dastratt
New member
Try this:
1) go to www.google.com
2) click on advanced search
3) under domain, type "www.reefcentral.com"
4) type in the search box what you want to search for.
So you got a new fish tank Newbie
- Thread starter WaterKeeper
- Start date
- Status
Try this:
1) go to www.google.com
2) click on advanced search
3) under domain, type "www.reefcentral.com"
4) type in the search box what you want to search for.
Or you can do it Alex's way. 
OK, so I finally made it all the way through the thread! Many questions answered before I had to ask, and several other answers confirmed or blasted in the process. I think I have come away from this one thread alone with a much better understanding of the setup and husbandry aspects of owning and operating a reef tank!
I have one question though concerning the curing of LR in seperate vats.
What I have gathered so far is that it is more desirable to cure a single layer of rock (versus stacked atop one another) spaced apart slightly from one another in a shallow vat where the water temp is targeted near to 80 F and lighted at least every other day.
All of that makes perfect sense to me as explained in earlier posts. My questions are:
A) How often should the water be changed out of the vat? 10-20% Once or Twice a day? or can I get away with doing a 50% change every other day? Salt comes at a price and I don't like to pour money down the drain without knowing I've squeezed every bit of use out of it beforehand.
B) I am assuming here that the SG of the curing vats should be the same as the tank they will be kept in - or is there a minimum acceptable level that can be used during this process? Or more simply put, how important is SG levels during this process?
C) Flow. Is it sufficient to have just a few powerheads moving water around in a single vat, or is the idea to have a pump (or pumps) pull water out and move it into another seperate vat and daisy chain the two together using two pumps? My current thought/understanding is to simply use a closed loop setup to vigorously move the water in and around the curing rock in a single vat. Please let me know if I am wrong in this train of thought.
That is pretty much the only subject I can think of that I need clarification on at this point. Thank you (all of you) for your help and the contributions made to this great site and in making it such a valuable asset to this even greater hobby!
Kudos.
Aaron
I have one question though concerning the curing of LR in seperate vats.
What I have gathered so far is that it is more desirable to cure a single layer of rock (versus stacked atop one another) spaced apart slightly from one another in a shallow vat where the water temp is targeted near to 80 F and lighted at least every other day.
All of that makes perfect sense to me as explained in earlier posts. My questions are:
A) How often should the water be changed out of the vat? 10-20% Once or Twice a day? or can I get away with doing a 50% change every other day? Salt comes at a price and I don't like to pour money down the drain without knowing I've squeezed every bit of use out of it beforehand.
B) I am assuming here that the SG of the curing vats should be the same as the tank they will be kept in - or is there a minimum acceptable level that can be used during this process? Or more simply put, how important is SG levels during this process?
C) Flow. Is it sufficient to have just a few powerheads moving water around in a single vat, or is the idea to have a pump (or pumps) pull water out and move it into another seperate vat and daisy chain the two together using two pumps? My current thought/understanding is to simply use a closed loop setup to vigorously move the water in and around the curing rock in a single vat. Please let me know if I am wrong in this train of thought.
That is pretty much the only subject I can think of that I need clarification on at this point. Thank you (all of you) for your help and the contributions made to this great site and in making it such a valuable asset to this even greater hobby!
Kudos.
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
When will you computer geeks learn how to search the web?
No, not really and those are germane questions.
When will you computer geeks learn how to search the web?
No, not really and those are germane questions.
- I'd say the 50% water changes are fine. I know what you mean about salt costing a few bucks and you are only trying to limit ammonia and organics during the curing process.
- By all means yes; having a shallow level of rock provides better circulation, allows more light penetration (if you actually light the vats) and avoids the nasty white areas that occur when you rest rock against rock. That's why I like those shallow plastic trays over garbage cans for curing. Either will do but the less crowded the environment the more things will survive on the rock..
- You're right on about circulation. More is better but it does depend on the geometry of the curing vats. A closed loop is perfect for a shallow curing tray, even if you plan on a cascade (daisy train) system. On the other hand, the power head is more appropriate when using deeper container. There you can stage power heads at different levels whereas a closed loop would probably not agitate water deeper in the vat. Commercial curing usually involves having multiple containers. The rock is moved every few days down the curing line. The first vat is then dumped, refilled with new water, placed at the end of the line and the one following it becomes the first vat. This way the pollutants produced in the initial stages of curing are dumped but subsequent vats use dilution in improving water quality. Unless you plan on a really large tank with tons of rock it is not very practical for home use.
