Snake oil doctor's fish looked great yesterday

I love seeing this passion! I now have an ich free display thanks to copper and a 65 gallon qt setup. I've beat ich with ttm but if you don't have a clean established tank to take water from I dunno if I would recommend this.
My one concern with ich is if it's not present at the time you Bring it home are ttm or copper even a viable remedy or do you need to stress out the fish starting the life cycle of ich so you can use ttm to get rid of it?
I will say tho that the two biggest and most impressive sps tanks I've seen both have achellis tangs with ich from time to time.
 
awesome, i love seeing more of this..........

awesome, i love seeing more of this..........

I love seeing this passion! I now have an ich free display thanks to copper and a 65 gallon qt setup. I've beat ich with ttm but if you don't have a clean established tank to take water from I dunno if I would recommend this.
My one concern with ich is if it's not present at the time you Bring it home are ttm or copper even a viable remedy or do you need to stress out the fish starting the life cycle of ich so you can use ttm to get rid of it?
I will say tho that the two biggest and most impressive sps tanks I've seen both have achellis tangs with ich from time to time.

Well, it is awesome that some hobbyists beat the ich and do have an ich free tank. Awesome lynchmob3000. Yea it possible to have a ich free tank and hobbyists striving to achieve it is an awesome thing.
I will do it one day (I'm not sure whether there is ich or not in my tank right now. I did tank transfer method on a newly set up display, only few more weeks will tell me).
Finally, a positive thinking in eliminating ich.
 
I love seeing this passion! I now have an ich free display thanks to copper and a 65 gallon qt setup. I've beat ich with ttm but if you don't have a clean established tank to take water from I dunno if I would recommend this.
My one concern with ich is if it's not present at the time you Bring it home are ttm or copper even a viable remedy or do you need to stress out the fish starting the life cycle of ich so you can use ttm to get rid of it?
I will say tho that the two biggest and most impressive sps tanks I've seen both have achellis tangs with ich from time to time.


Ich is already on the fish when you bring it home. Stress doesn't start it. Stress allows ich to become much stronger, enough for you to see the symptoms directly.

It is best to use ttm/copper before ich has gotten so bad that you see it. If you wait, it becomes harder to beat, and risky to the fish.
 
Agree with you on this

Agree with you on this

Ich is already on the fish when you bring it home. Stress doesn't start it. Stress allows ich to become much stronger, enough for you to see the symptoms directly.

It is best to use ttm/copper before ich has gotten so bad that you see it. If you wait, it becomes harder to beat, and risky to the fish.

I totally agree with you on this mattcoug. I completely agree with you, ich has to be there on your fish (usually as trophonts) for the stress to bring it out and make it stronger. But if you read some comments you will notice several misconceptions, One thinks it is like herpes and it hides inside the body forever like how herpes hides inside the body on nerve endings, and comes back when the fish is stressed (wrong), and another thinks that no matter what the ich will be there on the fish's body for atleast 6 months and one needs to QT for 6 months (wrong) etc. Even the people who are in the hobby for more than 10 yrs don't put the time to understand the life cycle of ich. Yeah, they just know it is a disease, and they think it just randomly comes and goes when the fish is stressed; but, by their comments, you can clearly see that they don't have a clear understanding of the life cycle of the ich. They fail to understand that the ich should already be there in your tank continuously in one of its lifecycle stage for it to appear and disappear later.
 
So your saying to start ttm on every fish you receive to rid ich even tho it hasn't appeared on the skin of the fish at all? And you are 100 percent sure on this?
 
yes that is correct, that's exactly what I'm saying

yes that is correct, that's exactly what I'm saying

So your saying to start ttm on every fish you receive to rid ich even tho it hasn't appeared on the skin of the fish at all? And you are 100 percent sure on this?

