Skimmerless Systems "Say I"

Just as with many things....there are many styles and mind-sets involved with how to do whatever it is..In the marine tank circle there's about a dozen different "acceptable" methodologies and each has its own merits(and drwbacks), but the ultimate answer to how to set up tank, starts with a question....What do you want do to with the tank? A highly filtered and skimmed tank is good for a FO system and a closed DSB is good for a invert only tank....While we all have our specific opinions and experiences, everyone else has theirs...and even some are contradictory, yet both seem to flourish in their selected use. I say do what has been working....messing with a system, ie adding/removing equpment only throws it out of whack...the best way I have found ist get it running and leave it alone(aside from basic maint.). Tweaking a tank only takes it longer to balance out and get happy...
Well as to the poll...I have a skimmer, but its in the pile of various fish equipment in the garage...Maybe I'll use it on a new tank, but its something else to plug in and tune....I'll probably leave it to gather dust.
 
Pardon me if i stir things up here. This kind of thread scares me as bad advice.

Why? I think the whole 'skimmerless' fad is a great feel-good spin on nutrient export.

So correct me where I'm wrong here, but I believe I'm right on target. (Go figure ;) )

'Skimmerless' is merely referring to a system in which no skimmer is used for nutrient export. My unsubstantiated opinion is that the only really successful long term skimmerless reef systems esentially export excess nutrients by pruning/removing macroalgae. (And an 'Ecosystem' or 'ATS' is essentially only that.)

Is there any proof, and I do mean an impartial non-anecdotal analysis, that the mere elimination of a skimmer HELPS anything (other than infauna, which a refugium can provide, and is perhaps more focused on providing better.)

I submit, for your discussion, that the skimmerless fad is nothing but folks embracing the fact that they have limited their nutrient export tools, and that the ones that fail, are ones in which their macroalgae pruning is insufficient to keep up with their export needs.

I'm interested in why we should encourage folks to limit the tools in their arsenal. All those critters in the sand bed's need Oxygen too. Are we forgetting a skimmer's role in adding Oxygen to water? Or how it can remove excess CO2 from a Calcium Reactor, or help keep PH higher?

I'm all for the natural approach. We should include it in our strategy. But these glass boxes of water are a long way from being oceans. Think of skimmers simulating the froth of the waves.

Just my opinion. Now, I'll don my Kevlar suit.
 
Last edited:
Hi Monty,

Yes, I know there are tons of things I need to know about Deep Sandbeds, Refugiums, water circulation & lighting. I've been reading everything I can on reef tanks for the last year or so before I even decided to seriously get into it and give it a try. To make myself feel better about this experiment of setting up a reef tank I am going to build it entirely on captive bred & aquacultured creatures, rock & sand. But since I've just recently come onboard to RC I've been reading about the skimmerless method combined with the DSB & Berlin Method. It is in direct opposition to what all the books say (even the recent ones) but I do understand the concept of the skimmer pulling out phytoplankton and zooplankton before the corals and other things can get hold of it. what I'm most worroied about is the 'break in/die off period' because I intend to use uncured live rock (either gulf view and/or TBS) and I have read that curing rock can get pretty nasty.

I also know much of patience, being a big fan of the Japanese style nature aquariums (and having a house full of them) where the plants are used as filtration and filters are just used basically as water circulating devices. I'm used to making myself maintain low bioload tanks and allowing nature to stabilize itself. My 75 gallon which is intended for the reef at one time housed a whopping 4, 2" killifish. :D

I'm interested to read more about the skimmerless theory and how to maintain the tank during it's "ugly" cycle.
 
I have went skimmerless last month.
One because it wasn't pulling much out and 2nd, i added a 20gal refugium w/ 6" DSB and lots of macroalgae.

Before all this, my nitrate used to be in 20-40ppm.
Now, it is 0ppm.
i still have the skimmer in their just in case but not turned on.

