Skimmers Debunked

[VIVVIV]

I thought it would be good to examine some of the myths and outright scams concerning skimmers.

1-Do you really need a skimmer?

Maybe not, but it certainly is good to have one. So go ahead and get one. It is just another aspect of filtration, and it is possible you might not need any filtration if all you have is very few fish in a bare bottom tank IF you do regular water changes. BUT - filtration is good.

2-Does the type of skimmer matter?

Absolutely not. You can build one using PVC and a wood airstone or spend $1600 on a fancy piece of overpriced plastic. How the bubbles are made is irrelevant. The physics or protein skimming remains the same.

3-What might matter?

If you are concerned about efficiency then a commercial unit may be for you. But I use 2 - 2" PVC home made skimmers with wood airstones. They produce a nice steady foam and skimmate. What really matters is the placement in the tank or sump. The water level determines how it works. You will easily find the best level for it to be at.

4-Does it need time to ""break in"?

No. Nothing changes from the second you put a new skimmer in the sump to a year later. The physics remains the same. This widely held misconception is probably the result of adding a skimmer to a new installation. There will not be anything to skim at first, just as you might find after a major water change.
It's not breaking in, it's waiting for protein to accumulate,

Bottom line though is that paying a thousand dollars for a skimmer is just lunacy.

 

[Goss]

My skimmer died a couple weeks ago. I did a lot of reading and watched a lot of videos. I decided to go skimmerless and sockless. It's the best decision I made. I am now running on biopellete and Chaeto. The microfauna is amazing to see progress and I have a completely stable tank.

Below are some pictures.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tripod1404]

I thought it would be good to examine some of the myths and outright scams concerning skimmers.

1-Do you really need a skimmer?

Maybe not, but it certainly is good to have one. So go ahead and get one. It is just another aspect of filtration, and it is possible you might not need any filtration if all you have is very few fish in a bare bottom tank IF you do regular water changes. BUT - filtration is good.

2-Does the type of skimmer matter?

Absolutely not. You can build one using PVC and a wood airstone or spend $1600 on a fancy piece of overpriced plastic. How the bubbles are made is irrelevant. The physics or protein skimming remains the same.

3-What might matter?

If you are concerned about efficiency then a commercial unit may be for you. But I use 2 - 2" PVC home made skimmers with wood airstones. They produce a nice steady foam and skimmate. What really matters is the placement in the tank or sump. The water level determines how it works. You will easily find the best level for it to be at.

4-Does it need time to ""break in"?

No. Nothing changes from the second you put a new skimmer in the sump to a year later. The physics remains the same. This widely held misconception is probably the result of adding a skimmer to a new installation. There will not be anything to skim at first, just as you might find after a major water change.
It's not breaking in, it's waiting for protein to accumulate,

Bottom line though is that paying a thousand dollars for a skimmer is just lunacy.

1 and 4 are not entirely correct. How bubbles are made are extremely relevant because bubble size determines how effective a skimmer is. A skimmer functions by foam fractionating proteins with a significant hydrophobic surface onto the the air/water interface. Smaller bubbles increase the overall surface area of the air/water interface and hence increase skimming efficiency. So mechanisms that generate smaller bubbles produce better skimmers. Same is also true for the shape and materiel of the skimmer. Bubbles anything that cause the bubble to pop before reaching to the collection cup drops the overall efficiency since loss of bubbles reduce the overall water/air interface. A lot of turbulence within the skimmer body would cause the bubbles to fuse or pop, both reduce interface. Skimmer body and the cone shape can help with both the flow within the skimmer body and it can reduce the bubbles dragging/rubbing on to the inner surface of the skimmer body and popping.

And skimmers have a break in period because the inner surface of the skimmer needs to be covered with bacteria and proteins (biofilm) for proper function. Without them, some bubbles would rub (not easy slide off) to the inner surface of the skimmer and pop. If you thoroughly clean a old skimmer on an old system, its output will also temporally drop since this removes the biofilm.