QT = Quarantine Tank (my QT has biological filtration established)

TTM = Tank Transfer Method (no need for biological filtration in TTM tanks since the fish stays only for 2 to 3 days here, just limit the feedings)

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I do tank transfer method on all of the newly acquired fish, whether I see ich on them or not, it doesn't matter. Yes, I'm 100% sure on that. The trophonts can hide in the gills, so it is really impossible to tell whether a newly acquired fish has trophonts on its body or not. Yes, to have a foolproof method, I do TTM on every fish I newly get. Also, I QT the fish for three or more weeks after the TTM is complete in a system where biological filter is already established. To me QT is one among the most important step, as important as the TTM itself, i.e., put a bright light on top of QT, establish biological filtration on QT (not on TTM tanks) and keep looking at the fish's skin for any skin imperfections or trophonts on fish everyday for atleast three weeks after Tank transfer method is complete. If you see a white spot, then prolong QT, and only after you are completely satisfied that the skin imperfections are not Ich, you can transfer the fish into display.

With the tangs, they can show some skin imperfections even after TTM, and it may not even be ich. It can fool you very easily and you may end up catching all the fish immediately from your display to do the TTM again. Restrain from it, and just watch for another three weeks before doing anything. That's what I'm learning now. It may be bacteria, virus or some minor thing, and you have to make sure it is not ich before you release the fish in display. If you do see a spot on tang then prolong QT for another three weeks, and if it is ick and IF YOU HAVE A TANG(Except vlamingi tang), then it will come in waves, the skin will have multiple spots and you can't miss it. If it is ich, then do TTM again/sanitize the QT as well, and think about what went wrong the previous time so that you can close the loop and do it better the next time.
I have two types of tanks for two different processes, some are the tanks I use for tank transfer method and some are the tanks I use for QT, and I try not to mix these tanks.

This is what happened to me, After I did TTM and I put the Powder Blue tang on QT for three weeks; but, the QT didn't have bright light, so it was kind of hard to monitor the fish's skin imperfections. But altogether the skin looked spotless during QT. I transferred it to display and then saw a spot in a week, I thought it was ich(that was two weeks ago), but now it seems like it is just some skin imperfection to me at this point. well, in another couple of weeks I can definitely say whether it is ich or not for sure. Two weeks ago when I first noticed the fish with the spot, I caught the powder blue tang (along with its white spot/ without the white spot falling off of the fish) and put it in QT. Now, if it is ich then I will see it in Waves of ich in next few weeks. I haven't so far. There are reasons why I separated the tang from the display tank while I left the other fish in the display for now. Here are the two reasons, one is I want to know for sure whether it is ich or not, and the other reason is to prevent a tank wipeout. Tangs can act like petri dish for ich and promote a ich bloom, and that may help wipe out the whole tank. Without the TANG in the tank that equation changes. Ich will be there but it may take longer time to become a ich bloom or it may not even become a bloom. Ich in some numbers may not cause tank wipeout but ich bloom certainly will.

Who knows, I might already have a ich-free display already now. I can confirm this in next two weeks for sure; whether I have ich in my display or not.
 
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getting rid of infectious disease is not purely theoretical

getting rid of infectious disease is not purely theoretical

If someone says getting rid of an infectious disease is purely theoretical and not possible in real world, then don't listen to that advice.
we have (almost) eradicated /cured smallpox, polio, malaria, measles, hookworm etc in humans and it is certainly doable in fish as well. Getting rid of Ich is not fighting against mother nature or anything like that. It is just we need to follow certain methods to get rid of the infectious disease like ich. That's all. With proper precaution and understanding of the disease, and with persistence one can easily have a ich free tank.
 
Thanks for the info! I was under the impression it had to be quite visible before you could disturb the life cycle by jumping from clean tank to clean tank. Thanks again cause now this may cut my qt time down in the future.
 
you are welcome

you are welcome

keep in mind that fish can't be more than 72 hrs in a tank and you have to keep doing TTM for a minimum of 12 days.

The other day I was doing TTM and a drop of water from the used tank fell into clean tank filled with 30 gallon. In this situation what I started doing is: Heat the water to 130 F and then let it cool to 77 F. This will sterilize any trophonts (if) had fallen into the clean tank from the dirty water. I'm not recommending this to anyone but this works for me and there is no reason why it shouldn't work. It is always good to have sterilization capability.

