Sonny's Rimless Shallow Reef.

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433426#post15433426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mg426
Any suggestions ?????

Hello

I would turn off the GFO and start up with MB7 bacteria dosing for at at least one week, preferably two weeks. From my own experiences and those of others dosing vodka I have come to the conclusion that bacteria is necessary in order to get the most out of the system and to offset problems such as red cyano.

Keep an eye on your DSB as some have reported issues with DSB's and "Zeo" style systems. If possible, you may be better off simply removing the remote DSB all together.

Do you have any sand in the main display?

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433972#post15433972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
hello sonny
I started to dose vodka today and I just want to check one more time I got this right. I have a net volume of 77 gallons so that's 1 ml of vodka for every 25 gallons. So for the first three days I add 3 mls and days 4,5,6 and 7 add 6 ml and each week after the first add 1/2 ml or .5 to the 6mls until I see my P and N go down to zero.

What proof vodka are you using?

If you are using 40 Proof you start out at 0.2ml, if using 80 proof you start out at 0.1ml per 25gl.

Looks like you forgot the decimal point, follow these charts below:

Taken from this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

 

[Ed Reef]

IMO I think for ULNS, his DSB will have to go as most DSB's are nutrient sinks with a massive surface area and what often happens is the additional carbon source just combine with the stored nutrients in the DBS and thus making the carbon source non-effective

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15435179#post15435179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ancelot
My net gallon is approximately 45 US gallons. My tank is 3 by 1.5 by 1.5 so minus 10% equivalent to rocks and sand, should be about 45

You see brother, the problem with my tank is that I start off with Prodibio BioDigest instead of MB7. So I am kinda confused with which set of instructions should I follow for my MB7 dosage; the medium to high nutrient system or the stable, low nutrient system. Technically, my tank is already seeded with BioDigest bacteria so I was hoping that I can go ahead with the "stable, low nutrient" dosage.
Let me know what you think.

P.S: Just to share,
I just got my hands on a lux-meter yesterday night. Got some readings for my 6x39watts retrofit.

Under the tubes: 47000 lux
Below water surface: 7650 lux
Midway down the tank: 2600 lux
On the bottom: 1000 lux

Understand that unlike for par meter's probe, the lux meter's probe cannot be submerged underwater so for the latter 3 readings, I did it outside of my tank with the probe sticking to the tank's wall. Yeap.
what do you all think for a SPS tank? Sufficient? and is there a conversion table for lux to par readings? Let me know too. heh.

Happy Reefing,
Marc J.

Hello Marc

Your dosage will depend on whether your system is "clean" or "dirty". If you have algae present and brown corals then the medium dosage would be what I would start with. If you feel that your system has been already properly seeded with Prodibio then start up with the low nutrient daily dosage and +/- from there based on your observations.

As for LUX, the formula is:

Lux ÷ Constant = µmol·m2·sec

For example, with a Radium bulb you would divide the LUX by 51 in order to get an estimate of the PAR.

The table for conversion can be found HERE
There are some T5 conversion numbers HERE as well.

I dont test my PAR or LUX because I feel that there are too many factors at play. Some days my water is clearer then others so any underwater tests can be misleading. The ideal method of testing would be to isolate the lighting fixture alone in a controlled setting.

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15436145#post15436145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ed Reef
IMO I think for ULNS, his DSB will have to go as most DSB's are nutrient sinks with a massive surface area and what often happens is the additional carbon source just combine with the stored nutrients in the DBS and thus making the carbon source non-effective

Thanks for the explanation, Ed.

Guy and gals, remember that this carbon/bacteria based method is not a quick fix or magical concoction. Read as much as you can on these dosing systems in order to get the most out of them. Learn from yours and others mistakes, as well as triumphs. When you learn how to harness the power of nature, there will be no limit to what you can create in a reef display.

Sonny :thumbsup:

 

[mojo~]

SUnny, I am still dosing mb7 seems like thing are slowly getting cleared up after the little crash I had.

however I said heck with it and just got a Rimless tank to try out. I bought a oceanic illuminata tech tank with starphire glass. pick it up saturday. just need to descide on lights. Thought about going with a fixture shorter than the tank. 36 inch long tank. Keep up theg ood work here.

