SPS Noob needs help

[kevin95695]

Hi,

As y'all might be aware I've started the jump to SPS. I have approx 30 frags that get lots of light (250w HQI about 8" away) and mild/moderate flow 18hrs/day, infrigginsane flow the other 6. Most things look very happy-- Some growth, nice color, some new encrusting. Range of SPS. Unfortunately though, I lost a Cali Tort and it looks like I'm going to lose a Pink Birdsnest. I have been dipping new additions and don't see anything predatory on the pieces. However, the Cali Tort just started to die from the base up. It took a few weeks, but the piece just bleached and died bottom-to-top. It looks like the same is now happening to the birdsnest... I'd rather post here in the comfy confines of MARS than on the larger stage of the RC SPS forum. TIA.

Params:
SG 1.024
Temp swing 77-79
Calcium 380-420
Ph 8.2
Nitrate 10-40
dKh 8-10
Phosphate 0.0-0.5

 

[funman1]

Well good prams except the Nitrates..
What's your Mg?

Also what test kits are you using for what?
Salifert has some SERIOUS problems right now. I had to toss 3 of my kits and just eat the cost of them..
PS I'm not using Salifert anymore!!!

 

[kevin95695]

I'm taking measures to reduce the nitrates. I have installed an RDSB, am reducing the fish/food load, and am doing 5% daily water changes. My fear is that the last time I worked so hard to get things in line with common param limits, I had lots of probs just due to the rapid changes. Sometimes bad stable is better than good change.

I'm using Aquarium Pharm test kits all 'round. Don't have a magnesium test kit but I figure w/water changes that shouldn't be an issue -- But just-in-case I've asked Santa for one.

 

[mpoletti]

You won't lose a piece base up from high nitrates. They will brown out first. Did it glow slow or fast? RTN or STN

Alkalinity is the most important spec in an SPS tank. After that it is MG and CA. What salt are you using?

5% water changes won't do anything for you. There are many studies that show the biggest improvement in water conditions is between 20-30%. All you are doing is slowly replacing trace elements.

SPS is a tricky game. It is also a fun game. One day everything looks great and the next, you want to sell your tank.

 

[dots]

With that said, buy a Elos Alk kit, and use RO/DI water if you already don't.

If your have a problem with RTN (rapid tissue necrosis), or STN (slow tissue necrosis), it is 9 times out of 10 a lack of stability in you Alkalinity/Calcium or another parameter shift, such as not topping off daily.

What SPS really stands for is Stability Promotes Success, which I know first hand.

Im not going to BS you, SPS is the coolest, but the hardest and most unforgiving. Your GOING to break a lot of eggs with this new omlet, so what ever you did before SPS, we really need to reexamine.

Lets start with your Alk/Ca supplementation regiment? Your params.....are you really sure? How are you getting these numbers?

Lets see a picture of the tank. Got a skimmer? How much and how long do you go between WC's?

I am going to bet its an Alk shift causing it because your not used to keeping you params as tight as SPS need and being you have 30 frags, they are sucking the alk and ca right up and you don't realize that its a whole new ballgame now. Or in other words......"you just jumped into the deep end of the pool"

FWIW, I spend about 1/2 hour a night on my SPS tank..........and about 10 minutes a week on my 24 gal nano with no SPS in it......

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11415652#post11415652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9


One day everything looks great and the next, you want to sell your tank.

Sometimes, both in the same day. But if your stubborn and want a challenge........then this is it.

 

[mpoletti]

BTW Kevin, A lot that is around here are opinions, but I can give you a fact; we are very lucky to have the hobbyist in our area and our club. They might not be here and post everyday, but there are some vets that you can rely on when you have question.
Hang in there.

 

[dots]

I know, but I try to post everyday Mark.......sorry I have been busy lately.....hehehehehehehe.:wildone::wildone::wildone:

 

[robertloop]

I'd love to throw in here, but I think the bases have been covered. If you haven't already. Make sure to use a refractometer to check the salt. If you dont have one, check your floater against somones refract at a meeting. Also keep an eye on possible kh swings.