At 130 F even the tomonts will die and there is no room for Dormancy

Good luck
 
my ttm set up

my ttm set up

So I have another set of 5 tanks in garage. so total of 10 tanks makes my life easy.

 
sterilizing the suspected contamination

sterilizing the suspected contamination

sterilizing the tank at 130 F because I thought I saw a drop of water from the used dirty tank fall into the clean 30 gallon which was ready for TTM. Didn't want to waste that 30 gallon of saltwater.

 
very good point

very good point


Very good point; however, I think it is more for the quarantine and displays. But for tank transfer method tanks, the only thing (as far as ich) will be in the tank transfer tanks is the trophonts. It will be very unlikely for this huge trophonts to be aerosolized transmission. On the other hand theronts might do it. At least that's my take. As soon as the trophonts fall off the fish, they crawl to the bottom and moreover they seem too big for aerosol transmission. One should explicitly ask snorvich about this technicality. From what I have read in the past from articles is that they placed a tank close to a infected tank (all stages of ich life stages are there), then they saw the new tank also got infected. How does this apply to tank transfer tanks that are in proximity? I don't know.
but good point though. Either way I have covered it for other reasons (fish jumping). I do believe that when we place tank transfer tanks there will be some small cross contaminations like aerosol, spill etc but the it all comes to probability. It is my opinion that it is impossible to do TTM with zero cross contamination. But even with this cross contamination, the success rate of the TTM is definitely more than 90%. I already completed a batch a month ago and it was a success. Now I'm running two batches and already two transfers are done and there are two remaining. so let's see how it comes out. All it comes to is the % of success. If it is anything more than 90% then I'm so happy with it.
 
host fish factor

host fish factor

Marine Ich getting so strong to a point where it could wipe out your tank depends on various factors such as salinity, temp, water quality etc but I think one of the most important factor is the HOST fish. Tangs are bad news, because they are the best host for ich. Some tangs will help get ich very strong very fast, and make it a ich bloom and wipe out all of the fish in your tank. That being said I have a tank full of all kinds of tangs. Without ich though. lol
The only tang that I have seen not that susceptible to ich is the vlamingi tang, but it is little ugly(to me) and grows so fast so large. All other tangs are bad news as far as ich is concerned.
 
fish catcher

fish catcher

I never catch a fish with net; especially for tank transfer method, you may end up damaging fish's skin/scales/fins that may lead to secondary infections. You definitely don't want that. So here is what I do. I catch it with a square colander that lines up very well with the rectangular edged tanks. I some times even use kordon fish catcher. This is a must if you have any genicanthus, filefish, tangs or any big fish in general. Even for small fish I use colander. For big fish I straight away use colander but for tiny ones I may chase the fish with a small net into a colander and then lift it. Even with safe fish catching methods, the skin may have microscratches, so I use 50 mg/ gal of Nitrofurazone to keep the infections away on those scratched regions. Another benefit of the colander is that very little water from one tank goes into the next/another one in a tank transfer method. They sell three different sizes of this colander in amazon.

 
Since then I QT everything: fish, corals, rocks, CUC, algae...
I had multiple events in my tank since then: broken heater causing low temp, ATO overflow, aggressive fish, skimmer overflow, and even a on-the-rush move in which I stressed the entire tank unnecessary. Through all this I lost some corals, but my fish never showed ANY signs of ich.

What do you do to QT corals? Do you dip too? Or put in QT tank without dip and wait 4 weeks? Or something else? I'm thinking this makes sense -- just trying to understand how to put it into practice for non-fish.

I'm just starting out and made some mistakes but now my cycling tank is going to be fallow for a while (fed with fish food or ammonium chloride) while my lone fish is in a QT tank. I made a bunch of mistakes including dumping the acclimation water in that was part mine, mostly from fish store, trying to put fish in too early, etc.

So I burned my fingers and want to avoid burning them again.
 
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