The best way is to follow what i did.
During the initial set up, use the skimmer and when yu set up the refugium(w/ DSB and macros), wait til the skimmer collects not much of the waste. You can then pull out the skimmer.
 
Is there any doubt why newbies go nuts trying to figure this hobby out? One thread will be debating the "best" skimmer, most powerful skimmer to buy, and the next thread will be telling newbies that they don't need a skimmer.

For me, I hooked up my Bullet skimmer to my sump when I "connected" two 180 gallon tanks to it. Basically, this skimmer was responsible for skimming 2 180 gallon tanks and a 40 gallon sump. I was lazy in my maintenance, and for the first couple of months I didn't even pay attention to my collection bucket (it was a 5 gallon bucket, and I just made sure it wasn't overflowing).

Turns out that I hadn't pulled anything out of the tank in that 2 months (or more). The skimmer wasn't "tweaked" to the proper water level, so it really wasn't working like it should. I ended up unplugging it, and for the last 2 months I have been "skimmerless". No noticeable change in my tank. I only have a few LPS (bubble) and some soft corals in the tank (getting prepared to move again, so don't want to have too much livestock). My few corals are all expanding and growing beautifully. I also have incredible sponge growth all over my live rock.

Admittedly, my tanks are meagerly stocked with corals (and certainly no delicate ones), but the tanks are doing fine. I think strong circulation, a healthy sandbed, and SANE stocking levels are the key. The more poop in the tank, the more poop has to be taken out.

Brian
 
fwiw 1/2 a cube of formula 1 wouldn't do it for my fish I feed probally 4 cubes of various foods and a good pinch of spinurila. daily Any thing less and my fish look skinny. ever see a wild tang? They should look fat not like what ppl usually see they look funny.I've had my 120g without a skimmer for @6weeks. reduced feeding didwith a full refugium which is the only way I would grow caulerpa= I hate it in my reef. But I have huge tube worm mass pods in tank and in the refugium. My dsb isn't for filtration but for pods to grow. I pull alot of gunk from my tank. I know what I feed and food is cheap. My tank jsut looks better with good skimmg. But I do have a mixed reef. probally why my sps doesn't look good without skimming maybe chemical warefare. But IME I've seen more alga in ecosystem tanks than skimmed ones. But also have seen the same person with a skimmer and ecosystem = Theres many methoids I believe its more of the reefkeeper. Skimmers are newer than going skimmerless so going skimmerless isn't nothing new
 
I

55G w/ a 4" sand bed and 125lbs of LR.

Actually, I have a skimmer attached to my HOB Amiracle w/d. Damn thing doesn't work though, so I consider it skimmerless.

Worked good in the beginning. Had to put an airstone in it to make it foam. Took out airstone 2-3 months ago.

Only adverse effects are my cup coral hasn't been doing well, and my mushrooms have all pretty much shriveled up and disappered. Can't say it's the skimmer though, but the timing is right. Could also be the toadstool leather I added, timing is right there too.
 
When I first started up the 29g, I had a skimmer in place. And even though things looked good in the tank, it wasn't until after I removed it that everything started to really perk up. My feather dusters are twice the size they were before and all the mushroom corals are reproducing like mad. I don't have a sump or refugium on this tank, BUT....the HOB filter is acting like a refugium and an algae scrubber too! If you look in the filter, you can see all kinds of sea squirts, and on the overflow "lip" there is a nice growth of algae where none of the snails can get at it. The only thing in the filter pad is Phos-zorb to remove phophates and silicates. I also have a nice growth of yellow sponges on the LR since the skimmer has gone!
 
I got a RS Berlin skimmer for my 400 g tank. I have not clean it in more than one year. Over the last month or so, the skimmer just clotted up and no water flowed throug it at all. Thus I am now completly skimmerless. Not even use it to oxygenated the water.
 
Had a 110 that I set up as an Ecosystem tank with Miracle Mud. Have to admit that it did very well for a year until I crashed it with copper poisoning.

