sorry foe another Ich Question

[bbowler1]

So what happens to the disease if it is in the tank but the lone fish in there is continually healthy enough that there are no apparent effects? Does the parasite run its course and die or can it sustain itself without somehow killing the host like normal?

Thanks,

 

[snorvich]

So what happens to the disease if it is in the tank but the lone fish in there is continually healthy enough that there are no apparent effects? Does the parasite run its course and die or can it sustain itself without somehow killing the host like normal?

Thanks,

A small number of fish develop temporary immunity to the strain of cryptocaryon irritans they encounter. However, they are carriers of that strain and can infect other newly introduced fish.

 

[bbowler1]

ok thank you.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

ICH will always be in your tank until you remove the last fish and leave the tank fishless for 76 days.

 

[microlady]

ICH will always be in your tank until you remove the last fish and leave the tank fishless for 76 days.

I thought it was 72?

 

[ThRoewer]

I thought it was 72?

72 days was so far the longest observed time between encystment and excystment in a lab under controlled conditions.
That does not mean all ich strains will stay encysted for that long.
Neither is it for sure the absolute maximum. I can imagine there are local strains that can produce cysts that may lay in wait for a year or more.

There have been quite a few reports about failures to eradicate ich with TTM and 72 days fallow. And while some may be due to improper sterilization during TTM, the possibility can not be discarded that some may have been due to 72 days not being enough.

It has also not been properly investigated if there are any triggers that may cause the cyst to hatch. Possible triggers could be the presence of fish (detected by chemical signature in the water), oxygen level changes, redox potential changes,...

So in essence, nobody can give you a guarantee that your tank is ich free after being 72 days fallow.
On the other hand your tank may be totally ich free after only 6 weeks of fallow.

In the end, you got to make an educated decision for how long you want to leave your system fallow.
11 weeks would give you a pretty good probability that it is gone, though nobody can actually give you a guarantee for that.

 

[snorvich]

Yes, the back end of the life cycle is very unpredictable and may vary by strain. The reports of failure with TTM and fallow of 72 days exist but no details were provided so it is difficult to attribute to method or process.

 

[microlady]

I am trying to stay optimistic, and I will keep you posted. After TTM and staying out of the display for 75 days, the fish were added back today.

 

[snorvich]

I am trying to stay optimistic, and I will keep you posted. After TTM and staying out of the display for 75 days, the fish were added back today.

Keep us posted.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I thought it was 72?

72 days was the longest period of time a cyst ruptured and released new parasites that can be alive for 48 hours.So if you do the math, 72 days, plus an additional two days after the last fish is removed the tank an additional two days after the 72 days, should cysts hatch on day 72, = 76. Confused yet?

 

[Dmorty217]

Yes, the back end of the life cycle is very unpredictable and may vary by strain. The reports of failure with TTM and fallow of 72 days exist but no details were provided so it is difficult to attribute to method or process.

User error is the number one factor of failures in this hobby period.

 

[Dmorty217]

Hypo has been shown to not work on certain (most IMO) strains of ich, even when done 100% correctly. So you're either left with cupramine or some other form of copper that is without a doubt toxic to fish.

 

[pmcadams]

So what happens to the disease if it is in the tank but the lone fish in there is continually healthy enough that there are no apparent effects? Does the parasite run its course and die or can it sustain itself without somehow killing the host like normal?

Thanks,

Marine ich must have a host in order to continue. If it cannot reproduce, it will dissipate. I had a tank with one Regal Tang. Several weeks later I added a Flame Angel. On day two of the Flame Angels residence I spotted ich on the angel. A short time later he died and my previously very healthy blue tang suffered an out break. However, other than the obvious discomfort, he kept eating and remained healthy. On the next parasite cycle he suffered a second outbreak. I started looking for a hospital tank, but he never encountered a third out break. I kept track of the days since the last appearance of ich and after a little over two months of no out break, I resumed adding fish and never encountered it again. That was over a year ago.

I believe my situation was rare. I only had one fish in the tank and he was able to resist subsequent occurrences. If I had several fish, I likely would have needed to vacate them to a hospital tank for treatment while my DT stayed fishless long enough for the parasites to die... but to answer your question, it is possible the parasite can run it's course and die with a lone fish present if that fish can resist hosting the parasite.

 

[snorvich]

User error is the number one factor of failures in this hobby period.

I agree. I have offered on a few occasions to analyze someone's process but have always been turned down.

 

[Dmorty217]

I agree. I have offered on a few occasions to analyze someone's process but have always been turned down.

That's just nut, people obviously don't realize what a opportunity they are missing out on with that offer! Oh well can't help someone that doesn't want the help

 

[ThRoewer]

... I had a tank with one Regal Tang. Several weeks later I added a Flame Angel. On day two of the Flame Angels residence I spotted ich on the angel. A short time later he died and my previously very healthy blue tang suffered an out break. However, other than the obvious discomfort, he kept eating and remained healthy. On the next parasite cycle he suffered a second outbreak. I started looking for a hospital tank, but he never encountered a third out break. I kept track of the days since the last appearance of ich and after a little over two months of no out break, I resumed adding fish and never encountered it again. That was over a year ago.

I believe my situation was rare. I only had one fish in the tank and he was able to resist subsequent occurrences. If I had several fish, I likely would have needed to vacate them to a hospital tank for treatment while my DT stayed fishless long enough for the parasites to die... but to answer your question, it is possible the parasite can run it's course and die with a lone fish present if that fish can resist hosting the parasite.

I don't think this is actually a rare thing but rather very common. I have observed it quite often over my 30 years in the hobby and others here too.
If your fish are otherwise healthy and not stressed they can survive a mild outbreak and acquire enough immunity/resistance to be symptom free. Some may even be completely ich free.

I attribute most of the cases where many, if not all fish died of ich to those fish being stressed out and not very healthy to begin with. If you then bring ich into the tank these fish have no chance of fighting it off and each wave weakens them more until the infection reaches a lethal level.

When in doubt, better make sure not to get it into your tank. And even if it is already in there it is still a good idea to put every new fish through TTM so that you don't add new ich strains.

 

[microlady]

72 days was the longest period of time a cyst ruptured and released new parasites that can be alive for 48 hours.So if you do the math, 72 days, plus an additional two days after the last fish is removed the tank an additional two days after the 72 days, should cysts hatch on day 72, = 76. Confused yet?

Nope, not confused. But I have read the number 72 over and over again so I wanted to clear it up. The experiments were done at much cooler temps than 80 degrees. I have never seen 76. My fish went back in on day 75.