CoralsAddiction
Active member
Thank you.
Solomon Percula
- Thread starter ThRoewer
- Start date
Thank you.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
These two were a bit too sluggish, just hanging listless in their pot. So, to give them some excitement I put them in the tank with my gig:
Now they can hardly contain their excitement
I was successful in that regard also tonight. Clowns found the nem.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
I can now confirm that H. Crispa (Sebae) Anemone also causes loss of black color. The left side of my male clown's dorsal fin has faded noticeably in less than 24hrs of moving into the anemone.
ThRoewer
New member
I wouldn't judge so quickly. My pair 3s black got also a lot lighter after they went into my gigantea. I suppose it's because the anemone is still pretty white (though browning up quickly). I would wait for at least a month before making a judgment call.
Also, after what was found in the other Solomon percula thread I wouldn't rule out that some of these color changes could also be seasonal.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
I really hope that the clowns can hold their black in Crispa because (a) I found a healthy one and (b) don't want to deal with selling it and buying a gig or haddoni because the Crispa is so big I cannot accommodate another nem in the tank…well I probably could place a gig above the Crispa but not something I would like to deal with.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
Found it. That was a quick and drastic color change by the way:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1685407
Last edited:
ThRoewer
New member
I've had ocellaris in a crispa for quite a while and they showed no darkening at all. I know at some point I got them a carpet (it was likely a haddoni and didn't last too long) and they got significantly darker, of course not like percula but still quite impressive.
Personally I won't take the risk and rather get more gigs.
The female of my pair 2 looks pretty much exactly like Toddrtrex's in this picture:
I'm fairly sure if she gets a gig she will color up a lot
ThRoewer
New member
Well, the female of pair 2 still has white stringy poo. So I started another round of PraziPro.
At least she is eating a bit better by now.
Pair 3 is eating a lot better now that they are in an anemone. No more hanging around sluggishly. Now it's all excitement.
Both of pair 4 were good eaters from the start.
At least she is eating a bit better by now.
Pair 3 is eating a lot better now that they are in an anemone. No more hanging around sluggishly. Now it's all excitement.
Both of pair 4 were good eaters from the start.
Attachments
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Forgive me...
How is the anemone responsible for the loss of color of the clown?
Seriously?
Please explain the mechanism that causes the clown to lose color.
Has there even been a study that proved definitively that certain anemones can cause clowns to darken? If so, please post a link to that study.
ThRoewer
New member
Yes, there have been studies done and it is a well known fact that certain clownfish get a melanistic coloring in combination with certain anemones (all the carpets for sure).
Other anemones, like H. magnifica causes normal A. percula for example to loose nearly all their black.
The exact mechanism hasn't been studied in detail yet but its effect is well enough documented. You will have a very hard time to find in the wild a onyx percula in a ritteri anemone. Those that live in these even loose most of the black border around the bands.
Get a copy of Anemone Fishes and their Host Sea Anemones by Fautin & Allen. It's in there.
BTW: the influence is also the other way around an the fish can influence the appearance of the anemone.
Other anemones, like H. magnifica causes normal A. percula for example to loose nearly all their black.
The exact mechanism hasn't been studied in detail yet but its effect is well enough documented. You will have a very hard time to find in the wild a onyx percula in a ritteri anemone. Those that live in these even loose most of the black border around the bands.
Get a copy of Anemone Fishes and their Host Sea Anemones by Fautin & Allen. It's in there.
BTW: the influence is also the other way around an the fish can influence the appearance of the anemone.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
There are plenty of examples where wild onyx and regular true perculas lose their black coloration. Even some of the tank raised onyx clowns have experienced this in bubble tips and other anemones. What I can tell you is this: if you digged though this forum, youtube, books and other resources you will never find a wild Onyx or a wild black true percula clownfish in an anemone other than S. Gigantea. I can also ask you for studies that show that a host anemone does not bear any significance of A. Percula coloration. I doubt you will find such a conclusion.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
I've been fascinated by this phenomenon and went through hours of researching diving videos in the wild trying to find a black percula or onyx in H. Magnifica. Never had any luck. You can see an orange true percula in a Gigantea but not a black percula in a Magnifica. But even the orange true percs in S. Gigantea anemones have thicker black lines than the ones in H. Magnificas. I created a playlist on this subject on my youtube channel. Here are some of the videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvaV866Dyc&list=PLvlrqIc20Znxl8-Pwu6FcodQA5Jzkfoci
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGN9wMXTRHM&list=PLvlrqIc20Znxl8-Pwu6FcodQA5Jzkfoci&index=9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gocdKSPqbhM&list=PLvlrqIc20Znxl8-Pwu6FcodQA5Jzkfoci&index=10
Last edited:
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
I have the revised edition of Fautin and Allen's book, published in 1992.
Pg 49 melanism is mentioned under the section of color variation. The author's state the following:
"Another type of variation is melanism, (black pigmentation), which is somehow induced by the host anemone. This topic is discussed in more detail in Chapter 5, where several examples are illustrated."
Chapter 2 Pg 70 - A.chrysogaster:
Melanistic variation: "Specimens associated with S.mertensii are generally blackish except for three white bars"
Chapter 2 Pg 72 - A.chrysopterus:
Melanistic variation: "Fish living with S.mertensii generally have a blackish ground color, whereas males and juveniles that occupy H.crispa are brown. Only orange or brown juveniles are found with H.aurora."