Everything looked great until the copper. I threw a Lifereef skimmer on it when I did not know what was wrong, though, and it pulled out TAR. Man was it gross. I think this time around I am going with skimmer / refugium combo. Best of both worlds.

Gotta say though, I had NO algea through the life of the tank and corals did great.
 
My 29 has been skimmerless sience Feb 99. Also i have high disolved organics. I too had a bad attack of hair but i started adding as many macro algaes as i could find and now i have almost no hair and my hippo keeps it in check. in my opinion most corals dont mind high doc and some thrive like my green digitata. Also without a skimmer coral more often come out of the rocks like my star polyps and evan a blastomussa. i dont see them useful unless you are dealing with finiky sp like acropora and then you can keep them with frequent water changes.
 
Oh no, not the oxygen myth!

Oh no, not the oxygen myth!

hehe...

I got a good "lesson" in the whole chemistry bit of the oxygenation gab. See, I used to think that the bubbles of course put oxygen in the water.

I was first "placed" a few years back when my marine biology (for credentials ;) ) friend at UCSC told me that those "bubbles" were insignificant, and that my "oxygenation" would come via an excellent surface exchange. Seeing as he had what came to be my first tank up and running for 12 years, and I saw how beautiful his systems were, I accepted his "word" as significantly "experienced."

It was until just recently, however, that I got a much clearer understanding of the whole "bubble theory." ;) Some will remember that awesome debate over at AL.

Now, I'm not a chemist, but the guy explaining, saltshop, really knows his stuff, and although I was on the right line of thinking, he cleared up the process significantly. There's only so much oxygen saturation in the water. Putting "bubbles" from a skimmer will not put more oxygen in the water unless that water has less oxygen than the oxygen contained in the bubbles. Confusing? Don't let it be... It's real simple... More oxygen in the bubbles will transfer into the water, but more oxygen in the tank and those bubbles will actually consume oxygen from the tank.... Now, unless you have a tank which is covered, sealed and otherwise deprived of oxygen, a skimmer will not put more oxygen into the tank. This is because with a good surface agitation, and good exchange at the top of the tank (assuming the tank is well circulated) the tank will have achieved a certain oxygenation level. Now, your skimmer is taking air from the same environment, right? And in some cases, the skimmer (especially the air pump) is located in a stagnant cabinet. This "air" being injected into the skimmer's water column might actually deprive one's overall oxygen levels. This would be rare, and I'm not doing anything other than showing a graduated example. If you are obtaining air from an environment with far more pure oxygen, then sure, you will naturally put more oxygen into the water. But how many of us have our skimmer pumps located remotely from the tank, or have them outside the house, where they might actually bring in fresh oxygen? The bubbles rising actually can produce an exchange, but it will work to the benefit of whichever "unit" is oxygen deficient. That means it will either take, give, or remain balanced. With a good surface exchange, there's just no way that a skimmer can "inject" more oxygen than what is already stable from the same atmospheric source.

Why argue or debate? Get a good probe, put it in your tank, and watch your readings.... See if they change from one day to the next with "injections" of bubbles with the same oxygen content as what is already in the tank. Some of ya might even freak if your numbers dip because your air pump is in a mildewy, stank cabinet (I raise my hand here, because that's what I experienced - yes, it was that bad).

Again, if a person has a tank which is fairly "sealed off" from getting a good surface exchange, then adding bubbles for possible exchange in the sump can be a positive thing. But for those running systems with easy access to the air in the room, and a good surface exchange, bubbles from the same air won't help increase the oxygen level.

I have a problem putting things simply, but I Saltshop was able to put years of chemistry studies behind his explanation. I just try to put it as basically as I can. Hopefully, it makes sense... If not, like I said, get the ORP probe and see for yourself. You simply can't "exchange" oxygen if the levels are the same in both the bubbles and the tank - which is the case in most of our systems where we shoot for a good "surface exchange."

