skimmers, what are they and, more importantly, WHY.

Sk8r

Staff member
RC Mod
So many novices ask, hoping not---do I need a skimmer?
First thing to know is---what's an amino acid? Why are amino acids sometimes given as a 'dose'? Do I want them?
Amino acids come from protein breakdown: ie, when fishfood, fish, or fish poo, or any meaty substance breaks down---amino acids are what it breaks down into, putting it in a basic way. And amino acids themselves can be a nutrient---but they can also break down into nitrate and phosphate.

SO---too much is not a good thing. How not-good it is depends on what you're trying to keep, because some things don't like---seriously don't like---too much.

You'll note the ocean froths a lot on beaches. This is a natural 'skimming' action. Now, a swimming pool skimmer literally just sucks the surface of the water, collecting leaves, etc. That's NOT what a marine tank skimmer does: a marine tank skimmer takes advantage of a tendency amino acid has in salt water: it froths. It makes foam and bubbles. Lighter than water: it floats, so---froth as much as you can, and it will rise into a cup where it degenerates into a fluid brown or green-black that, if concentrated, smells pretty bad. This is now NOT in your tank. It can be taken to the sink and sent down the drain---and in a really active skimming, it can need that every day or so. This is crud that is not breaking down further in your tank.

What would it break down into if it were left in the tank? Two answers are: phosphates and nitrates. An excess of phosphate leads to algae growth and an excess of nitrate leads to blooms of nasty things and very unhappy, even dead, corals. I can't think that fish are that thrilled with it, either.

Now, you CAN overdo skimming: you can stripmine the water of every trace of nitrate and phosphate, and you do need a smidge, but by 'smidge', I mean the faintest trace of pink on the nitrate test, not flaming fuschia; and ditto, very low phosphate: a tad more if you have blennies and herbivores.

WHich skimmers work best? The ones with the most foam, pretty well. I recommend you take to You Tube with some brand and model names and look at them in action before you settle. The videos are out there.

You're going to spend serious money for a better skimmer. Again, you can do TOO much. Some corals, such as softies, and to a certain extent lps, do not mind rich water. So there is a reason for 'middling effective' skimmers. But this is a point at which you do need to sit in front of your tank and ask yourself what you want to do with it, whether you want to do it with THIS tank, or a future tank, and do some research. In terms of allocation of money, once you get past 30 gallons and into the middle sized tanks, this is where it will start to matter more. When you get into reefs, understand that your corals have requirements, and you can't just pop into the store and buy what's new this week: you need to know the coral type, and you need to consider your nitrate levels. THis is where it's useful to come to RC and ask 'my nitrates are 20. Am I good for [coral name]?"

If your ambitions are running toward corals that like it in the zero-5s', time to take a look at the skimmer and the bioload and flow, etc, if you're not there yet.
 
Great explanation! I've been at this hobby for 12 years and didn't know amino acids break down into nitrate and phosphate over time. Thanks for the post and proving even an old dog can learn new tricks!
 
None of the 20 common amino acids contain phosphorus. All of them are formed by carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. Some of them (phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan) have aromatic side chains and cysteine contains sulphur. Therefore amino acids are not responsible for the release of phosphorus in aquaria. On the contrary, nucleic acids are very rich in phosphorus.
 
Aww. Thought you would throw in the term "Foam Fractionation"

It's one of my favorites! :spin3:

Good explaination.
 
Thank you for the note on phosphorus. I'm no biochemist, so I have to rely on articles. I have personally battled spiking nitrates (over 100) to a standstill after a blackout, but phosphate has not risen along with them, despite the total dieoff of a large cheato ball in the fuge. A better skimmer was definitely the best help.

SOmewhere on the internet is a picture of people frolicking in a massive 8 foot high wall of sea foam on the beach, and the only thing I could think was---oook. A whale must be lying demised on the sea bottom not too far from here.
 
As a new reef tanker (2 years), skimmers have got to be one of the most frustrating pieces of equipment for me. I'm on my second (a hang on back) and some days it froths really well and others not so much (though water levels and everything is the same). Is it just that my tank is going through cycles of higher nitrates or just the skimmer reacting differently to other stuff in the water? For example, started GFO to get phosphates down and my skimmer hasn't bubbled up for nearly 2 days (just some very wet skim). Despite the frustrations, I know how helpful they can be so I persevere!
 
I had the first cousin to a hob skimmer, which relied totally on bubbles instead of foam, and it was sufficient for a little sump and a 50 gallon tank, but as my system grew more complex (and dirtier) and then doubled in size---I switched to a similar, but still bubble, in-sump skimmer that just drove me berserk with its stops and starts. I replaced it with a bigger bubble skimmer, but when my system had a serious problem (dieoff after a power failure) 9 months of fussing with that skimmer couldn't get ahead of it. I finally, thanks to the kindness of a friend, laid hands on a foam-type [cone], that has knocked nitrate down very fast. I THINK that the problem may lie in the geometry of bubbles vs foam, that foam is just, with a lot more surface area to its bubbles, going to sop up stuff that much faster and hold it on those surfaces a lot more tenaciously. The texture of the foam this skimmer kicks up is more like shaving cream than like the Coca-Cola fizz of a bubble skimmer, is the only way I can describe it. When this one went into the place of the last bubble skimmer, it literally blew its lid off as it began to work. I had to weight it with a rock. It's calmed way down now that it has less crud to work with, so the rock isn't necessary, but that's how much gunk was in the water, even if the water looked clear.

