So you got a new fish tank Newbie

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Gentle Readers,

One thing about this thread is I try to keep it as simple as possible. Often I use common terminology such as SPS corals that are frequently used on this board and others. While these are misnomers their use is so widely accepted that I use them in referring to this family of critters in this thread. Our Experts tend to write for the Expert. This is sometimes confusing for the beginner.

Henry S. will refer to Nemo, who is now calling her/himself Naomi after his change :D, as a; "protandric hermaphrodite who exhibits sexual dimorphism but rarely dichromatic differences between the genders."

I, myself, get a deep, often sexual, thrill as I read such explanations. Most readers, who I guess are far less kinky, tend to be a bit confused when confronted with such writings. For that reason I try to put such things into laymanââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s terms while not shocking our younger readers. ;)

I do urge the neophyte to consult our Expert Forum for detailed information before stocking a tank. The information I provide is cursory, at best, and is only intended as a general guide.

I notice there are some questions about feeding and refugiums on this thread and one of the other newbie threads I've got running. I guess I should touch on these subjects, which are related to maintaining the livestock in your tank before going any further with adding critters. I'll do that in the next day or so.
 
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Water Keeper where have you been all my life?

What a breath of fresh air in a polluted world . . .
I am looking for the proper sand and would not of had I not found you . . . I might be able to do it after all. Thank You! Can I give you ten just for fun?
 
Hi RJSorensin
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

You related to Søren Sørensen? He's the guy who invented pH for you non-chemist types.

Let's Chow Down!!!

As I said yesterday, this may be a good time to talk about feeding your critters as they may be starving after the long trip to your house.

Now all of you know there are meativores, that go with the Adkins diet of just meat and sushi; veggivores, that prefer bean sprouts and tofu, and, finally, snackivores that eat just about anything. The guys that speak Latin (lawyers?) sometimes call these groups carnivores, herbivores and omnivores but they have the same diets as my classification. :D

For the most part the fish and inverts you add to your tank will mainly be omnivores. There are surprising few dedicated (obligate) carnivores or herbivores, which is probably a good thing as it simplifies feeding the community tank.

Now if you get your livestock from the LFS, I'm sure you've been told to have the proprietor feed the fish before you purchase it. If the fish readily takes flake food your halfway home. On the other hand, if the owner of the LRS ducks into the back room and brings out some food for the fish and you ask him what it is? Get a little more experience in the hobby before selecting that fish if he tells you, "It only eats fresh caught Coelacanth." ;)

Flake food sometime gets an undeserved bad rap. If you have a tank of fish that all enjoy flake food you are a lucky reefer. Picky fish spell problems unless you have a dedicated tank and can focus feed. Most dried foods have a mixture of dried vegetable matter along with fish and shrimp meals as a minimum. They also, because they don't contain much water, have high protein and fiber contents. Better brand foods often contain added vitamins and such things as Omega Fatty acids so you don't need (although it never hurts) to soak the food in supplement such as Zoe or Selcon.

There are a wide variety of blends out there. Some are high in algae like spirulina, while others are higher in meat type proteins. If you have Tangs a high vegetable food is desirable but if you have angels you want ones high in fish meal or even sponge if you can find one. Overall, there are so many types available you can create blends to suit your needs. Just beware of shady claims. If you've had FW experience you know what I mean. Claims such as "color" or "breeding" blend are usually misleading as they have dubious benefit in achieving either claim.

I think the majority of reefers will agree that feeding just flake food is probably not going to provide all the benefits of a more diverse diet. Adding frozen mysis, brine shrimp, silversides, or krill are all things that are easy to do. Another popular food supplement is the homemade smorgasbord. One gets out the old blender and chops up fresh fish, shrimp, clams, mussels, dried seaweed, spinach, and vitamins. The mix is fed either on the spot or frozen for future use. There is some concern that feeding saltwater fish their freshwater cousins can cause liver disease. I'm not 100% sure that is entirely true as I've had goldfish eating Lionfish that seemed to fare very well but with the large selection of saltwater fish available at the local market you may wish to make your homemade diet entirely of marine organisms. Nori, available at most oriental shops, is a very popular algae supplement used in these homemade concoctions. Remember to look at the ingredients on the package, it usually comes dried, so make sure it is not laced with seasonings. Do a search on RC or the web and you will find all sorts of recipes for homemade meals. The nice part about them is, when finely chopped in a blender, they can also be used to feed corals, anemones, tubeworms, clams, etc.

