skimmer choice?
- Thread starter labatt
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normanviking
New member
any links to that skimmer company?
gcarroll
Active member
My interpretation of hahnmeister's comment was that his recommendation was based on the 75 gallon tank size. It looks like he shares the beleif of many that needle wheel pumps are more efficient at skimming smaller tanks.
As for becketts, the Barr Aquatics is the king of the hill. I hear good things about build quality although I think they are a little over-engineered. But the price is so nice it's hard to say no to the added bells and whistles.
normanviking
New member
LOL, thanks for your input Greg. I just wanted make sure I was reading right, Dan
mburnickas
New member
Could do that but the Ev-120 with the 1260 will kill the ASM.
I get about 3/4 cup of junk out per day on my Ev-120.
ok, so any more comments on Ev-120 w/ehiem 1260? So far that seems to be my choice since its seems that most of you think it would be pretty good, and having to mod something when its new annoys me(the asm) p.s. due to space restrictions this will most likely be my only reef tank until I move, and that won't be for a loooong time.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
My comments before are ones I have expressed in the past but cant find off the top of my head right now...gosh...I really need a web page.
Anyways, the basic idea is this...methods that use pressure to induce the venturi principle (conservation of energy as a liquid is accelerated through a narrow opening to create a lower relative pressure or suction) include venturis (mazzei), becketts (Barr, Aerofoamer, MRC, PM, Trigger, etc), downdrafts (ETSS), and spray injection (AquaC). The problem with any system the uses pressure to 'suck in' bubbles is the back pressure that is created in the pump... and this back pressure is something that wastes electricity. With tanks up to about 300gallons, needlewheel skimmers can be run for under 100watts, easily. (BKs top out well under this) The advantage of a needlewheel is its inexpensive and simple method of sucking in both air and water and mechanically shredding the air to make a fine froth. Look at the wattage ratings on Deltecs and H&Ss, or even a Euroreef or ASM, or heck...the Bubblekings if you really want a low energy performer...40watts gives you all you need. But as these skimmers get larger, some get taller...but as they do, the drawback of needlewheels becomes obvious...they dont do as well with back-pressure. So rather than go taller, they also add on more pumps and get fatter than they do taller (except for the Oceanrunner pump on AquaMedic skimmers...an often overlooked solid performer in the category that proves a needlewheel can run a 6' tall skimmer if designed right). As they get fatter, and add on more pumps...the wattage often adds up (except for the Aquamedics and Bubblekings). That one needlewheel running at 60 watts just got multiplied by 3 or 4 for over 200 watts. Now that pump that you run the beckett with doesnt look so bad at 150-300 watts...but for tanks under 300g, these types of skimmers are just wasteful. And you cant go smaller easily...since as you go smaller in pumps, their pressure handling is even worse. A large 300 watt pump has a good deal of pressure it can dish out naturally...its what they are made for and how they move water, so it might only lose 10% or so of its output on back-pressure...but not so with a smaller pump. A 300gph eheim or powerhead FWIW, might lose more than half of its potential flow if used on a venturi (REMORA)...when that same pump used as a needlewheel could be making 3-4x as many bubbles if used as a needlewheel.
But when you get larger, like 300g on up...those becketts compare rather well (for the time being at least...until more large capacity BK style pumps like the needlewheel dart come out) on larger tanks. A beckett can easily blow a column of bubbles into a 6' tall skimmer tower with ease.
But for smaller tanks...lets just put it this way. That same eheim 1260 pump that you are using on that AquaC would get about 3x as many bubbles if used as a needlewheel. Just look at the ratings. FWIW, eheims arent very good with head pressure...they are too efficient and flow-oriented. Mags have better power curves. But a EV120 is good for up to what...a 120g maybe (mfg suggested max). But look at Deltecs rating on that same 52 watt pump (needlewheels use less than the rated wattage due to lower pressure than normal from the air in the needlewheel, spray/beckett/venturis use more than the regular rating due to back pressure so its not really even same wattages)...the deltec rates the 1260 powered AP701 at over double the rating of the AquaC. How? Efficiency of needlewheels.
When I suggest skimmers, I say that for anything under 300g, get a needlewheel. For over 300g, you can either DIY something, or if you have the money, look into a Royal Exclusiv Bubbleking, but if not, the becketts and their kin arent a bad idea at this size.
