SPS Corals Missing Color
- Thread starter dtum
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AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Plenty of other threads to argue LEDs vs halides, etc. Anyways, just wanted to mention it in case it is a factor in the color loss. OP: I hope your plan of action works for you.
I dumped G2 radions a month ago to go back to T5s.
The colors just sucked. Period. I've changed nothing else, and am seeing more color already. Still a long ways to go. Mixed tanks are great for radions. SPS tanks are not.
That's my two cents. :deadhorse:
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Sure there is more to coloration in corals than just lighting as you say, but wouldn't you say the single biggest factor in coral coloration is lighting? I know I would.
dtum
New member
I am so looking forward to the next few weeks so that I can either support or dismiss that claim.
I am a lot of posts behind, but I don't run carbon, GFO or bio-anything (vodka, sugar, vinegar, BPs) in my SPS tank. Any of these three will result in a loss of color in my tanks. I get no yellowing of the water, but I also have a lot of skimmer. None of these things are necessary and in some cases, they hurt.
Here is what I am looking for:
1). slight bit of algae in the tank that some astrea snails and a few emerald crabs can easily take care of
2). "clear" results on Salifert test kit for both nitrate and phosphate
You have no idea how hard it is for me to stay off of the lights right now... I will just say that I also think that they are by far the most important factor, but perhaps that is because I have not really though much about water quality for years and years.
Here is what I am looking for:
1). slight bit of algae in the tank that some astrea snails and a few emerald crabs can easily take care of
2). "clear" results on Salifert test kit for both nitrate and phosphate
You have no idea how hard it is for me to stay off of the lights right now... I will just say that I also think that they are by far the most important factor, but perhaps that is because I have not really though much about water quality for years and years.
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
I am so looking forward to the next few weeks so that I can either support or dismiss that claim.
There are many Reefers that would look at your tank and say "I don't understand what he is talking about? That reef looks amazing!" And your tank is really nice. But you can tell the difference when it is your reef. I know I could in the whole LED-metal halide thing I went through, not to bring that debate up again.
I don't use the Prodibio System or any Zeovit products on my 465 gallon bare bottom SPS reef. I felt I could point to the lighting in my tank because I have maintained the same basic regimen since the tank was set up, the only variable being the lighting. I dose kalk through my ATO, skim heavily (Alpha-Vertex 300), use Rox .08, GFO, 150 watt Emperor Aquatics Smart UV, low dose ozone into the skimmer for clarity. Auto change 4.6 gallons a day (about 1% system volume), 4x mp60 and 2x mp40s for flow. And I just feed the fish. No dosing of anything else.
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dtum
New member
LOL, I have a very clear vision on what I want the tank to look like. And currently the tank is quite far from it - some corals have not grown large enough, too many bare spots, coloration is not at its brightest... plus my auxiliary refugium tank is not fully laid out yet.
I've also had a few setbacks, which I've enjoyed immensely, since they've given me a chance to learn quite a few new things, and that part of the hobby is what I like the most.
What I also find fascinating is the uniqueness of experiences out there, one strategy that worked wonders for one reef may fail with another. This truly is a system where there really are just guidelines and the rest is individual.
After all, there's nothing like a well running balanced reef.
I'm definitely looking forward to trying out the nutrition strategy first, before I look elsewhere.
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
Any color opinions aside, what I can relate about my use of Radions is that not all SPS grow quickly under them. Some grow fast, and some not, outside of the fact that some SPS just are slow growers, like Purple Monster, for example, and others like Green Slimer are fast, comparatively.
Here is a recent side pic of my 465 taken with a cheapo PAS digital. Colors aren't great because I am not a good photographer, the 400 watt Radiums wash out the pics. But if you look at the pic of the coral just to the right of the BlueLine Angel, the actual color is an intense, deep purple Blue. You are a good picture taker, by the way. I'll try to get a top down pic of the coral later when lights come on to get the real color in a pic.
I don't find this to be too terribly true when you consider the level the reefer is on. I am into high ends SPS with large(ish) tanks - most of the people that I know that are on the same level with the same goals do more similar things than different. At least for me, I find that similar experience and goals tend to gravitate together. I am not saying that EVERYTHING is the same, or anything... just that more is the same than different.
I do find this to be VERY true when you consider the hobbyist experience level and goals of the tank and they do not align. I do not expect what I do in my tanks to work in a brand new nano-sized zoa garden.
Alex T.
Active member
While I understand the low nutrient method, I have a hard time justifying its' use. The reason being is that you promote bacterial growth to consume nutrients only so that you can add them back to the tank when your corals go pale. Even when I wasn't dosing vodka, vinegar, sugar (or whatever method you choose) a zero reading on nitrates and phosphates never proved to be successful for me. What seemed more sustainable and measurable was to make sure my nitrates were at least single digit readings, and that phosphate was measurable on my Hannah Checker up to .05.