[/list=a]
:tumbsup:
tried it, it's not even remotely as good as the real forum search. IMO. Maybe I'll get better at searching reef related too (all those acronyms and misspells like aiptasia)
Luckily I am PST so at midnight it's 3AM east coast so i can usually get on the search engine.
Regards,
E.
Yes Beachboy,
It is not as good with a Google search. Sometimes I find just using the normal Yahoo search can work pretty well, especially if you know the author. The internal search engine is still much better. Of course, the Staff gets a few perks and unlimited searching is one.
It is not as good with a Google search. Sometimes I find just using the normal Yahoo search can work pretty well, especially if you know the author. The internal search engine is still much better. Of course, the Staff gets a few perks and unlimited searching is one.
reverendmaynard
New member
So THAT'S why no one can ever get to use the searchh engine. That darn staff!
I am another newbee trying to bring a tank up.
It has taken me weeks to get my plumbing situation to where things are maintainable, quiet, and not messy (I ended up moving the sump to a basement room where small water booboos won't matter so much (smartest thing I've done, so far)).
I ran fresh water through the pipes for a couple of weeks to clean things out while dealing with my home-built-sump bubble issues.
Then (with a hundred bucks worth of glued up & useless fittings sitting in the garbage can) I replaced the water with RO water & salt. A few days later I added CaribSea Aragonite sugar sand with some CaribSea Arag-Alive mixed in to get the bacteria started. Finally, I bought 10 lbs of live rock from LFS to get something in the tank in the hopes of getting something started.
It has now been a week and I haven't seen any change to the water chemistry yet. No ammonia, no nitrites, no nitrates. Yet, the water clouded up immediately upon adding the sand & a day later, had a slight green hue to it. It cleared 80% after three days to a milky grey that one could still see through. It hasn't cleared beyond that.
I thought that the green indicated some algae going on, but, wouldn't I expect to see some nitrates or something for the algae to be growing on?
BTW, I plan to ship in live rock (200 lbs for a 200 gal tank) as soon as the weather warms up a bit in two or three weeks and use it to more formally cycle the tank. I have read that lighting is bad during this phase due to encouraging green algae, but that lighting is good during this phase in order to encourage coralline algae on the rock. To light, or not to light, that is another question....
I thought I had resolved to be patient, but it's unbelievable just how long three days can be. How am I going to survive this initial bring up.....yikes.
Anyway, I love this thread, though I'm only up to page 11. I hope to "have it all" some day.
It's nice to be among you.
Cheers!
It has taken me weeks to get my plumbing situation to where things are maintainable, quiet, and not messy (I ended up moving the sump to a basement room where small water booboos won't matter so much (smartest thing I've done, so far)).
I ran fresh water through the pipes for a couple of weeks to clean things out while dealing with my home-built-sump bubble issues.
Then (with a hundred bucks worth of glued up & useless fittings sitting in the garbage can) I replaced the water with RO water & salt. A few days later I added CaribSea Aragonite sugar sand with some CaribSea Arag-Alive mixed in to get the bacteria started. Finally, I bought 10 lbs of live rock from LFS to get something in the tank in the hopes of getting something started.
It has now been a week and I haven't seen any change to the water chemistry yet. No ammonia, no nitrites, no nitrates. Yet, the water clouded up immediately upon adding the sand & a day later, had a slight green hue to it. It cleared 80% after three days to a milky grey that one could still see through. It hasn't cleared beyond that.
I thought that the green indicated some algae going on, but, wouldn't I expect to see some nitrates or something for the algae to be growing on?
BTW, I plan to ship in live rock (200 lbs for a 200 gal tank) as soon as the weather warms up a bit in two or three weeks and use it to more formally cycle the tank. I have read that lighting is bad during this phase due to encouraging green algae, but that lighting is good during this phase in order to encourage coralline algae on the rock. To light, or not to light, that is another question....
I thought I had resolved to be patient, but it's unbelievable just how long three days can be. How am I going to survive this initial bring up.....yikes.
Anyway, I love this thread, though I'm only up to page 11. I hope to "have it all" some day.
It's nice to be among you.
Cheers!
PatMayo
New member
[welcome]
Do you have a skimmer on the tank?
Was the rock you put in cured or uncured?
If the rock was cured you may not get any spikes.
If the rock was uncured you need to be patient. The parameters will change.
What kind of flow do you have through your system and what type of additional flow do you have besides your sump return?
Regards,
Pat
Do you have a skimmer on the tank?
Was the rock you put in cured or uncured?
If the rock was cured you may not get any spikes.
