Solaris Led lighting systems

[oldimpala]

Kjord-

Not so sure I'd say that... I've been part of a few new product launches in the past...

It's probably just "teething" issues. The first few automated runs of the product are bound to have some problems, and as long as PFO stands behind them, and the customers don't have major issues, it shold be fine.

Mind you, I don't think you should get those with a $3K light fixture, but I also didn't think I should get it with a few of the $30K first-year cars I've bought, either....


The proof is obviously if these trends continue, and of course, how the critters in your tank like the lights. That's the key. Not sure I want to trade in the T-5's yet, but I will say I'm interested...


-Andy/Oldimpala

 

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, Im lovin my T5s, and none of the LEDs on the market YET are able to make more PAR/watt than T5/halide... YET. They have come up with them in R&D though so its a matter of a couple years...

 

[DrBegalke]

I'm interested in these as well, but I think I'll wait to see if PFO can tighten up its quality control.

At the price, they should be aiming for six sigma.

 

[hahnmeister]

ROFL!! 6-sigma! Yeah, something tells me its one of two things depending on where the units are made...
Since this is a new technology to them, perhaps PFO is having these made for them by another company. In which case, its very new, and its hard to enforce QT on another company other than reporting problems. Heck, perhaps PFO has everything made by other companies (Design/Marketing firm only) and these companies are not used to making LED units. OR, if PFO makes these themselves, they are not quite sure of everything yet. These things are much more complicated to assemble than anything PFO has made before. These things are much more complicated than a mogul pendant or wiring a HQI ballast's internals. LEDs themselves, even these, are relatively cheap and a unit could be DIYed for much less, suggesting that its the assembly of the units, and all the systems integration that costs so much (and perhaps they are looking for some 'early adopter R&D cost recovery). Instead of LCD readouts with all the fancy modes of operation, perhaps PFO should offer a stripped down version with only toggle switches to control the LEDs (1/2 of each color LED on each switch, so 6 switches). Cutting out the control unit, wiring, programming, display, etc... that would cut costs.

Back when PFO first announced this unit, and the USB port was brought up (and I smashed that idea), I suggested a WiFi controller. That would eliminate the need for the readout LCD and button controls. The WiFi would allow the user to develop the software in something inexpensive like JAVA and upload it to the fixture. Heck, just having the controls in a box remote from the light would cut costs. Then the box/control unit could always be upgraded by simply replacing it and leaving the light intact. Software could be uploaded for 'light cycles' 'moonlight cycles' 'weather patterns' or 'seasonal changes', etc. I always thought that with a 4-6' wide array of LEDs, that it would be cool to have the ability to have one LED on at a time at night for a moonlight, and have the moonlight switch position from one end to the other over the course of the evening. With a WiFi connection this is possible. Any costs from a seperate control box would be recovered by the fact that these boxes are much easier to make (pretty much any wireless router could be reprogrammed to do this), and having these units inside the light itself means more problems. These controls are exposed to more heat and elements being over the tank/lights. The extra heat must mean that the controls themselves would need extra heatsinks (I would hope), or their exposure to the heat will certainly end the LCD and control circuits life much faster.

 

[chrisstankevitz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8287944#post8287944 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kjord97
in an industry like this, when someone spends a grand on some lights, that they would work properly

I disagree. Even expensive products have bugs when released. The space shuttle (trillion dollars?) had foam and o-ring problems.

Money/Stress saving tip: assume new innvoative products are going to have problems.

Chris

 

[RGibson]

PFO builds the led lights at there own plant.

 

[hahnmeister]

Okay, thats good to know, but do you think they make every component as well? I dont. I bet they used generic crystalfontz LCDs and circuits. The components arent worth making themselves, and so part of the assembly is done before they get it I bet.

 

[jmchzn]

Solaris LED Replacement

Solaris LED Replacement

Patrick at PFO says they will be strong for at least 5 years. Test results inticate probably longer but PFO says 5 yrs easy. Replacement cost for a 4' array in (5 yrs from now) future dollars will cost about 500.00.

He is not very happy with all the "armchair" biologists and engineers on RC. I was really listening to a lot of the crap I have been reading so I called Pat at PFO the owner and designer of the Solaris. He was very candid and open with me. We discussed the initial issues with the first generation. What LED lighting does best and how it differs from MH. How testing and comparisons are so easily skewed. But the numbers only tell part of the story. The real story is HOW WILL THE ANIMALS DO UNDER THE LED ARRAY!! Everyone says well the jury is out. Let me ask you something people...Do you think PFO is going to put their company on the line if the animals were not going to thrive? What kind of point would that make. PFO is looking to revolutionize the industry. They are trying to be leaders in a very savy industry. Guess what? All the isses are related to construction and design and assembly like any new product coming to market NOT whether there enough like to grow stonies and clams. Of course there is!!I compare it to BMW 7 series IDrive. The most progressive car compute on the market. They had fixable issues and it confused all the simpltons who can't change the time on a vcr. Within 5 years EVERY car maker is trying to copy IDRIVE.

