Slowly coming back to the hobby

[bobafet1]

After swearing that I would never return I'm getting that darn itch again...been ignoring it for a while but every so often I'll have a dream where I'm setting up a tank again and I can't help but feel very happy. I guess that's my happy moment in life. In any case, I use to build stands for people back in the mid-late 2000's. I have one stand left that I saved for myself that was made from walnut. The footprint fits a 48" x 24" base. So, I'm considering a 120 gal or 100 gal starfire tank. If anyone has a clean one for sale please let me know. I'm sure much has changed from when I left so any advice would be appreciated on equipment. More specifically:

1. Lighting-what's the latest/greatest these days
2. Sump-does anyone still use a refugium or is it all setup with dosers now.
3. Automation-any decent products out there that are mac friendly?
4. Overflow- I use to rock the durso but when I was leaving the hobby there was a whole other setup that came out with 3 pipes...forgot what it was called..something with someone's name it in...herbie or something..LOL
5. Basically, what's the latest gear that won't break the bank. I just want something that works and not so much concerned about how blingie my gear looks, especially when it's behind a cabinet door.

My new tank will be mostly fish and probably softies. SPS were always challenging for me and heart breaking when they would crash. Going to take it real slow this time around and be very careful with fish/coral selection. One of the things I regretted the most was being extremely IRRESPONSIBLE by buying whatever looked nice, just like the fish in my avatar. This time around I really want to do the right thing and make sure what I place in my tank belongs in a tank my size.

Also, if anyone is still out there that I hooked up back in the day then it would be nice if ya'll can help me out with any frags when my tank has fully cycled.

Mike

 

[griss]

Welcome back. I’m pretty old school.

I’m still using MH.

I have a refugium, dose BRS supplements and use a carbon/GFO reactor on occasion.

I didn’t start using automation until recently when I bought a used Apex. I like it.

There’s BeanAnimal (by our own @BeanAnimal), Durso and Herbie. IMO it’s personal preference but Bean might get mad at me for saying that

The hobby has gotten a lot more expensive. But, there are a lot more options out there.

 

[frogiii]

Me too..... I'm back but not as what I used to have as far as the equipment. I'm going to stay with small nano tank and will not blow up to any bigger than the 25g tank. I've 15g nano now and maybe just maybe get up to 25g tank. I've my eyes on the waterbox 25 Peninsula now.

 

[reefing102]

Welcome back!

Lighting is all going to depend on budget.

Most lighting nowadays is LED. There’s still some halide and T5 but the vast majority is now LED. Many of the LED reef lights will be sufficient for what you want. You’ll probably be looking at at least two fixtures for that size tank.

At the top price end: Two of any of these: Radion XR30, Neptune Sky, or AI Hydra 64 should provide enough coverage.

Mid Range Price: Two - Reefi Uno 2.0

Low End: Two: Viparspectra, SmatFarm, NiCrew, Noopsyche or similar would work.

In the end it boils down to price, features, warranty and related support (or lack thereof), and ultimately coverage. In the low price point I didn’t specify models (some models will have better coverage, features, etc than others).

For example, the Viparspectra is 2 channel control and does not have an app last I knew. SmatFarm is 6 channel control but no app and as I have one of the G5 models, quite frankly the spectrum leaves a bit to be desired to really get that color “pop,” but it grows coral and anemones just fine. NiCrew, I personally wouldn’t buy another NiCrew product unless significant advancements have been made but that’s just my personal experience with the lack of control in the one light I’ve purchased. Reefi Uno has a great reputation but the app and UI can be a bit dated looking.

I’m also a user of the KIS (keep it simple) method. I run a sump and a doser to dose all for reef. I don’t run any other equipment (algae turf scrubber, algae reactors, filter rollers, etc). The only upgrade in the future is a calcium reactor.

Hope this helps some!

 

[bobafet1]

Welcome back!

Lighting is all going to depend on budget.

Most lighting nowadays is LED. There’s still some halide and T5 but the vast majority is now LED. Many of the LED reef lights will be sufficient for what you want. You’ll probably be looking at at least two fixtures for that size tank.

At the top price end: Two of any of these: Radion XR30, Neptune Sky, or AI Hydra 64 should provide enough coverage.

