that you can get in to clean it and/or attach any bulkheads you may need.
C Dog said:
2. How L x W X T should the exterior overflow box be?
Click to expand...
Wide and tall enough to contain your plumbing, wide & deep enough to let you drill the holes without the glass cracking (3~4x hole diameter deep, 7-9x diameter wide
C Dog said:
3. How thick of glass do I need for the interior AND exterior overflow boxes?
Click to expand...
¼"/6mm is usually sufficient.
C Dog said:
4. What size bulkheads should I use. I probably run a 1,200 GPH pump....
Click to expand...
1" is plenty for the siphon channel but 1 ¼" might be better for the open channel
C Dog said:
5. Should the weir be angled or straight up and down? If it's angled would it be less noise?
Click to expand...
Either
 
With an external overflow box that has all holes drilled in the bottom and has returns coming up through the bottom too does everyone glue the returns into the slip bulkheads and leave the drain pipes up top loose? Can I get away with not glueing the returns into the bulkheads? They fit in there pretty tight.
 
Started prepping mine :)
91f8549238be002cc85a3d18d190463f.jpg
 
ClownsRCoo said:
With an external overflow box that has all holes drilled in the bottom and has returns coming up through the bottom too does everyone glue the returns into the slip bulkheads and leave the drain pipes up top loose? Can I get away with not glueing the returns into the bulkheads? They fit in there pretty tight.
Click to expand...


General rule is to glue any fitting that causes a problem if it leaks. The only concern with the internal fittings leaking is that they may allow more water to drain down to the sump, essentially emptying the entire box. If your sump can handle that then it should be fine.
 
On my other tanks I don't normally glue the drain pipes into the inside of the box. On this new tank I should have plenty of room too to be able to drain the overflow into the sump as well. I have never had the returns go up and through the overflow like this as well and wasn't sure if gluing them was a must. I fed don't want them to come shooting off. I wasn't sure how much pressure these hobby pumps out out anyway on the plumbing. After it gets all the way to the return bulkheads I wouldn't imagine it's much. The plumbing takes some finessing to get in there right and I'm worried the cement will set before I can get them positioned just right.
 
ClownsRCoo said:
With an external overflow box that has all holes drilled in the bottom and has returns coming up through the bottom too does everyone glue the returns into the slip bulkheads and leave the drain pipes up top loose? Can I get away with not glueing the returns into the bulkheads? They fit in there pretty tight.
Click to expand...

I would not glue in the returns.
 
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

I got 1 of the drains dry fitted. Does this look too restrictive?


 
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