After setting up the light and talking with pat I am 100% confident Solaris will be the best light on the market bar none. IF ITS NOT I'LL EAT MY WORDS I'M NOT PROUD. I suggest you call Pat at PFO. Run all your toughest questions by him and I'll bet your real issue is you have so much invested in MH and that whole hot messy dangerous set up you have no money left to try something really new and exciting. My 90 looks awesome and uncluttered healthy and yes I am confident clams and stonies will thrive.
So I will post pics and livestock lists and if your in CT come on by. These lights are amazing. Its funny how down right expensive and self indulgent this hobby is and your all complaining about a few dollars for bulbs over the span of years!! Give me a break if thats your issue get goldfish and put them on your windowsill.

 

[chrisstankevitz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8291858#post8291858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I bet they ... ... before they get it I bet.

Let's break this thread into two:

1. Solaris - Observations
2. Solaris - Conjectures

Of course you would subscribe to only the topics that interest you.

Chris

 

[chrisstankevitz]

Re: Solaris LED Replacement

Re: Solaris LED Replacement

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8292672#post8292672 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmchzn
He is not very happy with all the "armchair" biologists and engineers on RC

Armchair engineers: LOL!

 

[hahnmeister]

jmchzn, you are a great customer, no doubt. You believe everything sales people tell you? That BMW 7-series that you speak so highly of... yeah... my dad bought one and it was in the shop more than he could drive it. Eventually BMW issued a recall on the entire model. BMW offered him a full credit or a next-year model in exchange because that I-DRIVE was so full of problems. I-Drive has come under fire (and so have other LCD screen controllers) for being too complicated and distracting to use while driving. Lexus has tried to copy, but the results have been worse than a teenager driving with a cell-phone. And they are not the most progressive car computing-wise... so far SAABs are and always have been with now over 48 computers (at least in the under $100,000 range).

My point is that like all new tech, it isnt always better than what was before it, esp at first. I am all for LEDs, I am already using LEDs to light my desktop nano. But the LEDs I use were DIYed for much less $$$ per watt. I like my halides, and even got in on the T5s when they started to show promise. Ill adopt LEDs, but not the Solaris I imagine. Like I said before, the LEDs that come out in just a couple years will make yours look like antiques. The current LEDs are barely competitive with halide and T5s. I say barely because they do have more usable radiation per watt than SOME 20,000K halides, even though their PAR is less. I love what the technology will/can do... but its just not quite there yet. A halide/T5 setup will still make more light and the cost of the Solaris wont be made up for in potential energy savings any time soon... at least, not until long after the new generation LED's start coming out (oh yeah, there are other companies making a move soon, but they are waiting for the LEDs that actually compete with halides first).

And I dont sit in an armchair, if the engineering firm found out that I did I would be in deep doo doo.

 

[cindyolson]

Can we not start this again. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and on how they spend their money. The only fact is that you cannot be in this hobby if you do not have expendable income because it's VERY EXPENSIVE. Each of us, in our own way, does what we can to save a little.

hahnmeister, I'm sure you DIY model is great, unfortunately you didn't mass market it. By the time the next gen LED light version come's out and you drop your load of cash on it, I'm hoping that the load that I dropped now will have been well spent, and I should be able to upgrade the led's in my light to whatever the latest flavor is.

jmchzn, I agree with you that all new technology has bugs, look at Microsoft, they have yet to get it right out of the box, but that's why there's the 80/20 rule. hahnmeister, I'm sure your firm run's pretty much the same way. Patrick at PFO is fabulous, he's been nothing but helpful and he does believe in his product and has provided some of the best customer service I've experienced.

Anyway, can we give it a couple of months so that those of us who have lightened our wallets can enjoy the moment without the second guessing and nay saying. At that point we'll all know if the boo hooers are right or not as we'll have digital imagery for validation.