 

[Lyfey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433010#post15433010 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Hello

Anytime you are moving out liverock and stirring up the sandbed you can have issues. You could do what you are planning to do and move out the rock but you may risk raising your nutrients by removing the rocks so quickly.

The best method would be take the rocks out slowly. But, then again your system is only two months old so the changes may not have that much of a negative effect.

Cooking the rock is great as it can rejuvenate the rock and kill off any harmful algae. You will have to do weekly water changes in the tub and shake the rocks up daily. See if you can place some PVC and eggcrate so you can create a platform for the rocks to rest on in order to receive all around flow. Be sure and scrub the rocks down with a tooth brush and remove all visible algae.

You guys are going to be amazed at how much crud the rocks will shed.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

Good idea on the egg crating, can I buy that a home good type store? I am going to research more on cooking rock.. I know theres an article in reefkeeping somewhere, does anyone have any good links and info on cooking rock?

As far as rock removal into the cooking bin.. what say you, if we took half of the rock out each time over a period of a week?

How much LR do I need for my 75 gal / 30 gal sump to function properly? I was always going by the 1lb / gallon at least. Another reefer said that was not neccessary and that was a marketing ploy to buy more rock. How much do we really need?!

Thanks for the advice!! Im stoked!

 

[Ancelot]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15436241#post15436241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Hello Marc

Your dosage will depend on whether your system is "clean" or "dirty". If you have algae present and brown corals then the medium dosage would be what I would start with. If you feel that your system has been already properly seeded with Prodibio then start up with the low nutrient daily dosage and +/- from there based on your observations.

As for LUX, the formula is:

Lux ÷ Constant = µmol·m2·sec

For example, with a Radium bulb you would divide the LUX by 51 in order to get an estimate of the PAR.

The table for conversion can be found HERE
There are some T5 conversion numbers HERE as well.

I dont test my PAR or LUX because I feel that there are too many factors at play. Some days my water is clearer then others so any underwater tests can be misleading. The ideal method of testing would be to isolate the lighting fixture alone in a controlled setting.

Hello Sonny!

Algae? what algae are we talking here? GHA? I currently do not have those, but I do have brown algae which are diatoms and perhaps some brown slime algae. This happens all the time after I dose Biodigest and the algae will stay for approximate 2-3 weeks before they exit from my tank in an explosive manner. So I do not know how to classify my tank actually.
Do you think it's clean from what I described? :X

okay, about LUX, I do not have much of a clue. I was purely curious to borrow the LUX meter for measurement but anyway thanks bro for the links to the conversion. I'll still go ahead with my plan and focus more on observations of my corals rather than scientific readings from an instrument.

Happy Reefing,
Marc J.

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15436520#post15436520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mojo~
SUnny, I am still dosing mb7 seems like thing are slowly getting cleared up after the little crash I had.

however I said heck with it and just got a Rimless tank to try out. I bought a oceanic illuminata tech tank with starphire glass. pick it up saturday. just need to descide on lights. Thought about going with a fixture shorter than the tank. 36 inch long tank. Keep up theg ood work here.

Congrats on the new tank!

Do you plan on going with MH or T5 for the new setup?

 

[mojo~]

mh with t5 supp think either that or a sunpower

 

[mg426]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15435979#post15435979 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Hello

I would turn off the GFO and start up with MB7 bacteria dosing for at at least one week, preferably two weeks. From my own experiences and those of others dosing vodka I have come to the conclusion that bacteria is necessary in order to get the most out of the system and to offset problems such as red cyano.

Keep an eye on your DSB as some have reported issues with DSB's and "Zeo" style systems. If possible, you may be better off simply removing the remote DSB all together.

Do you have any sand in the main display?

I have just enough sand in the main display to cover the bottom Less than 1 inch, It gets siphoned every water change.

 

[Reefer08]

Sunny, do you prefer to run your carbon (GAC) in a mesh bag or in a reactor? Ive always ran mine in a mesh bag but im thinking of making the switch.