Now, who said skimmerless is a fad??? ;) Au contraire, this hobby was around long before these plastic bongs, ;) and if I might politely interject, the skimmers are the fad to the hobby. They are clearly a device which made its appearance, was heavily relied upon, and now, thanks to a greater appreciation and understanding of how our systems can utilize organics, are indeed making their way to more and more garages... Now, you tell me: Which is the fad? The aquarium, or the skimmer? ;) So many folks have never even owned a skimmer, and really the big question was can we keep corals, and so many other things "in question" as readily healthy without a skimmer. Clearly, it has been shown that we can. Indeed, some folks report much better appearances once they ceased skimming... You can't fault them for what they see to be true. There should be no animosity or despise, nor should there be this so untrue theory that "skimmerless" is best left for the experienced. I've set up too many folks, and seen too much success for this thought to even register as potentially valid. We all agree that beginners should never rush into this hobby without researching, right? Well, that same research that you "require" them to have will carry them over just fine without the need for a skimmer. Proper cycling and establishment does not require our interference. There's no "skill" involved in letting things sit.
And there's far too many folks not using skimmers to consider it a "fad." Again, if anything is the "fad" it is the skimmer itself, which will take it's place in history alongside the wet/dry trickle filter, and cannister filters also once "required" to run a successful saltwater aquarium.... It's not that skimmers don't serve a purpose, it's just that I think folks are coming to see them as a bit over-rated, and actually completely unnecessary. ;)

There are always a few schools of though, as noted. The student of the skimmer-professor will no doubt experience the awe and wonders of the conventional skimmer, and naturally become trained in thought that the skimmer is an "essential" element to the success of the system.... That person (especially after having spent hundreds of dollars on it :D ) will always justify it's need and purpose.....

Then there is the student who I set up... No skimmer, spend your money on lights, concentrate on circulation and a good surface exchange.... Explain how caulerpa works (and by the way, I have never used a refugium, as pictured on my website I love to employ the look of caulerpa right in my main tank). This student will never come to know the skimmer other than an explanation of what it is used for, and why it is not necessary. I will explain precisely what it does, and how that can often be contrary to the nutrient needs of many systems. By example, I would point out the dozens of snake-oils (err, necessary elements) that proclaim their success in "replacing trace elements removed by skimming." :eek: The long and short of it would be I would show him/her my systems, even the most basic of them, and Smitty's systems, Redhawk's system... Ken's systems.... Marc's system..... Some of the local folks... But after a few short months, the "student" would be well on the way to a successful, stable system not contingent upon a life support system... I would of course advise them not to dump anything into the tank "by accident", and show them how easy it is to lay the food out on the table, and then only bring over to the tank what is necessary, so there is no danger of "overfeeding" or justification for nutrient removal with a skimmer. ;) But of course, if they don't have common sense to begin with, I can't help them....

No, skimmerless can't be considered a fad, it has been around longer than the skimmer itself, so by nature of the definition of the word, that would be a false assertation at best. :D

I know it can be confusing to beginners, but every one I've "gotten my hands on" has conclusively agreed after a few months that they are glad they didn't throw their money away. A good cannister filter is always recommended to have on hand to pull out any medications, or to run carbon if one desires. I guess it's like driving a stick..... Those that can, think of it as second-nature, while those that can't regard it with a type of mystical engagement of awe, that people have such awesome "experience" to engage in transportation with such a type of transmission. ;) The only bad thing with that analogy is that you actually do have to learn to drive a stick, while you don't need to "learn" how to go skimmerless.

But hey, I thought we were through debating skimmers??? Dayung..... There's nothing left to "prove", now the issue is whether or not it's "recommended" to beginners... Like I say, everybody I mentor goes skimmerless from the start, and I am not sent new hobbyists from MENSA, or any other supremely intelligent source. Indeed some of the folks I take under my wing would probably be taxed a bit too much if I explained the work involved in setting up, maintaining, checking, adjusting, dumping skimmate, making sure the seal is made, airstones reknewed, etc., etc., No, better for me to just explain the skimmer and wet/dry as more recent fads to a hobby that has been in existance for decades, and how we have advanced so that we don't need to rely on mechanical filtration.... and how it's much easier..... etc. etc.
 
