So you got a new fish tank Newbie
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n8thgr8 said:
I'd recommend planning on leaving your skimmer on for most of the time for now. You may be amazed at how much microbubbles decrease over time, as 'marine slime' (I am not kidding) builds up in the protein skimmer and elsewhere. However, there could be an issue with your sump; I have a 'bubble trap' between my protein skimmer and return, and without it I would still have a lot of those bubbles.
I think "other avenues" would include uptake by algae (macro and micro) in a refugium or in the tank itself, denitrification in the live rock and deep sand bed-- and water changes....
Of course, you don't need to worry just about the Nitrogen-- phosphate (PO4) is another thing to worry about.... and some of the above export mechanisms don't really help with that.
OOps~! Looks like I type too slow...
The thing about skimmers is they are a mechanical devise for removing nitrogen. They, in essence, beat the protein into a foam, similar to beating egg whites, that can be removed from the tank via the skimmer cup. Along the way they do remove some bacteria and algae so they are a secondary agent in cell harvesting.
Everybody remembers the old Disney time lapse films where the basket of fruit is left to decay. Over time is shrivels and shrinks, turning black and eventually liquifies. This is pretty much the avenues for food processing in ones tank. The food is liquefied, hydrolyzed, and nitrogen in the food is processed by microorganisms in the tank. Nitrogen in the food is mainly in the form of protein and during hydrolysis this is released into the water column. A skimmer can remove it before any further biological processing occurs.
If not removed, the protein takes two pathways. The first is is by bacteria and other microfauna consuming it and the second is uptake by algae and plants. In animal processing it forms tissues but is also converted into ammonia for excretion. In the plant route this ammonia is processed into new plant tissue and the chief route of export is by harvesting these plants. Ammonia not taken up by plants goes through the usual route of nitrite and nitrate conversion as specialized bacteria consume the ammonia. If conditions in the tank are completely aerobic then nitrate is the final product. It too can be used by plants to build tissue but in many cases it accumulates in the water column. If anoxic conditions are present in the tank then nitrate can replace oxygen as the primary source of oxygen for for food metabolism. In this case the oxygen is used to oxidize carbon and the nitrogen is released as free nitrogen gas.
Few, perhaps none, in this hobby load a tank so lightly that there is no need for nitrogen removal. We want plenty of fish and corals so, to have them, we heavily feed our tank's micro environment. Nutrient export is a constant battle. A skimmer is just a tool we use to help us in that conflict.
Oh, and as I said over a year ago in this thread, skim away to your heart's content during curing. There is plenty of protein for a ton of skimmers during that period and those "good" bacteria you are trying to culture in the cycle will still have plenty to eat.
Everybody remembers the old Disney time lapse films where the basket of fruit is left to decay. Over time is shrivels and shrinks, turning black and eventually liquifies. This is pretty much the avenues for food processing in ones tank. The food is liquefied, hydrolyzed, and nitrogen in the food is processed by microorganisms in the tank. Nitrogen in the food is mainly in the form of protein and during hydrolysis this is released into the water column. A skimmer can remove it before any further biological processing occurs.
If not removed, the protein takes two pathways. The first is is by bacteria and other microfauna consuming it and the second is uptake by algae and plants. In animal processing it forms tissues but is also converted into ammonia for excretion. In the plant route this ammonia is processed into new plant tissue and the chief route of export is by harvesting these plants. Ammonia not taken up by plants goes through the usual route of nitrite and nitrate conversion as specialized bacteria consume the ammonia. If conditions in the tank are completely aerobic then nitrate is the final product. It too can be used by plants to build tissue but in many cases it accumulates in the water column. If anoxic conditions are present in the tank then nitrate can replace oxygen as the primary source of oxygen for for food metabolism. In this case the oxygen is used to oxidize carbon and the nitrogen is released as free nitrogen gas.
Few, perhaps none, in this hobby load a tank so lightly that there is no need for nitrogen removal. We want plenty of fish and corals so, to have them, we heavily feed our tank's micro environment. Nutrient export is a constant battle. A skimmer is just a tool we use to help us in that conflict.
Oh, and as I said over a year ago in this thread, skim away to your heart's content during curing. There is plenty of protein for a ton of skimmers during that period and those "good" bacteria you are trying to culture in the cycle will still have plenty to eat.
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Well, as I always said, "If you can't draw, learn biology." I was doing that until I needed to use the microscope and, just like James Thurber, drew a picture of the inside of my eyelashes. Then I took up chemistry.