If the rock was uncured you need to be patient. The parameters will change.
What kind of flow do you have through your system and what type of additional flow do you have besides your sump return?
Regards,
Pat
The rock was cured, so, that makes sense; although there is currently very little rock.
I was thinking that I'd see something from the sand, expecially since the haze in the water was a bit green. I reasoned that algae would need nitrates to grow. Is that bogus?
I don't have a skimmer yet. That's among the next few financial whacks-up-side-the-head soon to come.
My return path is driven by a sequence barracuda pump driving about eight feet of head. Sequence's chart shows that to be about 3200 GPH (minus fittings head-loss) which I am driving into the tank at four corners; two high and two low. The actual flow rate is unmeasured since I'm not sure how to do that. Other than that path, there is no other flow in the tank. Although, with all of the bubbles I was blowing in there early on, it looked like pretty much all of the water was visibly active in the tank and the top surface of the water looks busy (whatever that means).
FYI, there is a period of time, lasting about 1/2 hour when sunlight passes through a transom window and directly hits the side of the tank. I know this will encourage algae and am hoping that ultimately a balance will be reached. My wife hangs crystals in the transom to splash the room with rainbows when the sun comes through. If it comes down to her rainbows versus my tank, I know who will lose.... and the rainbows are pretty cool. I don't know where that sunbeam goes in the summer. I've never paid that close of attention. So, this might only be a seasonal issue if any issue at all.
Cheers!
I was thinking that I'd see something from the sand, expecially since the haze in the water was a bit green. I reasoned that algae would need nitrates to grow. Is that bogus?
I don't have a skimmer yet. That's among the next few financial whacks-up-side-the-head soon to come.
My return path is driven by a sequence barracuda pump driving about eight feet of head. Sequence's chart shows that to be about 3200 GPH (minus fittings head-loss) which I am driving into the tank at four corners; two high and two low. The actual flow rate is unmeasured since I'm not sure how to do that. Other than that path, there is no other flow in the tank. Although, with all of the bubbles I was blowing in there early on, it looked like pretty much all of the water was visibly active in the tank and the top surface of the water looks busy (whatever that means).
FYI, there is a period of time, lasting about 1/2 hour when sunlight passes through a transom window and directly hits the side of the tank. I know this will encourage algae and am hoping that ultimately a balance will be reached. My wife hangs crystals in the transom to splash the room with rainbows when the sun comes through. If it comes down to her rainbows versus my tank, I know who will lose.... and the rainbows are pretty cool. I don't know where that sunbeam goes in the summer. I've never paid that close of attention. So, this might only be a seasonal issue if any issue at all.
Cheers!
Deep,
All things come to he who waits. I really don't have much to add about a three day old tank except; like a fine wine things will improve with age.
Take two asprin and call me in about 4 weeks.
All things come to he who waits. I really don't have much to add about a three day old tank except; like a fine wine things will improve with age.
Take two asprin and call me in about 4 weeks.
Acreagedad
New member
Tom,
First, things are going good so far but I discoved a major problem with my design. I have a Mag 9.5 being used for return into my 125g. The return also supplies my fuge. I have to keep my skimmer in my fuge due to space issues.
Problem is that in order to leave the valve open for the skimmer and fuge, the return just trickles into the main tank. Big problem. So I have to upgrade.
I was thinking about a Mag 18. However, friends have been telling me about an Iwaki 55. In your experience, do you think that I'll be able to handle the flow of either. My sump is 24" wide. My fuge is 10g. My tank is 72" long. I was told that I might have to modify the overflows by making the holes bigger. I could handle that, but I'm trying to figure out what is best.
All of that water being pumped has to go somewhere as fast as it leaves the pump. I don't wan't major problems, so I'm doing my homework.
Carlito
First, things are going good so far but I discoved a major problem with my design. I have a Mag 9.5 being used for return into my 125g. The return also supplies my fuge. I have to keep my skimmer in my fuge due to space issues.
Problem is that in order to leave the valve open for the skimmer and fuge, the return just trickles into the main tank. Big problem. So I have to upgrade.
I was thinking about a Mag 18. However, friends have been telling me about an Iwaki 55. In your experience, do you think that I'll be able to handle the flow of either. My sump is 24" wide. My fuge is 10g. My tank is 72" long. I was told that I might have to modify the overflows by making the holes bigger. I could handle that, but I'm trying to figure out what is best.
All of that water being pumped has to go somewhere as fast as it leaves the pump. I don't wan't major problems, so I'm doing my homework.