I will swallow a little pride here but.....

Skimmerless is a time bomb. Don't think because you have been skimmerless for 6 months that you have conquered the world. For those that have been skimmerless for years then your doing something right and congradulations !!!!!

All I can say is that if something goes south and your refugium basically gets wiped out then you have no other filtration to fall back on your in big trouble and can happen quickly in just a few weeks !!! I will be the first to admit that.

I went almost an entire year skimmerless and was awful proud of myself. But it takes more work skimmerless IMO than just slapping a super-duper skimmer on a tank and being done with it.

First off tank is 190g acrylic, 66g refugium / sump ( refugium area is 36"L X 20"W X 14"H ). Was skimmerless for almost a full year with refugium as the main filtration. Later added a DIY 5' CC skimmer. Lighting over the refugium is 4 X30W NO daylights. Tank is full of SPS and other corals. Here is a quick pic to show I do not have a lightly stocked tank:
Full_view_20K_2weeks.jpg


I learned a few lessons ( seem quite obvious now ) that I will share. You may or may not agree with but fit my situation.......

1.When you seen any kind of nuisance type algae forming in the refugium get it under control immediately. I had some red fuzzy ball type algae growing in there. It seems easy to remove and for diversity I left it in and never saw it growing in the main tank. Well it didn't happend immediately but months later started popping up in the main tank. Now with Corals that are bushy it gets caught in the middle of the coral starts growing and impossible to get out.

2. Export regularly. Originally thought process was more calerupa the better. If gets too much in refugium it chokes out the lower stuff and dies. My new general rule of thumb NOW is You need to be able to still see the majority of the bottom of the refugium. It it is so packed you can't see it then you probably are getting die off from the bottom up.

3. Don't take drastic measures. My tank is acrylic and really difficult to get behind the rockwork plus I have a back on it so you can't see through. Well unknown to me, There was tons of Halmedia growing from the bottom of the tank all the way up to the top of the 24" high tank in the back. After dicovering this, about 12" high of it was snow white because it got choked out. My first reaction ( STUPID STUPID STUPID ) was to get it out. I pulled out three literally stuffed plastic grocery bags full of it some dead and some still green. Within weeks of this my trouble EXPLODED !!!

4. Keep filter floss between the return pump and the refugium. I know this is contrary to most people objectives that they want the critters to make it up to the main tank. But if this is going to be your main filtration I would forgoe the critters to keep the algae from making it's way to the main tank. For the first 6-8 months I had filter floss in the sump/refugium in the partition just before the return pump. I never saw any algae making its way up to the show tank. Then removed it ( STUPID STUPID STUPID ). Algae slowly began to progress in the main tank. This is when I added a CC skimmer to combat and place filter floss back on.

5. Keep snails and urchins in the sump to help combat unwanted algae.

Current: I completely cleaned out my refugium and placed all the LR that was down there is a holding bin. The challenge is now that my main filtration is basically GONE, I don't have a super-duper skimmer to keep up. I am adding a second DIY 5' CC skimmer tower to my setup. Heavy on the water changes while siphoning out. I have plenty of sources locally to reseed the calerpa to get me throught till spring. At which time I will probably order from Inland ( or where ever that is ) to get more proper algae for in the sump. Also I am going to try the 24/7 lighting in the sump. I have a spare Icecap 660 that I am in the process up putting on the sump 2X110W VHO to replace the 4X30W NOs.

Does this change my philosophy on refugiums ? NO. I did some real stupid things ( Hindsight ) that could have prevented. I have some challenges in the main tank to overcome but I have seen far worse before. No deaths of any SPS that I think was contributed to this problem. Nothing really seems to be on the decline ( except a little pride ). I did have 1 frag die recently but could have been anything and it was small..... Once things are back under control I have some SPS that I will probably frag so that I can clean out the nusiance algae that has gotten in between the branches.....
 