Thanks for reading

 

[steve the plumb]

If you can afford it and your happy with the product then who cares what everyone else thinks.People spend alot more money on things they like cars,boats,homes.If the lights don't bankrupt you and you can pay your bills then you work for it and you can spen whatever amount of money you want on whatever product you want.I do have a customer who sells led lights but I don't know what spectrum they are.Its some big unit that is used to light up large areas used mostly for music promotions concerts and stuff like that.He didn't know the spectrum the leds pulled out when I asked him since he was not familiar with the use for aquarium lighting.He did mention that the units he sold weren't cheap and I didn't bother to ask him since I am not familiar with this type of product.I can ask him for his web page to see what he sells

 

[owsi]

Gosh, I feel stupid, lol. I am not a engineer or what ever, actualy a HS drop out. I am upgradeing my Reef to a 110, Euro-Brace just to take full advantage of this technology. I was looking at LED's for a few years now as a space/heat saving method of adding 420-450 nano. PFO beat me to it, the controls on this unit are great and as I was saying to a friend yesterday, I've spent almost as much on spectrum chaseing as the cost of a Solaris 60". How many bulbs/tubes have you bought looking for the right effect. With this unit you can change instantly to show off a new find. LED's being as focused as they are, will put the energy where it does the most good, MH is focused too, but only one or two bulbs will fit and look at the heat gain. Florescents spread without the punch. So dummy me will spend my hard earned cash on this new gizmo, and enjoy every minute of my 5 to 11 years of the LED lighting, lol.

 

[HowardW]

<<< The real story is HOW WILL THE ANIMALS DO UNDER THE LED ARRAY!! >>>



Exactly!! That should be the only real issue and point of discussion in my opinion.

 

[xlayedoutx]

Any updates Cindy. Were you able to get everything up and running.

 

[Angel*Fish]

I apologize if this has already been discussed - I have to confess I have not read every post...

Anyway, could someone tell me if these LED lights produce the glitter/sparkle like the halides do?

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8293129#post8293129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
jmchzn, you are a great customer, no doubt. You believe everything sales people tell you? That BMW 7-series that you speak so highly of... yeah... my dad bought one and it was in the shop more than he could drive it. Eventually BMW issued a recall on the entire model. BMW offered him a full credit or a next-year model in exchange because that I-DRIVE was so full of problems. I-Drive has come under fire (and so have other LCD screen controllers) for being too complicated and distracting to use while driving. Lexus has tried to copy, but the results have been worse than a teenager driving with a cell-phone. And they are not the most progressive car computing-wise... so far SAABs are and always have been with now over 48 computers (at least in the under $100,000 range).

My point is that like all new tech, it isnt always better than what was before it, esp at first. I am all for LEDs, I am already using LEDs to light my desktop nano. But the LEDs I use were DIYed for much less $$$ per watt. I like my halides, and even got in on the T5s when they started to show promise. Ill adopt LEDs, but not the Solaris I imagine. Like I said before, the LEDs that come out in just a couple years will make yours look like antiques. The current LEDs are barely competitive with halide and T5s. I say barely because they do have more usable radiation per watt than SOME 20,000K halides, even though their PAR is less. I love what the technology will/can do... but its just not quite there yet. A halide/T5 setup will still make more light and the cost of the Solaris wont be made up for in potential energy savings any time soon... at least, not until long after the new generation LED's start coming out (oh yeah, there are other companies making a move soon, but they are waiting for the LEDs that actually compete with halides first).

And I dont sit in an armchair, if the engineering firm found out that I did I would be in deep doo doo.

My girlfriend has a saab 9-5, and honestly, its in the shop like every 3 days. Computer issues galore.


We can argue oppinions all day, but thats all they are, oppinions. When it comes to facts, its very clear: These LEDs arent that efficient. The LEDS in the next couple of years may be more efficient than T5/MH, but right now, the ones PFO is using aren't even close. (<50% of the output per watt)

Any claims to efficieny/saving electricity/etc are simply marketing speak. Yeah, they use less watts, but thats because they put out only a fraction of the light.

Yes, corals will grow fine under them, but that doesnt mean you couldnt have just used smaller halides, or T5s, or whatever.

If you like all the controllability, great, buy yourself a Sfilgoi setup, it'll work out of the box, look beautiful, and actually put out a reasonable light output.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305263#post8305263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
I apologize if this has already been discussed - I have to confess I have not read every post...

Anyway, could someone tell me if these LED lights produce the glitter/sparkle like the halides do?

Glitter/Sparkle is produced by having a point source light. To put it bluntly, glitter is from shadows.

They are more discrete than T5s, and less than halides, so they'll run somewhere in between.

 

[DaveWC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305268#post8305268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
If you like all the controllability, great, buy yourself a Sfilgoi setup, it'll work out of the box, look beautiful, and actually put out a reasonable light output.

That was the choice I had to make. In the end I ordered the 3x250w Sfiligoi fixture with 3 ACLS units. At that point the LED unit looked cheap... the retail price for the Sfiligoi / ACLS is $5700 U.S.