SPS - Death from the tips - HELP!

[stpatrick]

Hi Everyone. I have an interesting issue happening right now. I have a couple SPS that are dieing/receding from the tips down. They appear to go brown and peal back. Any ideas? Running water test now and will report back.

Params where:

CA-400, ALK-7, PO4-0, NO3-2. This was my numbers after I did a 20% water change. I can only imagine the Alk was 6 - 6.5. What does ALK this low do? No other changes to system.

Will low ALK cause this browning of SPS tips? I am in the process of doing another water change and raising my alk up to around 8.

 

[Hentz]

What lighting are you running?
How high?
What's the intensity, if LED?

 

[stpatrick]

ATI power module. I have not changed the the intensity settings in over a month. t5s are both channels 100%. LEDs are abut 70%

 

[stpatrick]

 

[ReefWreak]

Have you double-tested your alkalinity (either with a second kit, or at the LFS)? I'm under the impression that tip burn is usually/frequently alkalinity. The cyano/brown algae is just moving in when the tips died.

The thing is your alk shouldn't get much below 6.5-7, since it would likely lead to your pH dropping significantly, which would start to dissolve your sand (and potentially rock) which brings the alk/calcium back up again.

 

[stpatrick]

Have you double-tested your alkalinity (either with a second kit, or at the LFS)? I'm under the impression that tip burn is usually/frequently alkalinity. The cyano/brown algae is just moving in when the tips died.

The thing is your alk shouldn't get much below 6.5-7, since it would likely lead to your pH dropping significantly, which would start to dissolve your sand (and potentially rock) which brings the alk/calcium back up again.

Great point. I noticed last week on one of my SPS that the tips where very soft. I played it off as new growth. That could be from low ph correct?

 

[BrentH]

i had this happen when i mess with gfo or the phosphate levels drastically also with alk higher then 9 with low nutrients ...it almost looks like the coral is lite burned a bit how its dead on the side that gets light?

 

[reef bloke]

Check your iodine levels.

 

[Icefire]

Burnt tips are mostly Alk swing, Alk too high in Ultra Low nutriment tank.

 

[reef bloke]

Personally I have found stripped tips are due to oxidising agents building up within the growth tips of the coral due to over production of sugars and O2 by the corals zooxanthellea in high light. More over if Iodine is at 0ppm there is nothing to counter the Free radicals and oxidisers at the tips as in my opinion Iodine is used by the coral as an anti-oxidant . I have seen burnt tips repair within days after my systems Iodine has been adjusted from 0 to 0.06ppm ( iodine levels checked via hobby kits and ICP lab tests).

Low nutrient systems may be more prone to this but I don't feel the condition is exclusive to low nutrient systems

Just my 2 pence for what it's worth.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Are you carbon dosing? How about GFO and GAC?

 

[Spslvr]

Personally I have found stripped tips are due to oxidising agents building up within the growth tips of the coral due to over production of sugars and O2 by the corals zooxanthellea in high light. More over if Iodine is at 0ppm there is nothing to counter the Free radicals and oxidisers at the tips as in my opinion Iodine is used by the coral as an anti-oxidant . I have seen burnt tips repair within days after my systems Iodine has been adjusted from 0 to 0.06ppm ( iodine levels checked via hobby kits and ICP lab tests).

Low nutrient systems may be more prone to this but I don't feel the condition is exclusive to low nutrient systems

Just my 2 pence for what it's worth.

I think there is something in that, ive been an advocate for iodine dosing for 20 odd years i think its benefits are more than we understand, i run biopellets, gfo have zero no3 and po4 and run my alk at 9.5 and even as high as 12 have had alk swings that most would screem about and ive never had burnt tips....

 

[Myka]

run my alk at 9.5 and even as high as 12 have had alk swings that most would screem about and ive never had burnt tips....

It's always ok until that time that it isn't. Looks like you found your culprit. The picture looks like alkalinity swing or high alkalinity. If you're doing both, then you have both bases covered.

 

[Spslvr]

Not sure im following

 

[Myka]

Not sure im following

You keep high alkalinity and you have fluctuating alkalinity. SPS often have issues with either of those and you're doing both so that's double bad.

 

[Spslvr]

You mentioned culprit and said my photos look like alk swings, jus wondering what u base that on, good consistant linear growth?, vibrant colors? Healthy tissue? That tank was grown from frags and small colonies...