Last edited:
Re: Oh no, not the oxygen myth!

Re: Oh no, not the oxygen myth!

FISH WHISPERER said:
...
But hey, I thought we were through debating skimmers??? Dayung..... There's nothing left to "prove", now the issue is whether or not it's "recommended" to beginners... Like I say, everybody I mentor goes skimmerless from the start...

Fish Wisperer,

I still have to ask why? Why limit your export mechanism to algae? There is no advantage to having 'less tools'.

I can export algae and use a skimmer too.

What's the down-side? The phytoplankton-removal argument? I contend that I'm better using DTs than relying on what my tiny glass box can produce.

On the O2 benefits, we disagree. I can site Dilbert & Sprung, Tullock, Harker and others with an opposing viewpoint.

Again, other than the sales pitch, all I see is a downside to the skimmerless approach. (Tank effects, I'll agree it's cheaper, but I'm not going to recommend it.)

For ever (X) successful skimmerless tanks I'll bet there is (Y*X) skimmed tanks, and that (Y) is greater than one.

Wether or not it is an old approach, please, no sales pitch, why is it better? I only see it cheaper by the cost of the skimmer and it's power requirements, and more limited in exporting nutrients.
 
To turn the question around, why is skimmerless more limited than a skimmer? Do you know what a skimmer is actually exporting? How about algal growth?

Personally, I don't! :D
 
Jawfish,

I learned the hard way but I agree with you totally. Skimmerless I think is mostly a pride thing. I learned for myself that it is best to have a combination. Limiting your self to just one ? Why not have the best of both worlds ?

I haven't given up on refugiums but from now I will not be caught with my pants down !!! I will be more prepared and will some type of skimmer even if not a super duper skimmer.

There is just too much at risk. ( For me anyway )
 
Last edited:
To turn the question around, why is skimmerless more limited than a skimmer? Do you know what a skimmer is actually exporting? How about algal growth?

Personally, I don't! :D

P.S.
A DSB will be producing zooplankton, which is significantly different than DT's phytoplankton.
 
David,

I'm not disagreeing with a thing you've said. I'm glad you posted. Although I think someone who can run a skimmerless tank has reason for pride, I learned the hard way, long ago, with a crappy counter-current (Amiracle) skimmer on a 75 (almost skimmerless LOL!). It was eventually moderately successful, when I reached the point of pruning a head-of-lettuce sized wad of macroalgae a week.

But if you prune too much, IME, it seems more likely for the macro algae to crash (I don't know why tho.)

I very much believe in refugiums, and use them myself.

Dragon0121,

Skimmerless, IMO, is more limited than using a skimmer, since the only 'recommended' method of nutrient export is pruning algae. In a closed system, if you don't export enough nutrients, it will eventually 'crash'. A skimmer is another, and probably the 'only other' decent method of nutrient export. (I'm not a big fan of mechanical filter/export) The skimmer skum contains dissolved organics, and some contend (under the right conditions, say using kalk) phosphates. There have been skimmate analysis(es) published. In short the skimmer removes 'stuff' that includes bad things, like phosphates. Perhaps things like dissolved organic compounds, or at least part of them, can be fully cycled in a tank with a DSB, but phosphat buildup, for example can be big trouble. Regardless, unlike the ocean, an aquarium is 'nutrient-rich'.

There is nothing that prohibits using a DSB (and plenums still work too), or a refugium with a skimmer. I use both. And yes, a DSB does aid in the production of zooplankton. Yet zooplankton are present, and multiply, in the area of my sump that my skimmer is in. (And it's one huge badass skimmer. :) )

I also believe, (and so does the vast majority of reefers), that a skimmer removes my excess CO2 from my calcium reactor, and GREATLY assists in adding oxygen. The increase in my PH from adding a EuroReef CS8-3 when I replaced my small downdraft skimmer convinced me of that.