Mid Range Price: Two - Reefi Uno 2.0

Low End: Two: Viparspectra, SmatFarm, NiCrew, Noopsyche or similar would work.

In the end it boils down to price, features, warranty and related support (or lack thereof), and ultimately coverage. In the low price point I didn’t specify models (some models will have better coverage, features, etc than others).

For example, the Viparspectra is 2 channel control and does not have an app last I knew. SmatFarm is 6 channel control but no app and as I have one of the G5 models, quite frankly the spectrum leaves a bit to be desired to really get that color “pop,” but it grows coral and anemones just fine. NiCrew, I personally wouldn’t buy another NiCrew product unless significant advancements have been made but that’s just my personal experience with the lack of control in the one light I’ve purchased. Reefi Uno has a great reputation but the app and UI can be a bit dated looking.

I’m also a user of the KIS (keep it simple) method. I run a sump and a doser to dose all for reef. I don’t run any other equipment (algae turf scrubber, algae reactors, filter rollers, etc). The only upgrade in the future is a calcium reactor.

Hope this helps some!

thanks for the informative reply. Looks like the major players for lighting haven’t changed much. I don’t mind spending money on high end stuff, just not going to spend it on dumb $h!t like custom colored plumbing (yeah, I know that probably offended some…sorry). Never heard of algae reactors….my first reef tank had a small refugium and it was pretty solid until I started messing with it and trying to make it high tech..keeping it simple and slow is what I’ve learned as best in this hobby….for me anyways.

 

[Jimbo327]

Welcome back. I remember your custom stands, those were high quality stands.

I just got back into the hobby about 6 months ago. So here is what I've observed.

I think the biggest difference now is that you don't want to bottom out nitrate and phosphates. And dead rock and negative space aquascaping is the norm now. With that comes with new problems like dinoflagellates, etc. Pest are so common that QT and coral dips are a must.

To control nitrates: I would say most of the people still rocking the refugium/chaeto/algae scrubber...and the remaining are doing carbon dosing.

Lights are mostly LEDs now. MH is going away because it's hard to source bulbs and heat. T5 is being replaced by LED light bars. Most people are using Radion LEDs, but it's becoming more diversified in last few years with a lot of different choices.

Skimmer is still a skimmer. Calcium/Alk is either Kalk, calcium reactor or 2 part, so that's still the same.

Controllers: I would say if you are used to APEX, then it's still the same. But a new company called Hydros is what a lot of people use now. Those are the 2 big reef controllers.

Powerheads are pretty much the same...MP, Nero, Tunze and Gyre. Just more brands.

For ATO, lots of choices. I personally like Tunze Osmolator, and they just came out with V3.

And now you have 10x the amount of supplements from AF, TM, Zeo, Reef Moonshiners, etc etc etc. Also Bottled Bacteria, Phyto and Copepod is now very popular to dose routinely.

And prepare for a sticker shock on corals and fish...a yellow tang costs like $300 now. LOL.

If you wipe your tank now, it is almost financial prohibitive to restart.

 

[bobafet1]

Welcome back. I remember your custom stands, those were high quality stands.

I just got back into the hobby about 6 months ago. So here is what I've observed.

I think the biggest difference now is that you don't want to bottom out nitrate and phosphates. And dead rock and negative space aquascaping is the norm now. With that comes with new problems like dinoflagellates, etc. Pest are so common that QT and coral dips are a must.

To control nitrates: I would say most of the people still rocking the refugium/chaeto/algae scrubber...and the remaining are doing carbon dosing.

Lights are mostly LEDs now. MH is going away because it's hard to source bulbs and heat. T5 is being replaced by LED light bars. Most people are using Radion LEDs, but it's becoming more diversified in last few years with a lot of different choices.

Skimmer is still a skimmer. Calcium/Alk is either Kalk, calcium reactor or 2 part, so that's still the same.

Controllers: I would say if you are used to APEX, then it's still the same. But a new company called Hydros is what a lot of people use now. Those are the 2 big reef controllers.

Powerheads are pretty much the same...MP, Nero, Tunze and Gyre. Just more brands.

For ATO, lots of choices. I personally like Tunze Osmolator, and they just came out with V3.

And now you have 10x the amount of supplements from AF, TM, Zeo, Reef Moonshiners, etc etc etc. Also Bottled Bacteria, Phyto and Copepod is now very popular to dose routinely.