I don't know, a few artists liked math-
Strangely enough, that's the logo for my school! The da Vinci Academy...
http://academy.d20.co.edu/tdva/index.html
Thomas Eakins was both an artist and a scientist. Many of his works were painted with mathamatical precision and scientific accuracy.
http://academy.d20.co.edu/tdva/index.html
Thomas Eakins was both an artist and a scientist. Many of his works were painted with mathamatical precision and scientific accuracy.
Hi and thank you for this wonderful monster of a thread because of this thread I have been throughly distract from work, sleep and my own personal pursuits. Anyways I guess I'll jump on the bandwagon and ask some questions since I'm writing and I really want some more info before I start in the next couple of months... so here goes..
1) I'm currently looking at the Oceanic 30 or 37 Cube tanks (their beautiful...) and I'm looking to do something similar to what rick has done here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=584024)
As I'm still in the planning stages and I want to use the rear area as a small refuge, I'm wondering if the Skimmer (Red Sea's Prisim I'm thinking... as I haven't physically seen the Aqua C Remora physically yet to see if it could fit) should fit behind the refuge if it stays on the plans, or if it should go before the refuge.
2) What exactly does overflow teeth do? As I've seen alot of designs (and in the case of JBJ Nano-Cube's cassette mod...) that incorporate it... but I'm perplexed on what the purpose is as wouldn't a smooth flat surface add more in skimming off the protein layer cover the water?
3) If the tank is set up in an air conditioned room with large windows and assuming I have the heaters to keep it hot enough and the AC is keeping it cool enough that it's not bouncing... would there be any problems associated with having it be direct to semi-direct light? (Algae growth is to be expected I figure, but... anything else?)
4) Would 130 watts of PC lights be enough to light this? (I'm calculating 3.8 watts from the lights...) and support some low light corals if I choose to go that route in the future? Also would it being in sunlight affect my light levels drastically? (Should I maybe even reduce lighting?)
Thanks for any advice and Waterkeeper, please don't make me drop and do 50... I'm actually doing my research before I've picked up anything!!!!
Meeker
1) I'm currently looking at the Oceanic 30 or 37 Cube tanks (their beautiful...) and I'm looking to do something similar to what rick has done here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=584024)
As I'm still in the planning stages and I want to use the rear area as a small refuge, I'm wondering if the Skimmer (Red Sea's Prisim I'm thinking... as I haven't physically seen the Aqua C Remora physically yet to see if it could fit) should fit behind the refuge if it stays on the plans, or if it should go before the refuge.
2) What exactly does overflow teeth do? As I've seen alot of designs (and in the case of JBJ Nano-Cube's cassette mod...) that incorporate it... but I'm perplexed on what the purpose is as wouldn't a smooth flat surface add more in skimming off the protein layer cover the water?
3) If the tank is set up in an air conditioned room with large windows and assuming I have the heaters to keep it hot enough and the AC is keeping it cool enough that it's not bouncing... would there be any problems associated with having it be direct to semi-direct light? (Algae growth is to be expected I figure, but... anything else?)
4) Would 130 watts of PC lights be enough to light this? (I'm calculating 3.8 watts from the lights...) and support some low light corals if I choose to go that route in the future? Also would it being in sunlight affect my light levels drastically? (Should I maybe even reduce lighting?)
Thanks for any advice and Waterkeeper, please don't make me drop and do 50... I'm actually doing my research before I've picked up anything!!!!
Meeker
Hi Meek
[welcome]
Much depends on what your plans are for the fuge. If it is just to grow macro-algae then skimming it is fine. On the other hand, having the fuge to promote "pod" growth means that the skimmer may remove the critters you wish to breed. Both the Prism and Remora have good reputations and should be fine.
The "teeth" on a overflow weir increase the weir length without physically lengthening the weir. In other words,a weir that is plain and is six inches long may be equal to a 12" weir if notched.
In a room with AC the tank should be fine unless you add megawatts of MH lighting. Small tanks like that dissipate heat far better than their large brethren. Heating a tank is never a problem as you can always add another heater or increase the wattage of the present one.
The Oceanic cube is not that deep so the 130 watts of PC should be fine for your purposes. Unless the tank get full sun form morning to nightfall it should pose no problem. If it does you can choose some nice draperies.
Hi Grunthor,
Of course, there is math involved. I never told you this hobby is easy; DID I!!!
Here is a handy-dandy calculator to convert degrees Plato to S.G. Unit Conversion Calc.. Please wash the refractometer after checking your tank but before you measure that homebrew.