Now it is also conventionally accepted that a DSB is a large consumer of oxygen (at least the upper layer). Although I have no proof backing this theory, my contention is that it may aid in the support a greater level of life in my DSB. But again, this is anecdotal hogwash, even if I believe there is more life there or not.

Fish Wisperer,

I hope your realize that I'm just debating you here. I've always like your posts. The ones on this thread were so colorful, interesting, and against my beliefs, I had to post an opposing view. I know I'm no diplomat, and have little time to edit my posts to make them diplomatic, so...please don't take my disagreement personally.
 
Good question, Dragon.

Good question, Dragon.

Great question, and it's been debated and even argued that "too much" skimming can be bad, and one would have to "make up" for what is all removed. I personally don't make that argument, because frankly I'm not versed enough on what it all removes. All I can say is that I don't think it can be called a "timebomb"... Were all tanks "timebombs" before somebody slapped together an acrylic tube, forced air into the water and invented the "skimmer"? I think not. ;) Better yet, don't tell Eric Borneman his tanks are "timebombs." ;) I think he would know just a bit better, certainly more than me.
So, WHY do I go skimmerless? Is it a pride thing? Certainly not for me. I have some nice skimmers in my shed, and they would indeed look impressive on my systems... THAT would be pride. I think more so than not, the pride is expressed by folks that have dumped some hundreds of $$ into their tubes and want to feel good about it. So, why? I guess I got frustrated with trying to keep the water level adjusted in some skimmers, and even with overflow containers I experienced plain old tank water overflowing - not because it was pulling gunk, it was quite clear... It was just because the water level rose significantly enough to overflow. So, to me it was a headache... The skimmer was the most "dangerous" thing on my tank; if it overflowed, my sump was pretty much empty and pumps can run dry = not good. ;) When I had one of my tanks in pursuit of a lagoonal look, and the razor caulerpa was nice and lush, the skimmer just stopped working.... So, I didn't even replace the airstones... It pretty much went "skimmerless" all on its own... My pride had no influence. ;) Thank God that "timebomb" of a skimmer is no longer a threat! ;) No more spills, no smells....
And what's the tradeoff? I have beautiful caulerpa in my current show, nicely stuffed to one side. It is razor caulerpa... It doesn't go sexual, and I've never had a problem with it. I've never had a refugium, so I can't comment on those being a "timebomb." I suppose one might take a gander and say I have my "refugium" right in the main tank. That's okay by me. It works.

Everybody was skimmerless before there were skimmers. I must direct your attention back to that fact. I can't see a need for a skimmer, even as a "backup." I have a cannister ready to go if there's ever a need for "emergency filtration." I just don't see a need for a skimmer. If one person could justify an actual need then I of course would be using one. But I'm lucky, because I like razor caulerpa in my tank, I like not having to worry about a timebomb skimmer spitting water inside my cabinet, and I like the way I know there's plenty of nutrients in the water column. I LOVE the way my corals look. I don't worry about the "timebomb" theory, because it's one of those things always warned about, but with absolutely zero conclusive evidence. Just because someone has their tank take a plunge has nothing to do with whether or not they skim.. Plenty of folks with skimmers are crying all the time about their "problems." So, it's not like it's any sort of "end-all."

It's odd, it's those folks with skimmers all the time preaching the need for them, and it's those without who don't understand the hysteria. :eek: Again, I feel it has nothing to do with "experience" because everyone I've started out has done so without a skimmer, and I'm not passing on anything supremely intelligent to them; just the basics. It's simple.... Caulerpa gets to trimming size - trim. It grows back, trim. Repeat steps. There, now how in the world does that require an "expert hand?" Anyways, I'm nobody special, but there's an ocean of folks who have been skimmerless for years... So newbies shouldn't worry. Hopefully, those that want to be "relieved" of another piece of tank equipment will get advice from those that have done so successfully. That makes sense. If I want to know how to do a refugium, I'd ask someone that isn't afraid of them, or doesn't think they are a timebomb. Same thing with skimmerless. You see, there's just too many folks who shrug off the paranoia about "skimmerless" because it's probably as logical as not going outside because one day the sun is going to burn the earth up. :rolleyes: People on both sides of the issue can have disasters in their tanks. People without skimmers will never have a disaster with one.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I know some people think skimmerless is a challenge, and maybe they try it for that reason. I've got a forum full of folks who admit rather sheepishly that it's absolutely the biggest "hype" possible. "Ooooh I'm going to go skimmerless......." Followed by, "My God, I didn't DO anything, and things look great."