 

[Anemone]

1 and 4 are not entirely correct. How bubbles are made are extremely relevant because bubble size determines how effective a skimmer is. A skimmer functions by foam fractionating proteins with a significant hydrophobic surface onto the the air/water interface. Smaller bubbles increase the overall surface area of the air/water interface and hence increase skimming efficiency. So mechanisms that generate smaller bubbles produce better skimmers. Same is also true for the shape and materiel of the skimmer. Bubbles anything that cause the bubble to pop before reaching to the collection cup drops the overall efficiency since loss of bubbles reduce the overall water/air interface. A lot of turbulence within the skimmer body would cause the bubbles to fuse or pop, both reduce interface. Skimmer body and the cone shape can help with both the flow within the skimmer body and it can reduce the bubbles dragging/rubbing on to the inner surface of the skimmer body and popping.

And skimmers have a break in period because the inner surface of the skimmer needs to be covered with bacteria and proteins (biofilm) for proper function. Without them, some bubbles would rub (not easy slide off) to the inner surface of the skimmer and pop. If you thoroughly clean a old skimmer on an old system, its output will also temporally drop since this removes the biofilm.

Correct!

Kevin

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

I agree that new skimmers, particularly those designed for larger set ups are very pricey. However, working in a manufacturing plant and knowing how much some of the raw materials cost, I'm not surprised they cost as much as they do. It's too bad there aren't economical skimmers like the RK25PE commercial skimmer but for more modest sized tanks, like a 200 gallon. For example, the RK25PE is about $4,000, but can handle a 3,000 gallon system. The same company makes an RK10AC which is a clear acrylic one that can handle a 1,200 gallon system, and yet still costs slightly more than the RK25PE due to material cost for the acrylic.

Because there aren't many economical options for medium sized systems, I'll likely buy used, or DIY for my next skimmer. I'm sure If I make a DIY skimmer, it will have to have a larger footprint or be taller than the commercially available skimmers that can handle the same sized tank, but if you have the room, and are handy that may be a good choice to save some good money. Perfect for those who have a fish room and a large sump with some extra space.

 

[alton]

Skimmers are a needed unless you run a full blown softy tank or very few fish in your tank. Mechanical filtration is need also for long term 10+ years. And yes there are some that seem to make it work, but they are in the minority.

 

[ThRoewer]

The type of skimmer also matters.
The most efficient skimmers are still the old fashioned, tall counter-current and airstone operated.

Also, while you can keep fish and coral alive without a skimmer for a while, I would not go permanently without.

 

[reefgeezer]

Blanket statements about skimmer requirements or efficiency are usually wrong.

The filtration required for any system is dependent on its maturity and the make-up of its bioload. IMO, a skimmer might very well be required, and is still probably the best option, in a system that doesn't otherwise have enough organisms that can use dissolved organic compounds. A very mature system with lots of sponges, sea squirts, tube worms, corals. and etc. hoovering up organics and cycling organic nutrients into inorganic ones that other organisms then use might not need one.

It is probably also true that a skimmer helped those very mature systems get to a place where the skimmer was no longer needed.

 

[Desertoasis]

Very interesting ideas, right now I'm running skimerless but may get an airstone one in the future for my little tanks.

 

[2000se]

I thought it would be good to examine some of the myths and outright scams concerning skimmers.

1-Do you really need a skimmer?

Maybe not, but it certainly is good to have one. So go ahead and get one. It is just another aspect of filtration, and it is possible you might not need any filtration if all you have is very few fish in a bare bottom tank IF you do regular water changes. BUT - filtration is good.

2-Does the type of skimmer matter?

Absolutely not. You can build one using PVC and a wood airstone or spend $1600 on a fancy piece of overpriced plastic. How the bubbles are made is irrelevant. The physics or protein skimming remains the same.

3-What might matter?

If you are concerned about efficiency then a commercial unit may be for you. But I use 2 - 2" PVC home made skimmers with wood airstones. They produce a nice steady foam and skimmate. What really matters is the placement in the tank or sump. The water level determines how it works. You will easily find the best level for it to be at.

4-Does it need time to ""break in"?

No. Nothing changes from the second you put a new skimmer in the sump to a year later. The physics remains the same. This widely held misconception is probably the result of adding a skimmer to a new installation. There will not be anything to skim at first, just as you might find after a major water change.
It's not breaking in, it's waiting for protein to accumulate,

Bottom line though is that paying a thousand dollars for a skimmer is just lunacy.

can we see said pvc airstone skimmer? I'm interested.