All i can think is you are refering to thr paled out montis in the fts, that was actually a direct result of dosing tech m to control bryopsis as soon as the bryopsis died all my montis and a few stags bleached....

Far as i know there is no correlation between bryopsis snd alk?

And the topic of this thread is burnt tips and has been steared in the direction of butnt tips with high alk in a carbon dosed system, fair enough you can level as much critisism of my tank as you like but guess what..... My tips arnt burned!

 

[Myka]

Wow, take a breather bud. I'm referring to what appears to be burned tips with algae growing on them on the bluish stag in the middle of the (terrible) photo. A million people would tell you this often happens when you carbon dose and have high alkalinity OR any system with alkalinity swings. Some people seem to get away with high alkalinity and carbon dosing, but it doesn't appear that it is working for you anymore. Try dropping your alkalinity down to 8 dKH, keep it steady, and see if the problem goes away. It's the only thing you've said so far that raises any red flags. Sorry it's not the answer you want. What makes you think it's NOT the alkalinity swing?? Do you think SPS like 6.0 dKH?

 

[stpatrick]

i had this happen when i mess with gfo or the phosphate levels drastically also with alk higher then 9 with low nutrients ...it almost looks like the coral is lite burned a bit how its dead on the side that gets light?

Good points.

Check your iodine levels.

Never check Never needed to.

Burnt tips are mostly Alk swing, Alk too high in Ultra Low nutriment tank.

I believe it was cause from low alk. Then I would do a water change with the alk higher then the tank. That started the swing. I think.

Personally I have found stripped tips are due to oxidising agents building up within the growth tips of the coral due to over production of sugars and O2 by the corals zooxanthellea in high light. More over if Iodine is at 0ppm there is nothing to counter the Free radicals and oxidisers at the tips as in my opinion Iodine is used by the coral as an anti-oxidant . I have seen burnt tips repair within days after my systems Iodine has been adjusted from 0 to 0.06ppm ( iodine levels checked via hobby kits and ICP lab tests).

Low nutrient systems may be more prone to this but I don't feel the condition is exclusive to low nutrient systems

Just my 2 pence for what it's worth.

I will check the iodine levels tomorrow. I also backed the leds down a little. I run the ATI 8Xt5 leds hybrid. My low nutrients are from the old fashion reef keeping. I run a big Fuge and a DSB in a 35 gallon reserve barrel plumed into the system.

Are you carbon dosing? How about GFO and GAC?

No and no. See above

I think there is something in that, ive been an advocate for iodine dosing for 20 odd years i think its benefits are more than we understand, i run biopellets, gfo have zero no3 and po4 and run my alk at 9.5 and even as high as 12 have had alk swings that most would screem about and ive never had burnt tips....

My first time. I got a little over confident :eek1:

It's always ok until that time that it isn't. Looks like you found your culprit. The picture looks like alkalinity swing or high alkalinity. If you're doing both, then you have both bases covered.

for sure not high alk. Probably just a rouge swing because I got to comfortable and not tested the water. I new better. As corals grow and get bigger they consume more elements. Hence my drop in both calcium and Alk...

You keep high alkalinity and you have fluctuating alkalinity. SPS often have issues with either of those and you're doing both so that's double bad.

Not to high. I maintain 8.5

Wow, take a breather bud. I'm referring to what appears to be burned tips with algae growing on them on the bluish stag in the middle of the (terrible) photo. A million people would tell you this often happens when you carbon dose and have high alkalinity OR any system with alkalinity swings. Some people seem to get away with high alkalinity and carbon dosing, but it doesn't appear that it is working for you anymore. Try dropping your alkalinity down to 8 dKH, keep it steady, and see if the problem goes away. It's the only thing you've said so far that raises any red flags. Sorry it's not the answer you want. What makes you think it's NOT the alkalinity swing?? Do you think SPS like 6.0 dKH?

It was the swing. I try to maintain 8.5 - 9. Thats what TM pro is after I mix it. I do 25 gallon water change weekly. I had things come up and skipped a week. That caused my level to drop. I top of nut increasing my dosing pump to higher levels to support the higher demand as corals get big.

 

[Spslvr]

I can asurr you that blue stag does not have burnt tips dude

 

[stpatrick]

Here is a link to a video I did a couple weeks ago. At 1:18 in you will see the Poletti's Yellow tip Healthy.