Chapter 2 Pg 74 - A.clarkii
Melanistic variation: "Fish that live with S.mertensii are frequently black except for pale snout, white bars, and yellow or white tail."
Chapter 2 Pg 78 - A.frenatus:
Color features and size: "Adults with a single white head bar; females mainly blackish on sides with a red snout, breast, belly, and fins; males considerably smaller than females and lacking blackish coloration - being instead red overall; juveniles with two or three white bars. Maximum length about 140 mm.
Melanistic variation: "Only that related to sex as described above"
Chapter 2 page 90 - A.melanopus:
Color features and size: "Adults usually black on sides with a reddish snout, belly, dorsal fin, and tail, (sometimes pale yellow); pelvic and anal fins usually black; a single relatively broad white bar on head. Some individuals from the Coral Sea lack head bar; fish from the Fiji islands and southeastern Polynesia entirely red except for a white head bar; those from Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, and New Caledonia have reduced black patch on the side. Maximum length about 120 mm.
Melanistic variations: "Non except variation between "normal" dark color phase and red "Fijian" phase as noted above.
Chapter 2 pg 94 - A.ocellaris
Color features and size: "Normally bright orange with three white bars, the middle one with a forward-projecting bulge; bars have narrow black margins. Maximum length about 90 mm."
Melanistic variation: "A variety that is entirely black except for the white bars occurs in the vicinity of Darwin, Australia. Whether this melanism is correlated with a particular species of anemone is uncertain."
Chapter 2 Pg 98 - A.percula:
Color features and size:"Bright orange with three bars, the middle with forward projecting bulge; often bordered with black that varies in width. Maximum length is about 80mm"
Malanistic variation: "Limited melanism is evident in fish that live with anemones of the genus Stichodactyla; the margin around the white bars is deep black, and in some specimens, considerably expanded."
Chapter 2 Pg 102 - A.polymnus
Melanistic variation: "Fish associated with H.crispa are usually entirely dark except for the white bars and caudal fin margin and tannish snout."
Chapter 2 Pg 108 - A.sebae
Melanistic variation: "Some individuals are entirely dark brown to blackish on the body, (except for white bars), lacking yellow-orange color on the snout, breast, and belly. It is not known if the variation is associated with a particular anemone host."
It should be noted that S.haddoni is listed as the only host anemone species by the authors.
Chapter 2 Pg 112 - A.tricinctus
Melanistic variation: Fish associated with S.mertensii are entirely black or dark brown with with two or three white bars.
It should be noted that this is only time the authors are completely definitive in regards to a particular fish/anemone combination and color of the fish.
Chapter 5 Pg 140 - How anemone and fish can affect one another
2nd paragraph "In another instance of anemone affecting fish, the normally orange colored portions of the fish darken, so that the fish is black, rather than orange with white stripes. This type of melanism differs from that associated with size and certain isolated geographical populations, (see chapter 2). Only certain species of fish react this way, and only in certain species of actinians - for example, A.chrysopterus in S.mertensii and A.polymnus in H.crispa. Such changes may be relatively rapid so that an orange fish transferred to another anemone will darken within a matter of hours. Lightening, once removed from that host, generally occurs more slowly. The adaptive value of this reaction to either partner is unknown.
What I'm seeing here is alot of hypothesis and anecdotal evidence, not studies or definitive proof showing this does in fact happen and under what circumstances it occurs. I'm not knocking Drs Fautin and Allen, but when this was written, they were unsure if Black Ocellaris from Darwin were due to anemones or not. I think it's safe to say it's a genetic trait unrelated to anemones.
My personal experience with my Rod's Onyx was probably food related.
They were dark black for a long time both with and without a healthy H.magnifica anemone. Then for about a 6 moth period they went brown. I'm unsure what exactly caused the color shift. I started feeding whole foods such as raw uncooked shrimp chunks and scallop strips and they darkened back up to the black they had always been. They'd been with the same anemone during the entire process. Currently they are with a different H.magnifica anemone and are still just as black as before.
My point in this is that while there is a strong correlation between some anemones and some clowns with regard to melanism, it is not fully understood and has not been defined, nor has a cause of it been determined.
It should also be noted that not a single one of the listed anemone/fish combinations were with S.gigantea. All were either S.mertensii or even H.crispa which was claimed in this thread to cause clowns to loose color.
Right now, what we have is hypotheses and anecdotal reports.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
$60-$150.
ThRoewer
New member
The mated pairs at Baja were $150. Those were mostly onyx and had been collected and kept together throughout the shipping and handling process. Of those pairs both, male and female were nearly identical in size.
Aquarium Concepts asked $90 for a pair but I think they just put a large and a small together. Also those were all the more of the orange color form.
Single percula go for $40 to $50. I took those and matched them to each other.
Aquarium Concepts asked $90 for a pair but I think they just put a large and a small together. Also those were all the more of the orange color form.
Single percula go for $40 to $50. I took those and matched them to each other.
CoralsAddiction
Active member
Basically same in Socal. $60 for two clowns that were paired up by a store and $150 for "true pairs". Cheapest individual true percs from SI are $24.99.
Not bad.thank you
Not bad at all and bonded that's a plus.thanks for the info guys.
Similar threads