If you want the pastel look that low nutrient systems seem to produce, I'd say go for it. But, it just seems counterintuitive to get the system to low nutrient levels only to dose back all the coral enhancing products and foods that many of these companies sell. There are so many beautiful SPS tanks with nitrates much higher than mine (5ppm at the moment) with deep, rich colors and beautiful polyp extension. You can either leave a little dirt in the water and feed your fish well, or strip it clean only to add it all back when you want to tweak colors. The ULNS approach just seems so much more tedious and time consuming, but then again...I work a lot of hours and don't always see the tank at the same time of the day with my business. If you're staying with a ULNS approach, I'd say just tweak the colors with color enhancing products and amino acids. I do know that simply removing the ROX might be all the change you need. ROX is extremely aggressive, and in a system that's already teetering on the edge, it may not be what you're looking for. You may want to just change one thing this month and see how your system responds instead of making all the changes you listed and guess which ones worked or not.
Just my .02
If you want the pastel look that low nutrient systems seem to produce, I'd say go for it. But, it just seems counterintuitive to get the system to low nutrient levels only to dose back all the coral enhancing products and foods that many of these companies sell. There are so many beautiful SPS tanks with nitrates much higher than mine (5ppm at the moment) with deep, rich colors and beautiful polyp extension. You can either leave a little dirt in the water and feed your fish well, or strip it clean only to add it all back when you want to tweak colors. The ULNS approach just seems so much more tedious and time consuming, but then again...I work a lot of hours and don't always see the tank at the same time of the day with my business. If you're staying with a ULNS approach, I'd say just tweak the colors with color enhancing products and amino acids. I do know that simply removing the ROX might be all the change you need. ROX is extremely aggressive, and in a system that's already teetering on the edge, it may not be what you're looking for. You may want to just change one thing this month and see how your system responds instead of making all the changes you listed and guess which ones worked or not.
Just my .02
trueblackpercula
New member
Thanks for your .2 cents so if I understand you and I do if I stop dosing vodka my sps will color up and what do I do with the PO4 and nitrates? GFO and water changes ? I am not debating still learning and I have been dosing vodka since July and I think my sps look better now the ever before but that doesn't mean they couldn't be better.
What's your advice ?
d3hree
New member
^^I agree with this.
Ammonia and nitrate account for around 70-ish% of the available food to corals...with stuff like aminos making up around 21%. i have never understood the practise of spending all your time effort and money in removing the nutrients (coral food) from the water only to then spend more money adding stuff like amino acids back in.
IMO the best tanks, the most vibrant and rich colours in corals are high in nutrients, or atleast higher than you'd expect and for the most part this is just done with heavy fish feeding.
Ammonia and nitrate account for around 70-ish% of the available food to corals...with stuff like aminos making up around 21%. i have never understood the practise of spending all your time effort and money in removing the nutrients (coral food) from the water only to then spend more money adding stuff like amino acids back in.
IMO the best tanks, the most vibrant and rich colours in corals are high in nutrients, or atleast higher than you'd expect and for the most part this is just done with heavy fish feeding.
a.browning
New member
A LOT of good info in this thread.
OP, please update as time progresses. I find myself in a similar situation as you-- most people would see nothing wrong with my system, but certain corals could be better in color IMO. I do agree that in your case, it sounds like a nutrient issue (nitrate specifically). I think your plan for the coming weeks sounds good, get a little more food in the water column and you should see some colors start to come back.
OP, please update as time progresses. I find myself in a similar situation as you-- most people would see nothing wrong with my system, but certain corals could be better in color IMO. I do agree that in your case, it sounds like a nutrient issue (nitrate specifically). I think your plan for the coming weeks sounds good, get a little more food in the water column and you should see some colors start to come back.
Patrick Cox
Active member
I have been battling something very similar. Good growth but pale colors. Even after turning off my ROX and GFO reactors, my nitrates barely got up to 1. I keep reading in these threads that to get good colors you need to raise your nitrates but I can't seem to get there. So how is one supposed to raise nitrates? Thanks!
dtum
New member
Yikes, I did another set of measurements and was shocked to see my phosphates at 0, while they were at 0.05 just a week ago. Now I did not use any GFO at all, so have no idea why it has come down so fast.
My nitrates are barely detectible on my Elos test kit, I'll be buying a Red Sea one in the next couple of days for greater accuracy.
While I'm failing to color up all of my colors yet, I can at least color up this thread.
<img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3810/10147664453_5fb72d77a7_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="DSC02585">
Well, I'm starting to feed my fish more.
My nitrates are barely detectible on my Elos test kit, I'll be buying a Red Sea one in the next couple of days for greater accuracy.
While I'm failing to color up all of my colors yet, I can at least color up this thread.
<img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3810/10147664453_5fb72d77a7_b.jpg" width="1024" height="680" alt="DSC02585">
Well, I'm starting to feed my fish more.