If you put your hand in the water, your body oils knock down the skimming. If you feed, same thing. The real test of a skimmer is how it performs when neither of these things has happened in about 5 hours. I think with some of the bubble skimmers, the balance of air intake and water intake is so delicate that it just easily gets out of whack, plus the simple physical difference between bubbles and fairly stiff foam.
 
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Thanks, interesting stuff! Didnt know there were two types (foam vs bubble). I have a 45 gallon all in one, so I'm about maxed with the hob skimmer I have. With maintenance this weekend, I could have just thrown it out of whack. Hopefully it goes back 'online' soon, I get stressed when I don't see gunk getting pulled out. ;)

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks, interesting stuff! Didnt know there were two types (foam vs bubble).

Only in sk8rs world.. ;)

A bubble is a single object.
Foam is a collection of bubbles
Froth = Foam

Bubble size is one key aspect to the performance of a protein skimmer.. One which produces smaller bubbles will typically perform better..
Those smaller bubbles will also cling together better hence the shaving cream vs coke fizz comment...

So sk8r (she right?) could have said smaller bubble vs larger bubble skimmers... But bubble vs foam doesn't apply there..
 
My skimmer smells like a beach. It must be working. Question: tank has been up for 6 weeks. Skimmer has been running for at least three. No fish. 100+ lbs of live rock. 30 lbs of live rock. 4 inch sand bed. CUC with 2 skunk shrimp, a brittle star, 12 hermit, 2 emerald crabs, 24 snails and 6 turbos for at 3 weeks. Skimmer is putting out quit a bit of dark green brown skimmate and it has been continuous. I would not have thought to see this until fish put a bio load in the tank. I know I have a phosphate issue as I had a lot of algae grow quickly over the last 2 weeks. Put in phosphate remover. Seems to be making a difference but it has only been 24 hours with the lights off.

I would assume there was a bunch of dead material on the dead rock I received?
 
My skimmer smells like a beach. It must be working. Question: tank has been up for 6 weeks. Skimmer has been running for at least three. No fish. 100+ lbs of live rock. 30 lbs of live rock. 4 inch sand bed. CUC with 2 skunk shrimp, a brittle star, 12 hermit, 2 emerald crabs, 24 snails and 6 turbos for at 3 weeks. Skimmer is putting out quit a bit of dark green brown skimmate and it has been continuous. I would not have thought to see this until fish put a bio load in the tank. I know I have a phosphate issue as I had a lot of algae grow quickly over the last 2 weeks. Put in phosphate remover. Seems to be making a difference but it has only been 24 hours with the lights off.

I would assume there was a bunch of dead material on the dead rock I received?

lets see.. shrimp/crabs do poop.. check..
live rock with some dead material (always is some)...check..
skimmate has a green tint to it... algae is green.. check..
life is happening in the tank.. check..
yep.. skimmate for you..
 
Funny! Didn't think I would see this much dark goo so early. Since it smells like the beach, wonder if my wife can put her head near the sump and dream of far off fancy places? More to spend on the tank if I don't have to pay for the vacation!!!
 
Bought a skimmer about 3 weeks ago and couldn't believe what it removed from my water. Only bad thing is the close pin on the nose when you clean it
 
Great explanation! I've been at this hobby for 12 years and didn't know amino acids break down into nitrate and phosphate over time. Thanks for the post and proving even an old dog can learn new tricks!

None of the 20 common amino acids contain phosphorus. All of them are formed by carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. Some of them (phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan) have aromatic side chains and cysteine contains sulphur. Therefore amino acids are not responsible for the release of phosphorus in aquaria. On the contrary, nucleic acids are very rich in phosphorus.

And now we see how easy it is for bad information to get passed along even by the smart and well intentioned! Now I'll have to go off and do some research on my own...
 
Let me know what you find out. All my sources but this one are saying phosphate as well as nitrate, so I have to wonder if we have some un-common amino acids. I can say I lost a foot-wide ball of cheato during the blackout (along with all the worms and inverts and several fish), and have not had an algae problem, but I have had one heckuva nitrate level, resisting all remediation including, past a certain level, NoPoX, which might perhaps have chewed up the phosphate? Used several months of NoPoX. The home stretch, the removal of nitrate between 30 and 50, was all skimmer change.
 
Back in the 80's, there wasn't a heck of a lot of skimmers to choose from. I remember the Red Sea turbo coming out, and later would own one. Learning why something was important and how things worked was part of reefing back then. This was the first skimmer I ever had/made. A Tetra Luft pump and 2 air stones powered it. On my at the time 90 gallon reef, it would pull almost a half gallon of gunk a week.

DEF_9799.jpg
 

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