And prepare for a sticker shock on corals and fish...a yellow tang costs like $300 now. LOL.

If you wipe your tank now, it is almost financial prohibitive to restart.

Holy cow, sounds like the market was driven up way too much. I'll probably be on the lookout for someone leaving the hobby so I can buy up their livestock at a discount.

 

[reefing102]

@Jimbo327 is not wrong. If you liked the Hawaiian fish, good luck. A collection ban was put into place and then overturned but they’ve refused to issue new collection permits so any Hawaiian fish you see that are wild are likely to be very expensive or captive bred (Biota and others aquaculture various fish including the yellow tang but it’s still around $200 for something about the size of a quarter). Other fish are still relatively reasonable but nowhere near the prices of a few years ago. A tank breakdown is a great way to get a good deal, and you’re coming up into what I like to call “tank breakdown season”. People got new tanks for Christmas as new hobbyists, now they’re realizing the work or something’s just not working out and they’re looking to unload it. Be patient. Some will try to sell at or near retail, others will take pennies on the dollar.

 

[griss]

A tank breakdown is a great way to get a good deal, and you’re coming up into what I like to call “tank breakdown season”. People got new tanks for Christmas as new hobbyists, now they’re realizing the work or something’s just not working out and they’re looking to unload it. Be patient. Some will try to sell at or near retail, others will take pennies on the dollar.

Add to that, it's spring. Historically, as we move into summer people's interested shift to outdoor activities. It seems people who have been on the fence about getting out of the hobby tend to do so in the summer.

 

[Jimbo327]

The Hawaiian fishes skyrocketed in price. The other fishes are still fairly reasonable. Named corals game is out of control though, haha. If you want a holy grail this and WWC that, then it's going to be $$$. But if you stick with the oldies but goodies, it is still reasonable to stock a tank. You will now find that there are 100 variations of a hammer, torch, frogspawn. LOL.

I think the hobby has a lot more knowledge now.

Just an example, dinoflagellates is the norm for many new tanks starting with dead rock and sand. Back in the days, you would almost never see it with live rocks and live sand. But there is a whole science on defeating them now, and it involves looking at the cells under microscope. And there obviously is a bunch of products for you to try from antibiotics, bacteria, to algaecide, dosing silicates, etc etc etc. It's gotten a lot more science and technical.

And that's with everything. Now you do ICP testing (Test you send to a real lab for like $50) and they test all of the elements in your water. Or aquabiomics, which tests the bacterias in your water. It's crazy how much there is available. The more you know, haha.

But since you've already been in the hobby, it's pretty easy to just stick to the basics of your previous successful tanks. It still works. But now, you just have a lot more available knowledge and products that is available commercially.

Personally, I'm mixing in lots of the new knowledge, but I'm still doing a lot the old school way. I've definitely embraced the controller and dosers, and automation. I'm doing simple carbon dosing of vodka. No fuge. Calc/Alk is just a simple 2-part that I DIY mix myself. Most of the supplements, I just buy the powder and have a life time of DIY mixes. I also started ICP testing and minimal water changes.

One more thing, filter socks are a thing of the past. There are roller mats now.

 

[m0nkie]

suppp Mike. you will find everything breaks the bank now. best to get some basic equipment to run and corals from the hobbyist

Lighting is going toward more LED now. some people run T5/LED. most MH are gone. I'm currently running Reef Breeder Photon LED with T5 supplement. recently added some AI Blade LED bar supplement. grows everything.

Sump is still mandatory. basic ones or fancy ones depend on your budget. can be just a normal 3 section (equipment, refugium, return) or fancy PVC sumps with all the equipment, dosers, scrubbers, rollermats, etc.

Automation is still fairly same. APEX or Hydros are top 2. Research these and go all in on 1 of them. I'm sticking with APEX since the support community is huge. Hydros is newer and seem to have more reliable equipment.

Overflow. I think most run 3 pipe Bean Animal. Durso works fine

I agree on the trend going toward higher nutrient now. Don't see too many people run ULN tanks. I try to hover around 0.1 PO4 and 15-20 PO3. most times I end up at 0.2 PO4 and 30 PO3

My system is simple. Skimmer, GFO, dark Cryptic Refugium (Rocks and Sponge), Lighted Refugium (macro algae for nutrient reduction).

