So you got a new fish tank Newbie

[hersh007]

Awesome article, wish I would have read this before setup. I have an off the PH topic style question regarding stocking tanks for you WK. Is there a guideline number (like 1 snail per gallon) of fish per gallon in a tank?

I know we want clowns in the tank so I've printed off the clown fish article compatibility chart but I don't know how many fish to get lol.

My "stats":
I have a 72G Bow Front that's been up for over 6 months with 2 250W MH's and 2 PC's, 20 Gal Sump with fuge, Aqua C skimmer with TBS's "The Package." We have tons of baby coral, clams and im sure there is bad stuff too, (we haven't "added" anything they are all hitchhiker's including the coral), but the tank seems to be doing well.
We are ready to add fish but the number to add is what's difficult.

I know you do not want to do specifics on what breeds to get with what breeds so how 'bout a guideline for us newb's to get our tank stocked? How many fish, or inches of fish can a gallon of water hold? =)

References I've looked at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422142&highlight=stocking
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=420962&highlight=stocking
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419921&highlight=stocking

And this one, this sounds like a PACKED tank:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...perpage=25&highlight=Tang Police&pagenumber=2

 

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Hersh,

I see you've been around RC for awhile but never got the official
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

The old rule of thumb is a carryover from FW day. The common value cited is one inch of fish per 5 gallons of water. It is not a very good rule. So much depends on the habits of the fish. You can put some very large Moray eels in a fairly small tank as they don't swim around too much. On the other hand, an active fish like a tang, needs more room and hence a larger tank than one would expect. Many of the on-line pet stores give some guidelines on the size tank you need for that fish. Next comes the number of fish your tank will hold. Here, in general, a FO tank can have more fish that a true reef. Having a sump, as you do, is also a plus as the extra water volume will support more fish. I've had as many as 11 fish in a 55 ranging from a few only a couple inches long to one that was 9" long. It was a bit crowded especially since in those day sumps and skimmers were seldom seen and biological filtration was rare. I think the only reason I didn't lose a bunch of fish is I was a stickler about water changes doing about 20-25% per week.

Sorry if this seems a cop out but there is no true answer to your question. I do know if you post a pic of that 72 with 4 tangs and 3 full sized angels in it the general RC audience will let you know you're a bit overstocked.

 

[jbucholz]

Having obtained the Southdown there are two methods to add it. The sloppy fast method--put a bucket under the overflow on the tank and just dump in the sand through the water in the tank

With either method you can expect a sandstorm. With the "sloppy" method it takes about 3-5 days to fully clear, with the "neat" method perhaps a day or two less.

Crystal, I would let the sand storm abate before starting up your pumps. Circulation slows the settling and, as you mentioned, can damage the pumps.

OK. I'm in the process of setting up a new tank and I have gotten to the point where I am adding sand. I purchased the Southdown, and chose the sloppy method for adding the sand. Of course, I experienced the resultant sandstorm and, per instructions, I turned the pumps off to allow the sandstorm to abate.

After the sand settled, I figured I was ready for the next step, but I was wrong. When I turned the pumps back on, it was as if I had not waited at all. The pumps stirred up the sand and now I am once again waiting for storm #2 to abate. I know that when I turn the pumps on again, the same thing will happen.

Did I miss a step?

- Jim

 

[WaterKeeper]

Not really Jim,

What happens next depends on two things; 1- how much LS is in the mix and 2- how your pump discharges into the main tank.

If you go with a dead sand, like Southdown, there is no "glue" on the sand. By "glue" I mean the bacteria film that grows on the sand grains. The bacteria secrete polysaccharides ( a $5 word for sugars) that form a sticky glue that tends to hold the sand in pace. If you add sufficient LS to a Southdown bed this process happens in a week or two. If you don't seed your bed it can take much longer. True the LR will seed a dead sand base but again it is not as effective as a healthy dose of good LS.

The second factor is how your discharge enters the main tank. If it impacts directly into the bed it will stir things up. When using a sump I like to fashion a manifold for the return line. This is just a piece of PVC pipe that runs horizontal and parallel to the sand surface. The pipe has holes drilled in it that are at an angle of 30-45 degrees away from the sandbed and direct the water upward. This help keep the sump return water from directly stirring the bed. It also provides current along the length of the tank. If you use powerheads in the tank you want their flow to be directed upward toward the surface.

One other thing that you can do after the initial settling is to run a canister filter with polishing element. A 1 or 2 micron filter is fine. This will trap the fines that stir up in the first few weeks. These fines really serve little purpose in the bed so it is OK to remove them. The polishing filter clogs fast at first. Merely soak it in a 50/50 water- vinegar mix for about a half hour, rinse well and you're back in business.

Hope that helps

 

[loyalty]

i've been on the board for awhile, but still consider myself a newb. everytime I think I know eveything I need to know, I check this thread and realize how wrong i was. Much thanks to waterkeeper for keeping this thread up

 

[WaterKeeper]

Much thanks to waterkeeper for keeping this thread up

Some people say I'm dragging it down.

 

[dbranca]

Some people say I'm dragging it down.

The only thing you are dragging down is gross misinformation. You will save many thousands of reefers from going down the wrong path in one way or another.

I for one am grateful for your willingness to share your expertise in this format and appreciate your humor... keep it up please :thumbsup:

wow, I wish I could get some brownie points for this one

 

[WaterKeeper]

Thanks for your comments Dave.