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve recently started making my own acrylic reactors and extension tubes ..... good quality acrylic is EXPENSIVE. OK, a lot of skimmers are extruded junk, but I do now understand why a well made skimmer is expensive.

 

[Misled]

I made this and used two wooden airstones driven by a tetra luft pump.

I made this a bunch of years back. Used it on a 90gal for about 5 years. It was a good skimmer. You may get some ideas from it.

 

[VIVVIV]

Pics

Pics

can we see said pvc airstone skimmer? I'm interested.

No problem. Here are some pics of one which I just finished, and the other which I installed in the display tank just to see how it was going to work. Hard to see but you can make out some foam and skimmate.

Both will be moved to the sump in a couple of days.

 

[VIVVIV]

Wrong

Wrong

1 and 4 are not entirely correct. How bubbles are made are extremely relevant because bubble size determines how effective a skimmer is. A skimmer functions by foam fractionating proteins with a significant hydrophobic surface onto the the air/water interface. Smaller bubbles increase the overall surface area of the air/water interface and hence increase skimming efficiency. So mechanisms that generate smaller bubbles produce better skimmers. Same is also true for the shape and materiel of the skimmer. Bubbles anything that cause the bubble to pop before reaching to the collection cup drops the overall efficiency since loss of bubbles reduce the overall water/air interface. A lot of turbulence within the skimmer body would cause the bubbles to fuse or pop, both reduce interface. Skimmer body and the cone shape can help with both the flow within the skimmer body and it can reduce the bubbles dragging/rubbing on to the inner surface of the skimmer body and popping.

And skimmers have a break in period because the inner surface of the skimmer needs to be covered with bacteria and proteins (biofilm) for proper function. Without them, some bubbles would rub (not easy slide off) to the inner surface of the skimmer and pop. If you thoroughly clean a old skimmer on an old system, its output will also temporally drop since this removes the biofilm.

How is #1 wrong? IT DOES NOT MATTER how the bubbles are made. You could make them by farting so long as you had enough gas and the bubbles were the correct size. How is not the same as what.

As for #4 there has been no study done of bacterial growth inside the skimmer to facilitate skimming. If you know of such research please let us know.

 

[VIVVIV]

correct!

Kevin

not

 

[VIVVIV]

Blanket statements about skimmer requirements or efficiency are usually wrong.

>>>> How do you know this?

The filtration required for any system is dependent on its maturity and the make-up of its bioload. IMO, a skimmer might very well be required, and is still probably the best option, in a system that doesn't otherwise have enough organisms that can use dissolved organic compounds. A very mature system with lots of sponges, sea squirts, tube worms, corals. and etc. hoovering up organics and cycling organic nutrients into inorganic ones that other organisms then use might not need one.

>>>>>Glad you agree

It is probably also true that a skimmer helped those very mature systems get to a place where the skimmer was no longer needed.

Like I said. See what works best but there is no reason to NOT get one.

 

[VIVVIV]

For you.

For you.

Very interesting ideas, right now I'm running skimerless but may get an airstone one in the future for my little tanks.

Make the small ones like I did. It's easy, cheap, fun and you will learn as you go along, especially with the placement (height) of the unit.

See DIY here:https://www.google.com/search?q=diy...6.2023j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=1

 

[Anemone]

How the bubbles are made is irrelevant.

IT DOES NOT MATTER how the bubbles are made. You could make them by farting so long as you had enough gas and the bubbles were the correct size.

How the bubbles are made effects bubble size. Your first statement made no reference to "correct bubble size," hence it was not entirely correct.

Kevin

 

[ca1ore]

There are a few bits of equipment that I was thrilled to put in the rear view mirror. Ozonizers and limewood air ‘stones’ are at the top of that list :lol:. All for building your own skimmer, but something like a mazzei injector works so much better. YMMV I suppose.

 

[Anemone]

limewood air "˜stones' are at the top of that list :lol:. A

Oh, absolutely. Changing them out every month to keep the bubble production consistent became a real PITA!

Kevin