Tanks did fine for years without skimmers before they were invented. To say they now "can't" is ludicrous, and absolutely disproven by the mere fact of time and grade. So stop all the nonsense, and if you want to go skimmerless, it's far less of a headache, and just ask someone who is not jolted by the "challenge." You'll find it's a piece of cake. The only pride will be in the fact that you are not soiling your cabinet/carpet! :D If you don't want to go skimmerless...Don't. Isn't that simple? There's plenty of folks who run beautiful tanks with a skimmer.... There's plenty of folks who run beautiful tanks without a skimmer.... So it's not a deciding factor. I suppose if one doesn't like caulerpa, and insists on using caulerpa that goes sexual, or spews milk in the tank, that's a personal option. I always recommend razor caulerpa, and will continue to do so. Remember, folks, just because your tank "crashes" without a skimmer doesn't mean that's the reason. Did you have a UV? Maybe THATS what caused it? Not running a wet dry? Maybe THATS why the tank crashed. Ooops... As you can see, many folks don't run any, and do so successfully. Some folks will have a bout of bad luck... Maybe it could just be poor husbandry, or just blatant neglect? Maybe something died, and the system couldn't handle the load? Maybe maybe maybe...

I would encourage anyone who wants to eliminate the hassle of a skimmer to ask someone who has "been there and done that." Not someone still tethered to what they think is a "must have" for their tank. The worst experience I ever had was years ago with a "skimmed" tank. Because of the cyano crash, I didn't "blame" the skimmer. That wasn't the "reason." So reasoning, I find it difficult to believe that a tank would crash and not having a skimmer would be to "blame." If a tank crashes that bad, I doubt seriously a skimmer would be a cure. Remember, the skimmer is there to provide help AFTER the screw-up. ;) Having caulerpa and a DSB and a well-balanced ecosystem seems for many folks to prevent there being a screw-up unless there's man-made involvement in said screw up. I can assure folks that Martin Moes tanks were hardly time-bombs..... And they were hardly skimmed. Eric Borneman? I would find myself quite arrogant to tell such an experienced biologist that his tanks are "time bombs." Cute "warning", but please don't think that your bad experiences will hold true for everyone else. (Not directed at Dragon, but the person who's tank crashed, and therefore thinks that everyone elses will follow suit. ;) )

Saying skimmerless is a "timebomb" equates (in my mind, anyway) the same thing as saying that not having a wet/dry will create a "timebomb." Times advance, technology advances, and most importantly knowledge and experience advance. Bottom line, if you think a diver with bubbles will help your tank, go for it. If your "tool" of choice is a skimmer, best of luck to you, that's what we all want, is for everyone to be successful. But if someone opts for a more natural filtration system, please don't slam 'em for it, or give dire warnings with absolutely zero substantiation other than your own bad luck. You can't argue with the fact that so many folks are successfully skimmerless, and again, pride has nothin to do with it... More likely is the desire to streamline the system, or perhaps make it more stable and self-reliant. That's the case with me, anyway.... For me, it's all about having the most maintenance-friendly system. I guess I was never up to the challenge of keeping a skimmer tuned, and water off the cabinet/carpet. Now, does that mean that everybody else has a timebomb just because I screwed up? Nah. That was just a personal failure, and I got over it.... Certainly I can guarantee that it will never happen again. :)
 
Back
Top