Carlito
Carlito,
I like the Iwaki but the difference is minimal between the 55 and the Mag 18. It is a toss up between the two with the Iwaki having a small advantage it gph and overall head pressure. It is not enough to chose one over the other. You would see a bigger difference by increasing you piping diameter. An increase form 0.75" to 1" improves flow by almost 200 gph. Use the Head loss Calculator and you can play around with it to compare pumps and plumbing changes.
I like the Iwaki but the difference is minimal between the 55 and the Mag 18. It is a toss up between the two with the Iwaki having a small advantage it gph and overall head pressure. It is not enough to chose one over the other. You would see a bigger difference by increasing you piping diameter. An increase form 0.75" to 1" improves flow by almost 200 gph. Use the Head loss Calculator and you can play around with it to compare pumps and plumbing changes.
Acreagedad
New member
But should I be concerned about the size of my sump. It's 24" wide. I heard that I can't get a 55 or a M-18 because my sump is too small. What's that all about? Should I worry or not? Wouldn't the water rush into my sump faster?
reverendmaynard
New member
Acreagedad - If it is true that your current pump is only supplying a trickle of flow back to the tank, you obviously need to do something to remedy the situation, otherwise you are continuously recycling the same sump water through the skimmer and fuge, with very little water being exchanged with the display. Also, you shouldn't have to worry about undersized overflows if they are currently only handling a trickle. A bigger pump, or switching the skimmer and/or fuge to it's own pump are both possible remedies.
Note that if the "trickle" you are describing is anywhere over 400gph, you have enough tank-to-sump flow as it is. IME, overflow and return rates are typically much higher than is required. Most of the "experts" seem to recommend 3-5x display volume. In my 125g, I'm running a Quiet One 3000 (780gph), that supplies some flow to a remote DSB as well. I estimate 500gph actual return rate (I have very little head, as my pump is actually above the bottom of the tank). For more in-display flow, a closed loop or powerheads are recommended. One way to test the flow rate would be to empty the display a couple of inches below the overflow. Make a mark with tape or something about .5" above that waterline (to give the pump time to get going to full capacity and clear any air from the lines). Put another mark exactly 1" above the other. Turn the pump on, wait until the water reaches the first mark, and then start timing. When the water reaches the second mark, you have filled the tank with approximately 5.5 gallons. Divide the time needed into an hour, and multipy the resulting number by 5.5 to get gph (if it takes 1 minute, divide into an hour = 60, 60*5.5=330gph).
I think if you posted a picture or schematic of your setup, it would be easier to offer specific solutions.
Note that if the "trickle" you are describing is anywhere over 400gph, you have enough tank-to-sump flow as it is. IME, overflow and return rates are typically much higher than is required. Most of the "experts" seem to recommend 3-5x display volume. In my 125g, I'm running a Quiet One 3000 (780gph), that supplies some flow to a remote DSB as well. I estimate 500gph actual return rate (I have very little head, as my pump is actually above the bottom of the tank). For more in-display flow, a closed loop or powerheads are recommended. One way to test the flow rate would be to empty the display a couple of inches below the overflow. Make a mark with tape or something about .5" above that waterline (to give the pump time to get going to full capacity and clear any air from the lines). Put another mark exactly 1" above the other. Turn the pump on, wait until the water reaches the first mark, and then start timing. When the water reaches the second mark, you have filled the tank with approximately 5.5 gallons. Divide the time needed into an hour, and multipy the resulting number by 5.5 to get gph (if it takes 1 minute, divide into an hour = 60, 60*5.5=330gph).
I think if you posted a picture or schematic of your setup, it would be easier to offer specific solutions.
This one has me a bit stumped are we talking about the sump volume being too small? That is more a function of the overflows than pump size. As long as the inflow matches outflow you should be OK. If you mean the pump's dimensions are too large then a Iwaki 55 RTL is 10.75ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ X 4.8ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ X 6.2ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ .
I'm with you Rev. If you can get a 5X turnover rate through the sump it is fine and you can always add a closed loop for additional display circulation. BTW- I get 5.2 gallons per inch for a 24" tall 125.
UCF,
Glad you liked it. Look around as there are at least one or two other threads that are of value on RC.
I'm with you Rev. If you can get a 5X turnover rate through the sump it is fine and you can always add a closed loop for additional display circulation. BTW- I get 5.2 gallons per inch for a 24" tall 125.
UCF,
Glad you liked it. Look around as there are at least one or two other threads that are of value on RC.
Acreagedad
New member
That's a wonderful explanation. I see where I'm at and if it helps.
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