Anyways, the basic idea is this...methods that use pressure to induce the venturi principle (conservation of energy as a liquid is accelerated through a narrow opening to create a lower relative pressure or suction) include venturis (mazzei), becketts (Barr, Aerofoamer, MRC, PM, Trigger, etc), downdrafts (ETSS), and spray injection (AquaC). The problem with any system the uses pressure to 'suck in' bubbles is the back pressure that is created in the pump... and this back pressure is something that wastes electricity. With tanks up to about 300gallons, needlewheel skimmers can be run for under 100watts, easily. (BKs top out well under this) The advantage of a needlewheel is its inexpensive and simple method of sucking in both air and water and mechanically shredding the air to make a fine froth. Look at the wattage ratings on Deltecs and H&Ss, or even a Euroreef or ASM, or heck...the Bubblekings if you really want a low energy performer...40watts gives you all you need. But as these skimmers get larger, some get taller...but as they do, the drawback of needlewheels becomes obvious...they dont do as well with back-pressure. So rather than go taller, they also add on more pumps and get fatter than they do taller (except for the Oceanrunner pump on AquaMedic skimmers...an often overlooked solid performer in the category that proves a needlewheel can run a 6' tall skimmer if designed right). As they get fatter, and add on more pumps...the wattage often adds up (except for the Aquamedics and Bubblekings). That one needlewheel running at 60 watts just got multiplied by 3 or 4 for over 200 watts. Now that pump that you run the beckett with doesnt look so bad at 150-300 watts...but for tanks under 300g, these types of skimmers are just wasteful. And you cant go smaller easily...since as you go smaller in pumps, their pressure handling is even worse. A large 300 watt pump has a good deal of pressure it can dish out naturally...its what they are made for and how they move water, so it might only lose 10% or so of its output on back-pressure...but not so with a smaller pump. A 300gph eheim or powerhead FWIW, might lose more than half of its potential flow if used on a venturi (REMORA)...when that same pump used as a needlewheel could be making 3-4x as many bubbles if used as a needlewheel.
But when you get larger, like 300g on up...those becketts compare rather well (for the time being at least...until more large capacity BK style pumps like the needlewheel dart come out) on larger tanks. A beckett can easily blow a column of bubbles into a 6' tall skimmer tower with ease.
But for smaller tanks...lets just put it this way. That same eheim 1260 pump that you are using on that AquaC would get about 3x as many bubbles if used as a needlewheel. Just look at the ratings. FWIW, eheims arent very good with head pressure...they are too efficient and flow-oriented. Mags have better power curves. But a EV120 is good for up to what...a 120g maybe (mfg suggested max). But look at Deltecs rating on that same 52 watt pump (needlewheels use less than the rated wattage due to lower pressure than normal from the air in the needlewheel, spray/beckett/venturis use more than the regular rating due to back pressure so its not really even same wattages)...the deltec rates the 1260 powered AP701 at over double the rating of the AquaC. How? Efficiency of needlewheels.
When I suggest skimmers, I say that for anything under 300g, get a needlewheel. For over 300g, you can either DIY something, or if you have the money, look into a Royal Exclusiv Bubbleking, but if not, the becketts and their kin arent a bad idea at this size.
mburnickas
New member
I agree somewhat but the head pressure on the mags is lower then the Eheims.
For me, I had a AquaMedic and it sucked. I would never use needlewheel again. They I feel place you in a tunnel or get you where they want you. If they break (they do) then needlewheels are $$$$$$. I would rather replace a normal pump then a needle wheel.
Example. If you H&S pump breaks (1260 with special wheel) it is $300 for a new one (pump) since they need the special needlewheel. If the normal eheim 1260 pump on my Ev-120 breaks, a new normal wheel is like $80 or a complete new pump is $119; 60% cheaper pump here; but same watts. That, I like.
But it is pay now or pay down the road. I would rather use the money to my advantage here. If pump watts means anything then the Mags are for you. I tried a needle wheel OR2500 (33% less watts) on my Aquac and it sucked as bad as the Mag5. I also tried it with a normal wheel. Again too slow. It DID work on my AquaMedic but again that skimmer was slow. It I feel is also a cheap skimmer.
In 24 hours I can pull more stuff with my Ev-120 then 7 days with my old AquaMedic or 4 to 6 days on the ev-120 with the slow Mag5.
I think the EV-120 can handle a 150 gallon max, not 120. I personally do not think you can compare a bubbleking to a Aquamedic or AquaC. Look at the prices. Not even in the same ballpark here. There Red Dragon pump is like 57 watts and Eheim is more (65). Is not the bubbleking like $1000 for small and over $2,000 for over 300 gal tank?
The deltec that is most like my Ev-120 is the APH525 (external etc). Watts is 20 vis the Eheim 65watts. But the initial price is $615 for Deltec and $418 for my Ev-120 with 1260 pump. Or $197 savings or 32% less. The delta in watts is 394.2Kw MORE with the Eheim pump per year or 1.080 Kw more per day with the Eheim pump . At my current rate of 12 cents per Kw, it will take a LONG time to break even.
Case in point, watts is one thing to look at but so is, how easy to clean, what production you get out of it, physical size, etc etc.