Dose Kalk for Alk/Calcium and supplement with 2 part.

Moonshine dose for trace elements. I run an ICP test monthly to see my water parameter. adjust accordingly.

I have automated water change system and do 1/5 water change monthly. just to reduce certain unwanted trace elements

if you still got my number, message me when the tank is setup. I can stock your tank with a bunch of corals

 

[bobafet1]

suppp Mike. you will find everything breaks the bank now. best to get some basic equipment to run and corals from the hobbyist

Lighting is going toward more LED now. some people run T5/LED. most MH are gone. I'm currently running Reef Breeder Photon LED with T5 supplement. recently added some AI Blade LED bar supplement. grows everything.

Sump is still mandatory. basic ones or fancy ones depend on your budget. can be just a normal 3 section (equipment, refugium, return) or fancy PVC sumps with all the equipment, dosers, scrubbers, rollermats, etc.

Automation is still fairly same. APEX or Hydros are top 2. Research these and go all in on 1 of them. I'm sticking with APEX since the support community is huge. Hydros is newer and seem to have more reliable equipment.

Overflow. I think most run 3 pipe Bean Animal. Durso works fine

I agree on the trend going toward higher nutrient now. Don't see too many people run ULN tanks. I try to hover around 0.1 PO4 and 15-20 PO3. most times I end up at 0.2 PO4 and 30 PO3

My system is simple. Skimmer, GFO, dark Cryptic Refugium (Rocks and Sponge), Lighted Refugium (macro algae for nutrient reduction).

Dose Kalk for Alk/Calcium and supplement with 2 part.

Moonshine dose for trace elements. I run an ICP test monthly to see my water parameter. adjust accordingly.

I have automated water change system and do 1/5 water change monthly. just to reduce certain unwanted trace elements

if you still got my number, message me when the tank is setup. I can stock your tank with a bunch of corals

I probably still have your number. Mine is still the same. I appreciate the offer. I just may hit you up when I’m ready. Cryptic refugium? I didn’t realize that came back…I remember Steven Tyree marketing his magical sponges many many years ago but it didn’t take off as much…guess it came back. How’s your tank doing? Got any shots? I remember coming over when you were just setting it up

 

[bobafet1]

The Hawaiian fishes skyrocketed in price. The other fishes are still fairly reasonable. Named corals game is out of control though, haha. If you want a holy grail this and WWC that, then it's going to be $$$. But if you stick with the oldies but goodies, it is still reasonable to stock a tank. You will now find that there are 100 variations of a hammer, torch, frogspawn. LOL.

I think the hobby has a lot more knowledge now.

Just an example, dinoflagellates is the norm for many new tanks starting with dead rock and sand. Back in the days, you would almost never see it with live rocks and live sand. But there is a whole science on defeating them now, and it involves looking at the cells under microscope. And there obviously is a bunch of products for you to try from antibiotics, bacteria, to algaecide, dosing silicates, etc etc etc. It's gotten a lot more science and technical.

And that's with everything. Now you do ICP testing (Test you send to a real lab for like $50) and they test all of the elements in your water. Or aquabiomics, which tests the bacterias in your water. It's crazy how much there is available. The more you know, haha.

But since you've already been in the hobby, it's pretty easy to just stick to the basics of your previous successful tanks. It still works. But now, you just have a lot more available knowledge and products that is available commercially.

Personally, I'm mixing in lots of the new knowledge, but I'm still doing a lot the old school way. I've definitely embraced the controller and dosers, and automation. I'm doing simple carbon dosing of vodka. No fuge. Calc/Alk is just a simple 2-part that I DIY mix myself. Most of the supplements, I just buy the powder and have a life time of DIY mixes. I also started ICP testing and minimal water changes.

One more thing, filter socks are a thing of the past. There are roller mats now.

I can’t blame Hawaii for banning their fish…I’ll probably get flamed for this but there should be more bans on many of the stuff that’s imported…if you’re really concerned about the overall longevity of the natural reef. But, here I am coming back….so I know I’m part to blame..but, hopefully I can source all my livestock from others as I will make it a point not to buy “new”.