Another popular food is freshly hatched brine shrimp. It gets mixed reviews as a saltwater food. Tune in next time and we'll talk about this and how to make it more wholesome.

Take Care.:lol2:
 
Waterkeeper,

Very Informative Information!

But, you stated in a few posts above that you'd be talking about refugium's?

I'm still Very New to this hobby, and am trying to obtain as much information as I possibly can. Firstly, so that I have a firm grasp of basic knowledge, also so that I Know What I'm Doing. :D

After reading the posts back on page 1 or 2 of this forum in relations to Sumps, I have a firm understanding of what they are, and how they work.

I have a vauge notion of what a Refugium, but I'm still not quite certain how it differs from a Sump - other than you can put LR & LS & other critters in the Refugium.

I'm also aware that some folk combine their Sump into being a Refugium as well.

Could you perhaps put together a post that gives me (us newbies) a bit more information about what purposes that a refugium serves that's apart from a Sump?

Thanks again for all your time invested into answering questions you've likely answered 100 times before. ;)
 
I'm going to talk about "fuges" tomorrow. In a nutshell they are places where a low flow, sheltered area is provided to allow for reproduction of the little critters that inhabit the rock and sand. A safe haven, so to speak, from the predators in the main tank.
 
Now I know some of you plan to start your tanks off big-time. That means that pizza delivery people, postal employees and the ever-popular paperboy will provide an ample supply of live food for your shark tank. For those of us with tanks smaller than two Olympic sized swimming pools we need to find other sources.:D

One of those live foods are the ever popular-
animwobbler.gif

SeaMonkeys

Better known to reefers as brine shrimp or Artemia they are an easy to culture form of live food. About all one needs is a mason jar, some saltwater, dried brine shrimp eggs and an air pump with air stone.

The task is easy. Just take some water out of your tank add about Ã"šÃ‚½ tablespoon of the dried eggs per quart and aerate for about 36-48 hours. Presto-instant live brine shrimp!

These baby brine shrimp, known as nauplii, have some nutritional benefit but not a lot. That low nutritional content is why they get a bad rep as, "Saltwater Junk Food". Shortly after hatching they use up most of the food supplied by the egg sack and very often are offered as food for the tank. Not having much meat on their bones means you need to feed huge quantities to satisfy the charges in your tank.

Is there a solution? You bet. The trick is to not use them right away but to fatten them up for awhile. Often, brewer's yeast is used as a food. This is OK but it is not the best source of shrimp food. It also has a habit of getting into the main tank and establishing itself in the sandbed. While the yeast is not a threat to the tank is may get a major foothold in the DSB where its fermentation products may create some pungent odors.

A better solution is to feed it a mix of algae. Recently live suspensions of alga have become commercially available on the on-line fish stores. These can be used but it is not much harder to cultivate your own than it is to hatch brine shrimp. The requirements are about the same with only a broad spectrum light needed to promote photosynthesis. Standard NO fluorescent will do in the 5500-6500 K range. I'll get back to algae culture in a minute.

One of the things that also bugs people with using brine shrimp as food is the egg casing. They contend that the discarded egg is full of phosphate that then enters the main tank. Others feel the shells are not digestible by small fish. That doesn't seem like a great problem as a tool as simple as a flashlight allows separation of the shrimp from the shells. Just darken the room and shine a narrow beam flashlight about halfway up the hatching container. The tiny shrimp are light loving, photophillic, and will swarm around the light. Suck them up with a turkey baster and you have shrimp sans eggs.