Here is a Brownie Point

Dang, I did'nt know that Brownies now have blue uniforms. I wonder when they change their name to Bluies?

 

[jbucholz]

Thanks for the response!

If you add sufficient LS to a Southdown bed this process happens in a week or two. If you don't seed your bed it can take much longer. True the LR will seed a dead sand base but again it is not as effective as a healthy dose of good LS.

OK. Do I need to let the tank go through its cycle first, or can I add the LS now? I was planning on going to ipsf.com and getting the LS along with some other things I think I need (amphipods and caulerpa). Can these also go into the tank before the cycle?

The second factor is how your discharge enters the main tank. If it impacts directly into the bed it will stir things up. When using a sump I like to fashion a manifold for the return line. This is just a piece of PVC pipe that runs horizontal and parallel to the sand surface. The pipe has holes drilled in it that are at an angle of 30-45 degrees away from the sandbed and direct the water upward. This help keep the sump return water from directly stirring the bed. It also provides current along the length of the tank. If you use powerheads in the tank you want their flow to be directed upward toward the surface.

I've designed my system to use the U-tubes with directional return. I can angle the directional return away from the sand bed, but the return pump I am using is powerful enough that it still stirs the sand somewhat.

One other thing that you can do after the initial settling is to run a canister filter with polishing element. A 1 or 2 micron filter is fine. This will trap the fines that stir up in the first few weeks. These fines really serve little purpose in the bed so it is OK to remove them. The polishing filter clogs fast at first. Merely soak it in a 50/50 water- vinegar mix for about a half hour, rinse well and you're back in business.

I'll did some initial looking into this, and it looks like there are benefits to this that go beyond the initial sandstorm (do they really filter out the ich parasite like they claim?). Is there anything special I should look for in a filter? I assume the ones that are sold on ebay (Vortex) will do the job?

Hope that helps

Immensely! Thanks much!

- Jim

 

[WaterKeeper]

Jim,

If your in mid-cycle I'd wait until the ammonia drops before adding anything more. Some LS does cause some cycling on its own but never with the same magnitude as LR. You can add it during the cycle but you'll get more sand critters by doing it after the LR has cycled. By the way, I prefer Halimeda, Cactus algae, over Caulerpa. It tends to be less invasive and has a more compact form.

You may need to throttle the pump until the sand gets a biofilm established. You can always add a throttling valve to the discharge (never throttle the intake).

There are a ton of canisters on the market so it is hard to choose one over the other. You do want one that has sub-micron filter cartridges if you wish to use it to filter out ich or bacteria. A 0.5 micron will certainly remove ich and all but the smallest bacteria. The sub-microns do clog up fast so you need to buy a couple.You clean one in a bleach solution while you run the other.

 

[jbucholz]

Thanks again. Fortunately I plumbed a valve into my system that will enable a portion of the pump discharge to return directly to the sump. Throttling that back works perfectly.

- Jim

 

[The real Fish Lips]

Hello,
So, if you were going too set up a 150 fish/rock tank how would filter it? Would you sump with bio-balls, or live rock? I'm looking at an Aqua clear wet dry with bio-balls and skimmer.(Pro 200).
Thanks,
The real fish lips

 

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Real Lips
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A sump with bioballs is a wet/dry. Why not leave out the bioballs and just have a sump. As I mentioned way back in the first couple of pages of this thread a wet/dry does not help limit nitrates like having a DSB and LR.

The way you filter any tank is to use LR and a DSB. They should be in the main tank and not the sump. Flow through the sump is too fast to provide sufficient contact time and the bottom surface area of the sump is usually to small for the sandbed to provide denitrification. Keep the sump bare and locate your skimmer in it.

 

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

YES welcome real fish lips !!

 

[Radicaljbr]

In talking about sumps. Can't you convert it to a refuge by buying a real mild return pump and perhaps Tee-ing off the water from the overflow so that the current is nice and slow through the sump?

thanks

 

[WaterKeeper]

You really need to have high water movement in the sump unless it is extremely large. Don't forget you want at least 10X turnovers in your main tank per hour. People do baffle portions of the sump and use it as a fuge. If you place the return downstream of the baffled fuge it should get low flow.

 

[Radicaljbr]

I am sorry!! I guess I am not understanding this. I have pleanty of PHs in my tank so isn't the sump return just a bonus for the water turnover?

 

[WaterKeeper]

Oh OK. Sure the powerheads will work OK. Most people rely on the sump return for the bulk of their circulation. If you count on the powerheads, then using the sump for a fuge is fine.

 

[Radicaljbr]

Thanks Tom!

 

[MPH]

Tom,

Been following ur threads for awhile and was going to do things slow with a lot of up front learning and planning as you suggest. Then this came along: (you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have to read it all, just get the idea)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414604

So now Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m in deep.

My question is, I have been testing ammonia, nitrites, and pH every night and doing 20% water changes every other night. As u can see, thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a lot of life in this tank so I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t want to let the ammonia get out of hand. What Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m not understanding is that the ammonia reading is always 0.2 not matter if I do a water change or not, nitrites are always 0 and nitrates are always 0, pH stays around 8.4. Salt water is made up with RO/DI that tests as 0 TDS. This been setup for over 2 weeks now. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m wondering if there is some reason why the cycle is not progressing.