 

[bobafet1]

@Jimbo327 is not wrong. If you liked the Hawaiian fish, good luck. A collection ban was put into place and then overturned but they’ve refused to issue new collection permits so any Hawaiian fish you see that are wild are likely to be very expensive or captive bred (Biota and others aquaculture various fish including the yellow tang but it’s still around $200 for something about the size of a quarter). Other fish are still relatively reasonable but nowhere near the prices of a few years ago. A tank breakdown is a great way to get a good deal, and you’re coming up into what I like to call “tank breakdown season”. People got new tanks for Christmas as new hobbyists, now they’re realizing the work or something’s just not working out and they’re looking to unload it. Be patient. Some will try to sell at or near retail, others will take pennies on the dollar.

I remember visiting Hawaii many years back and getting a collection permit prior to my trip. I then caught some live fish out of the front of my hotel and shipped them back on my flight….or so I thought……the F’n airline delayed my package and sent it on the next flight…unfortunately, everything perished. I was so freaking pissed but it was all my fault. I should have left Nemo alone. Haha

 

[ThatPoolBoy]

Just got back in the hobby myself. 1 week in and I have already spent 2k just on the basics got a good deal on OfferUp with a 100g setup (tank, stand, canopy, 60lbs live rock, sand, sump, protein skimmer, iwaki return pump and some cheap led bar) $550. I’m on OfferUp everyday looking for deals. People don’t realize there’s no resale value on this stuff so you can bargain some good deals.

I’m so far behind the with all this new tec now a days I’m old school MH T5 guy reef keeper controllers ( which are impossible to find lol)

Go on OfferUp a lot of tanks for sale. I saw some 120s on there

 

[griss]

Just got back in the hobby myself. 1 week in and I have already spent 2k just on the basics got a good deal on OfferUp with a 100g setup (tank, stand, canopy, 60lbs live rock, sand, sump, protein skimmer, iwaki return pump and some cheap led bar) $550. I’m on OfferUp everyday looking for deals. People don’t realize there’s no resale value on this stuff so you can bargain some good deals.

I’m so far behind the with all this new tec now a days I’m old school MH T5 guy reef keeper controllers ( which are impossible to find lol)

Go on OfferUp a lot of tanks for sale. I saw some 120s on there

I run across Reef Keeper Controllers and components on FB Marketplace and eBay every once in a while. I've got an (older) Apex Jr so I have just ignored them. But, if you're looking, those might be some places to check.

And I'm with you on lighting. Running MH with actinic LED light bar. But, I have T5 actinics for my upgrade.

 

[five.five-six]

1. Lighting-what's the latest/greatest these days

Still halide

:hide: :flamesuit:

 

[m0nkie]

MH is great but i gotta cut down on electrical cost.. 600 a month on top of solar. With MH i was around 800+

I miss having MH and grow anything anywhere. Now i have trouble getting my sandbed lit with 100 par

 

[reefing102]

MH is great but i gotta cut down on electrical cost.. 600 a month on top of solar. With MH i was around 800+

I miss having MH and grow anything anywhere. Now i have trouble getting my sandbed lit with 100 par

The issue is LEDs are becoming less and less “energy saving” as far as reef lights is concerned. I mean a Reefi uno 2 is 270watts, 215 watts, orphek Atlantic 235watts. I would need two of either of these fixtures for my tank. Granted we don’t run LED at 100% typically so there’s some savings plus AC cost savings, however, I don’t know about the ones mentioned but some LED systems put off a ton of heat.

I’m not saying don’t go LED but the cost difference for me isn’t what it needs to be currently to go with new LED fixtures over my current halides.

 

[ThatPoolBoy]

I run across Reef Keeper Controllers and components on FB Marketplace and eBay every once in a while. I've got an (older) Apex Jr so I have just ignored them. But, if you're looking, those might be some places to check.

And I'm with you on lighting. Running MH with actinic LED light bar. But, I have T5 actinics for my upgrade.

I will check it out. I was on eBay last week and just found a head unit and not the power bar for a Reef Keeper. Also I saw 48” MH fixture 3 150w bulbs for $100 with ballast on OfferUp. Are bulbs hard to find now a days? Thats the only thing stopping me from buying it. I just run 4 Super Blue T5s and a cheap led bar for extra color right now. Rigging up that fixture with my T5s would be awesome.