Not knocking you at all. Good debate and too much coffee this am! LOL
For me, I had a AquaMedic and it sucked. I would never use needlewheel again. They I feel place you in a tunnel or get you where they want you. If they break (they do) then needlewheels are $$$$$$. I would rather replace a normal pump then a needle wheel.
Example. If you H&S pump breaks (1260 with special wheel) it is $300 for a new one (pump) since they need the special needlewheel. If the normal eheim 1260 pump on my Ev-120 breaks, a new normal wheel is like $80 or a complete new pump is $119; 60% cheaper pump here; but same watts. That, I like.
But it is pay now or pay down the road. I would rather use the money to my advantage here. If pump watts means anything then the Mags are for you. I tried a needle wheel OR2500 (33% less watts) on my Aquac and it sucked as bad as the Mag5. I also tried it with a normal wheel. Again too slow. It DID work on my AquaMedic but again that skimmer was slow. It I feel is also a cheap skimmer.
In 24 hours I can pull more stuff with my Ev-120 then 7 days with my old AquaMedic or 4 to 6 days on the ev-120 with the slow Mag5.
I think the EV-120 can handle a 150 gallon max, not 120. I personally do not think you can compare a bubbleking to a Aquamedic or AquaC. Look at the prices. Not even in the same ballpark here. There Red Dragon pump is like 57 watts and Eheim is more (65). Is not the bubbleking like $1000 for small and over $2,000 for over 300 gal tank?
The deltec that is most like my Ev-120 is the APH525 (external etc). Watts is 20 vis the Eheim 65watts. But the initial price is $615 for Deltec and $418 for my Ev-120 with 1260 pump. Or $197 savings or 32% less. The delta in watts is 394.2Kw MORE with the Eheim pump per year or 1.080 Kw more per day with the Eheim pump . At my current rate of 12 cents per Kw, it will take a LONG time to break even.
Case in point, watts is one thing to look at but so is, how easy to clean, what production you get out of it, physical size, etc etc.
Not knocking you at all. Good debate and too much coffee this am! LOL
normanviking
New member
LOL reading all this makes me want to go ahead for the Beckett. And for the dollar figures you guys are throwing out there, I would get a Barr Aquatics skimmer. The proof is in the pudding.
Jayreefer
New member
I would check out the pacific cost octopus line of skimmers. They are a recirculating skimmer that yuo don't have to mod. Waay better than the ASM with recirc. Also, they don't leak. Try www.reeftanksupply.com for prices.
fishaholic911
New member
I run a ASM g-2 on a fully stocked reef works great. Euro Reef works just as good but is built better.My Deltec rocks!!!!! My Aqua-c (mag pump) did not worked as well as my sea-clone.lol
fishaholic911
New member
ASM g-2 on a fully stocked 110 reef
mburnickas
New member
BINGO. I said the same thing. My AquaC with a Mag was poor. With a Eheim, it is about 10X better. For the 20 extra watts I will take it!
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robsmith32
New member
the eheim really doesn't pull that many watts when hooked through the ev... don't know the 1260, but the 1262 that is listed as 80 watts, pulls 51 watts when on my ev180.
and for you asm' lovers.. the ev180/eheim combo is in the section after the g3 and gives me 3 times the amount of skimmate. the eheim pump is also a lot quieter than that sedra.
as for eheim on a remora? that i think would be bit hard to pull off. for 1 you'd have to put the pump at bottom of the tank therefore not pulling in the water with the concentrated doc's.
The smallest deltec costs more than the ev180 with the eheim pump in what i've seen.
the comparison between the ev with eheim vs mag 5 and 7, is like deltec vs asm... except, the eheim will pay for itself after you have to replace the mag once.
And for what its worth you can really better your odds with the eheim impellar by changing out the $2.00 rod that holds the impellar every 2 years and avoiding the $80.00 impellar. THis from someone with eheim's in the field for 40 years.
and for you asm' lovers.. the ev180/eheim combo is in the section after the g3 and gives me 3 times the amount of skimmate. the eheim pump is also a lot quieter than that sedra.
as for eheim on a remora? that i think would be bit hard to pull off. for 1 you'd have to put the pump at bottom of the tank therefore not pulling in the water with the concentrated doc's.
The smallest deltec costs more than the ev180 with the eheim pump in what i've seen.
the comparison between the ev with eheim vs mag 5 and 7, is like deltec vs asm... except, the eheim will pay for itself after you have to replace the mag once.
And for what its worth you can really better your odds with the eheim impellar by changing out the $2.00 rod that holds the impellar every 2 years and avoiding the $80.00 impellar. THis from someone with eheim's in the field for 40 years.
fishaholic911
New member
My sedra pump made no noise at all. I can not see how you could get any quieter?
robsmith32
New member
didn't think so either till hooked up the ehiem... then i noticed how much the sedra made.