Also do you think too much carbon (GAC) is bad? I know a lot of companies recommend only a certain amount, but removing too much yellow compounds and toxins can't possibly be a bad thing right?

thanks

 

[trueblackpercula]

Thank you again sonny I did miss the decimal point. I also forgot to add the sump as well. I have a total of 99 gallons so I started dosing .4 tonight. Thanks for the chart another member gave it to me as well what a life saver.
Thanks will keep you updated.
Michael

 

[JCR's Reef]

You should write a book Sonny. LOL.
So if there is a little patch of brown slime algae that's an indication of too much MB7? Or a build of bacteria? Seems like the more MB7 I dose, the more nasty my skimmer pulls out. But I am seeing small patches on my backwall I scrape off once a week. I'll have to try to find a more balanced dose.

 

[newsalt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15429907#post15429907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
It brings out the blue's and helps with the overall brightness and health of my corals.

Sunny, What about Zeovit's PIF to bring out the blues?

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15436885#post15436885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lyfey
Good idea on the egg crating, can I buy that a home good type store? I am going to research more on cooking rock.. I know there's an article in reefkeeping somewhere, does anyone have any good links and info on cooking rock?

As far as rock removal into the cooking bin.. what say you, if we took half of the rock out each time over a period of a week?

How much LR do I need for my 75 gal / 30 gal sump to function properly? I was always going by the 1lb / gallon at least. Another reefer said that was not necessary and that was a marketing ploy to buy more rock. How much do we really need?!

Thanks for the advice!! I'm stoked!

Home Depot and Lowes will have them near the Lumber in the back of the store.

The whole pounds for gl no longer applies as we now have much better understanding of the hobby and better filtration. Some systems in Japan have no rock at all and still function great.

Here are the rock cooking instructions from RC member SeanT:



by SeanT
Here are the "Rock Cooking" instructions:

The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15436949#post15436949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ancelot
Hello Sonny!

Algae? what algae are we talking here? GHA? I currently do not have those, but I do have brown algae which are diatoms and perhaps some brown slime algae. This happens all the time after I dose Biodigest and the algae will stay for approximate 2-3 weeks before they exit from my tank in an explosive manner. So I do not know how to classify my tank actually.
Do you think it's clean from what I described? :X

okay, about LUX, I do not have much of a clue. I was purely curious to borrow the LUX meter for measurement but anyway thanks bro for the links to the conversion. I'll still go ahead with my plan and focus more on observations of my corals rather than scientific readings from an instrument.

Happy Reefing,
Marc J.

It sounds like your system is pretty clean. The brown slime is usually and indicator of bacteria overdosing so you may want to start out with only 2-4 drops a day of MB7. Keep adding a drop a day until you hit the "low nutrient" dosing level on the bottle. If you notice any brown slime then scale back your bacteria to half of what you were dosing that day. After about a month you should be able to correctly calculate how much MB7 is needed.

Good luck!

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15439415#post15439415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer08
Sunny, do you prefer to run your carbon (GAC) in a mesh bag or in a reactor? Ive always ran mine in a mesh bag but im thinking of making the switch.


Also do you think too much carbon (GAC) is bad? I know a lot of companies recommend only a certain amount, but removing too much yellow compounds and toxins can't possibly be a bad thing right?

thanks

I run my carbon in a mesh bag. If you change out your carbon regularly then adding in a little extra carbon isn't that bad. The issue comes when you suddenly swap out very old carbon for new carbon. Your corals can get stressed from the rapid increase of light caused by the carbon absorbing the yellowing compounds. Carbon is very effective so I wouldn't stray too far form the manufactures recommendations.

 

[Lowredranger]

Thanks for the info sunny, I am down to a capful of MB7 daily and 2ml of vodka, I will probably up the dosage of vodka in a week or so after testing.
Thanks again
Jason

 

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15440986#post15440986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCR's Reef
You should write a book Sonny. LOL.
So if there is a little patch of brown slime algae that's an indication of too much MB7? Or a build of bacteria? Seems like the more MB7 I dose, the more nasty my skimmer pulls out. But I am seeing small patches on my backwall I scrape off once a week. I'll have to try to find a more balanced dose.

A book...."Sonny's Guide to Reefing". :lol:

Brown slime is u sally and indication of MB7 overdose. Scale back a little on the dosing and work your way back up. Eventually you will find the right dosage.

Sonny