Another way around the problem is to decapsulate the shells before hatching the shrimp. That is to remove the shell casing before the eggs are added to the hatching container. The good people of the University of Florida have a web page on the method albeit for 1 lb quantities of eggs so you'll probably want to scale it down some. Decapsulating Shrimp Brine Eggs

Brine shrimp of course are not the only form of live food that can be cultured. As I said, algae is just about as easy as brine shrimp. Rotifers and copepods both lend themselves to "Mason Jar" culture technique. Many people use discarded two liter pop bottles with the bottom removed as culture vessels. It just so happens that Doc Frank Marini has links a whole series of articles on the culture of plankton and zooplankton. To avoid further typing mistakes I direct your attention to those-Home Food Culture Series

One of the central themes in home culture is that one needs to have more than one culture going. This is in case of a "culture crash". Usually such "crashes" occur because another competing organism enters the culture and either eats or out competes the desired species. You want to make sure the culture remains as pure as possible by disinfecting all tools that come into contact with the culture. A wash with a 5% bleach solution will usually do. Rinse well and let dry completely before using. For microwave safe materials, a couple of minutes under full power will serve the same purpose.

Most cultures need to be aerated and that air can create contamination. Here is a link to a airline filter that is fine enough (0.3 micron) to remove bacteria- Submicron filter

I know they are not cheap but if you use a prefilter on the intake of the air pump they last a long time. You can also use HEPA vacuum cleaner bags to make covers for your culture containers to further preclude airborne contamination.

The only thing Frank does not discuss is mysis shrimp but from what I gather their culture is similar to copepods.
Mysis are a preferred diet for seahorses and other small marine fish.

Not ready to set up a culture lab? All is not lost. One of the popular ways to provide live food for the tank is to set up a refugium. Now there seems to be some confusion as to what is a sump and what is a refugium. By my definition a sump is a tank of some sorts that has high velocity water flows through it and may contain skimmers and other treatment devices. In most case flow velocities are too high to maintain biological filtration. Refugiums are illuminated, low flow tanks with LR, LS and possibly macroalgae. Turf type algae growth is encouraged and skimmers and other mechanical filtration devices are never used. They are in essence a hide out for copepods, amphipod, isopods, worms and countless other wee critters that live in the sand and rock. In the main tank or sump they would be eaten before they could get a chance ot breed and would be eliminated over time.

I will continue with a little more on refugiums next time but here is a nice design for a DIY HOB refugium.

Harmonic's DIY Fuge with Pics
 
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Ok, there are all sorts of designs for refugia. You can take any basic sump design and use it for a refugium. The main difference is what goes into the refugium and the flow rate.

One of the nice things about a HOB design, like Harmonic's, is that flow out of the fuge is by gravity. Under-the-tank designs usually require that water be pumped from the fuge to the main tank. This exposes the "bugs" that develop in the fuge to the rigors of going through a pump. As you can imagine moving through a pump with an impeller moving at 3600 rpmââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s can be a challenging event. Even worse, if the fuge is located in someplace like the basement the pump needs to have a high pumping head. High head translates to high sheer forces in the pumps volute that can further damage sensitive organisms. :twitch:

I like to limit flow in a fuge to 1-3 volumes per hour. Some people even use less and Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve heard some with like a full day cycle. To me that is a bit too much. If standard powerheads are used to pump from the fuge to the tank it is often necessary to place a throttling valve on the discharge of the pump making sheer forces worse. Note to avoid damage to a centrifugal pump always throttle at the discharge not the intake. Using an electronic controlled, variable speed pump helps here but such pumps cost three to five time the price of a standard, fixed speed pump.

One of the drawbacks of a HOB fuge is lighting. It is often hard to get good lighting over such a small area. Power compacts are a good choice in such a case. Reverse photoperiods are often used on sumps. That is, the fuge is illuminated when the main tank is off. The theory here is that at night the algae in the main tank release carbon dioxide lowering pH and oxygen levels. By illuminating the fuge at night it is hoped that the algae in the fuge will absorb carbon dioxide and produce oxygen thereby limiting the pH swings. It is a nice theory but unless you have a very large fuge it probably doesn't work all that well. Most HOB designs are too small to make much difference. Rather than taking pains to isolate it from the tank lights I'd just illuminate both at the same time.