[welcome]
Much depends on what your plans are for the fuge. If it is just to grow macro-algae then skimming it is fine. On the other hand, having the fuge to promote "pod" growth means that the skimmer may remove the critters you wish to breed. Both the Prism and Remora have good reputations and should be fine.
The "teeth" on a overflow weir increase the weir length without physically lengthening the weir. In other words,a weir that is plain and is six inches long may be equal to a 12" weir if notched.
In a room with AC the tank should be fine unless you add megawatts of MH lighting. Small tanks like that dissipate heat far better than their large brethren. Heating a tank is never a problem as you can always add another heater or increase the wattage of the present one.
The Oceanic cube is not that deep so the 130 watts of PC should be fine for your purposes. Unless the tank get full sun form morning to nightfall it should pose no problem. If it does you can choose some nice draperies.
Hi Grunthor,
Of course, there is math involved. I never told you this hobby is easy; DID I!!!
Here is a handy-dandy calculator to convert degrees Plato to S.G. Unit Conversion Calc.. Please wash the refractometer after checking your tank but before you measure that homebrew.
markandkristen
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markandkristen
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i think one of the most important things people can realize in this hobby is stable parimiters.
if you skimp on live rock , live sand, and a GOOD protien skimmer your just asking for instability.
the objective of the game is to make a mini ocean. without the rock and skimmer ...your going to spend all your time doing water changes and getting a ulcer because the fish and coral are unhappy.
when i started my first 10gallon 6 months ago ...like a idiot i skimped on the sand and live rock... needless to say i had death city..
i think its so unfair to tell people that all you need is a little of this and that and you can have your basic saltwater aquarium.
i have had my 90 almost 3 months with 90lbs of rock, 120 lbs of sand and a GOOD protein skimmer.
when i wake up each morning i dont have the feeling of
... man which fish did i loose this time....
i dont know if what i said makes sense but this is what ive learned.
if you skimp on live rock , live sand, and a GOOD protien skimmer your just asking for instability.
the objective of the game is to make a mini ocean. without the rock and skimmer ...your going to spend all your time doing water changes and getting a ulcer because the fish and coral are unhappy.
when i started my first 10gallon 6 months ago ...like a idiot i skimped on the sand and live rock... needless to say i had death city..
i think its so unfair to tell people that all you need is a little of this and that and you can have your basic saltwater aquarium.
i have had my 90 almost 3 months with 90lbs of rock, 120 lbs of sand and a GOOD protein skimmer.
when i wake up each morning i dont have the feeling of
... man which fish did i loose this time....
i dont know if what i said makes sense but this is what ive learned.
I just wanted to point out as I get asked this a lot, "What is the minimum amount of LR I can add to my tank and is there a maximum?"
Folks, the standard is around 1 pound of LR per gallon of tank volume. You need not figure in the sump or refugium volumes. There is not a great scientific study to support this figure but much real world experience by reefers using biological filtration has arrived at this as the minimum number of pounds. Is adding more better? Probably, but this is bound by the law of diminishing returns. Adding two, three or even five pounds per gallon may increase the rate of pollutant removal but the overall effect is probably not that great. Also, with very high rock to tank volume ratios, you diminish the overall water volume and could conceivably create higher toxin loads over the short term as dilution was reduced.
Hey, this sounds like a great science project for you budding scientists out there. Get hold of a respirometer, load it with increasing amounts of LR and add fixed amounts of organic materials. Plot the oxygen uptake rate vs. amount of rock present and report the results.
I'd do this myself but, as you know, after the failed experiments on my Acne cure I am no longer allowed in any reputable lab. I won't bore you with the details of those clinical trials on my product as they were fully detailed in the story "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".
Folks, the standard is around 1 pound of LR per gallon of tank volume. You need not figure in the sump or refugium volumes. There is not a great scientific study to support this figure but much real world experience by reefers using biological filtration has arrived at this as the minimum number of pounds. Is adding more better? Probably, but this is bound by the law of diminishing returns. Adding two, three or even five pounds per gallon may increase the rate of pollutant removal but the overall effect is probably not that great. Also, with very high rock to tank volume ratios, you diminish the overall water volume and could conceivably create higher toxin loads over the short term as dilution was reduced.
Hey, this sounds like a great science project for you budding scientists out there. Get hold of a respirometer, load it with increasing amounts of LR and add fixed amounts of organic materials. Plot the oxygen uptake rate vs. amount of rock present and report the results.
I'd do this myself but, as you know, after the failed experiments on my Acne cure I am no longer allowed in any reputable lab. I won't bore you with the details of those clinical trials on my product as they were fully detailed in the story "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".
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