Another method of setting up a fuge is to have it placed above the main tank. In this fashion is can be fed from the main tank and an overflow box be used for return flow. This is a very good design if you can manage it.

Last we have the in-sump fuge. This is probably the worst method. Yes, baffles can slow the water flow but one of the ideas of the sump is to provide an area for mechanical and chemical filters. One of the main foods of the fuge's critters are small particulates and DOM (dissolve organic matter). It is really hard to design an in-sump fuge that allows these materials to accumulate. Also, we run into the problem of again needing to subject our "bugs" to high pump velocity and heads.

I have an appointment for lunch so I'll finish this part on refugia up tomorrow.

You all have a good day.
 
thanks waterkeeper. By any chance do you know where I can get a nice ready sump and refugia? Anybody. Also I am planning on having my sump by basement any idea how I can accomplish these?

Good Article for newbie like me.... :-)
 
Well thanks franning,

Since so many reefers that follow my advice soon leave the hobby, you can try E-bay for a bargin. :D

Alot of the RC sponser have ready made sumps/fuges. Check those out as well as the Trading Forums on RC.

I am looking in to someone who provides airlift pumps that can handle those long lifts without overly stressing the organisms.
 
Thanks for the info Tom,

So far it's been very informative reading and is coming in handy as i go about cycling and setting up my new tank. Now it's a test of my patience not to rush things!

Thanks for the info. This is valuable stuff for a lot of people.

Barry
 
Waterkeeper,

Something I was just thinking of that might be good to cover as well. I was going to post it in another forum, but I think this one would be best suited.

What are the necessary preperation steps to take <i>in case of</i> a power outage?

And if the power outage should occur, what's the best way to keep everything alive & well, if you don't have another tank you can transport the critters to?

As I'm making the preperations for my own tank, I figure this is some good information to get ahold of, and make ready for in the unlikely event this happens.

Better safe, than sorry.
 
"Man, I should of had a V-8!"

I re-read the culture article, which I posted above, that was done by Martin Moe where he used V-8 for ciliate culture. Just happened to have some newly hatched brine shrimp and decided to try using it to feed them. Works real well and the little buggers slurp it up. Just make the water a very light pink and in a few hours those "Seamonkeys" will chow down on it and the water will clear. Do that a couple times each day and you'll have some wholesome brine shrimp for your tank. Probably as good as feeding them an algae culture. Thanks Mr. Moe!. No, not my avatar. :D

Tiger,

Just do a search of RC around Mid-August of last year. That was the Great Northeast blackout. You'll find stuff for battery operated pumps. back-up generators and having a air tank and regulator to supply oxygen. It was a REAL hot topic and there were all sorts of solutions.

bheron,

I sprained my wrist real bad over the weekend, so I am having a hard time typing. I'll try to finish it tomorrow, if my tired old bones will let me. :D
 
BUMB

New around here and I've been glued to this thread. Don't plan on setting up a reef tank anytime soon (poor college students can barely afford ramen noodles), but love to learn.

Keep it coming! :bounce3:

Mike
 
:-)
Sorry to hear about the wrist. We need that and the fingers attached to keep us going here. Heal well! I'll be on vaca from sat to sat but will catch up when i return or even check from the sea!
 
Hi Mike
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

Ramen noodles huh? I didn't even know what they were (except for a form of spectroscopy) until I took an all expense paid government trip to SE Asia in the late 60's. :D

I get so busy this time of year with the primaries and all. As a political reporter for Field & Screem, I spend all my time at the polls looking for hanging and dimpled Shad-
amshad3.jpg

From- "Shad Alosa sapidissima--An Ameircan Political Red Herring" ;)


Anyway, let's add a little to this part of the thread about "fuges".

One of the things, IMO, about "Fuge's" is that "Less is More". (This thread is so full of IMO that I can't believe anyone follows it. However, if your tank fails you can always attribute it to following the advise of an obliviously deranged reefer.):rolleye1:

There are two things a fuge needs-
  1. Live Rock
  2. Live Sand
    [/list=1]
    Everything else is optional.

    If your refugium is fairly small you will want to go all out on the live sand. That is, if you find a supplier that has LS that is teaming with copepods and other wee critters, then try to get as much as you can for your fuge. The whole idea in setting up a refugium in the first place is to provide a lovers nest for the invertebrates that would be gobbled up in the main tank. There is a trend toward larger and larger refugiums. If you are looking at one of these mega-fuges then try to use as much LS as you can afford when setting it up. Southdown is OK but you want a really biologically active bed in a refugium, so spring for as much LS as you can get. You'll want at least a 4" bed and you can go deeper if you have the sand.

    The LR doesn't need to be as plentiful as you use in the main tank. If you do find some nice LR with lots of fan worms and other critter the fuge is a good location to place it. Very often these critters will migrate to the main tank over time and the LR in the fuge will continue to supply them in the future.

    If you are setting up a fuge after you have your main tank populated you want to be careful about adding LR to a fuge or main tank. Isolate the rock for a few days and observe it carefully. The reason for this is the there is always the possibility of bringing in some harmful critters. Chief among them is the little anemone know as Aiptasia--

    Nicholas%20Allers%20Aiptasia.jpg


    Take it from me these little critter are not something you want in your tank. They will take over in no time flat and you will be spending day after day, injecting them with various remedies, to eliminate them. A little quarantine time is suggested to avoid introducing them into your tank-especially an established tank.

    I need to leave for today but our good ole "Doc Ron" has some info on other critters to avoid Ron's Rogue Gallery

    Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll talk about macro algae and detirovore kits next time.
 
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Well, now that I have all you Newbies less in love with those beautiful little Anemones that came with your LR; let's get on with it :D Very often people ask me how to have a "bullet proof" tank. The answer is to get some LR loaded with Aiptasia. No amount of mis-treatment or poor water quality seems to hinder their growth. :)

If you can't get sand that is up to snuff, then you may consider getting a "Ditrivore kit". For those of you who are really true Newbies, Detrivores are the garbagemen of the Marine tank. In the group, Junkfoodivore ( a subgroup of Snackivores), they live at the bottom of the food chair, literally!

Pods. bristleworms, mini-stars, small shrimp and other sand dwellers make up this group of critters whose idea of a good meal is leftovers. Most are nocturnal and send their time feasting, after the bars close, on the leftover debris of the daytime party goers:celeb1:

In a good LS they will be numerous. You may not see them during the day but use a red lens covered light a few hours after dark and you can see them cavorting on the sandbed. If your sand is lacking in these little gems then all is not lost. You can purchase "Detrivore kits" from many of the on-line suppliers on RC. Usually they contain some bristle worms, brittle stars and copepods. When seeding a fuge you want as much diversity as possible but lean toward those that contain a lot of "pods", mysids and other small shrimp.

Although expensive, around $60 for a complete kit, they can be the difference between a successful fuge and a mediocre sand bed.

Oh, Oh gotta go! I hate that when it happens and I'm on a roll..:mad:

Get back to you Monday
 
Sump / Refuge

Sump / Refuge

Dear Waterkeeper,

Thank you for all the wonderful information,

I have a question for you regarding the sump/refuge subject,

You said " Last we have the in-sump fuge. This is probably the worst method. Yes, baffles can slow the water flow but one of the ideas of the sump is to provide an area for mechanical and chemical filters. One of the main foods of the fuge's critters are small particulates and DOM (dissolve organic matter). It is really hard to design an in-sump fuge that allows these materials to accumulate. Also, we run into the problem of again needing to subject our "bugs" to high pump velocity and heads."

I would like to know if you have any ideas for making an in-sump fuge that works, assuming there were no limits as to how this could or would be done! I'm In the process of seting up my 75 gallon and would like to do it the best way possible. My friend has an Acrylic shop that is capable of making just about anything .

Thank you,
Darin G.


:)
 
Hi daring
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

Let me ponder that question for a bit. I'll tackle it in the next day or two.
 
Sump / Refuge

Sump / Refuge

Thanks WaterKeeper,

Just thought I would ask, since I'm in the begining stages of setting up my system. I would like to provide the best environment that I can for my future animals to keep them alive and healthy for as long as possible.

Sincerely,
Darin G. :)
 
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