 

[kevin95695]

I test at least twice a week. Religious water changes 5-10% every Sunday if it needs it or not. Supplemental water changes if anything is looking or testing out-of-whack. Start with RO/DI at 0ppm TDS mixed with Reef Chrystals. Salt concentration confirmed w/Milwaukee refracto. Top off at least daily sometimes twice from same water. Alk/Calc numbers are from AP test kits. I know AP is not high end, but results have shown to be consistent with expensive tests to calibrate. pH is almost always 8.2 -- Has only tested at 8.0 twice in the last 6mo's. If dKh tests at 8, I dose with Kent Pro Buffer dKh daily until it reads 10-11 on that evening's test. Calcium is 380 or better and if not, I dose with Kent Expert Series Turbo Calcium granular. Skim 24/7.

The worst problem I had so far was about 8mo's ago I overdosed dKh buffer and it drove down calcium. The recovery caused most of the damage. Like I said, that (and anecdotal evidence from other MARS threads) leads me to believe sometimes bad stable is better than good change.

I posted here specifically because I respect the level of experience found in our club and the kind attitude those veterans have towards the noobs.

Thanks so far everybody.

Sounds like I may be breaking some eggs to make the omelette as dots put it...

 

[mpoletti]

Just a thought, if your DKH is testing at 8 and your are raising it to 10-11, you might be causing too much fluctation.You will need to fing a ways to keep your levels a little more constant, When my DKH gets low, I try to raise it by 1 DKH. That is part of the reason I use a reactor and many people use dosing pumps.

It looks like you are coming along just fine. Is this in the new tank?

 

[kevin95695]

New 150g is still in build phase. Puzzling on the stand at the moment. The questions are from the 75g. My climb from 8-10 dKh usually takes a few days.

 

[mpoletti]

Cool. Another thing, I have found that my SPS respond to higher salt gravity. I never let mine get below 1.025, but I shoot for 1.026.

 

[MrMikeB]

Mark is spot on. The values themselves are important, but the stability of those values over time is even more crucial. A DKH swing of 2.0 over a short period of time can cause problems. My belief is to go bigger so you have more water to work with and more stability within the day. Well at least that's how I justify the larger systems.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11417896#post11417896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin95695
My climb from 8-10 dKh usually takes a few days.

Though this is in the allowable range, you are still on a yo-yo swing that will effect overall growth rates and stress levels, which could cause the loss of more sensitive SPS.

Combined with testing accuracy and precision fluctuations, you could be dipping below "acceptable" and not knowing it.

I suffer from the same thing myself, because of dosage versus natural biological uptake rates, I get creeps with my doser either way and still needs to be kept in check. Without it, it goes to high or low over time and triggers an STN or RTN event.

I would consider switching to a daily two part dosing regiment of B-ionic or Randy's or that other online place, pick a value like 9.5 dkh and try to hold that value as close as you can by topping off, testing for alk, and dosing per need daily.

Like I said, they are a whole lot more sensitive and equally unforgiving. Trust me, I have stories of loss from the summer you do not want......

 

[KMP]

you need a doser

 

[WarrenG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11415652#post11415652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
5% water changes won't do anything for you. There are many studies that show the biggest improvement in water conditions is between 20-30%.

So true. Calfo does changes of at least 50%, and some of the corals are exposed to air for a brief period, but they are still healthier because of all the new water. He says this is also a good way to keep trace minerals at a good level, including some we probably don't regulate to optimal levels. Then again, he's probably not paying for his salt.

A little math... 100 gallon tank, replace 10 gallons. Next week, remove 10% of that and you've removed 9 gallons of the old water and 1 gallon of the recently replaced water, so now you've only got 19 gallons of new water. Next week you'll be taking out 8 gallons of old water and 2 gallons of recently replaced water. After 3 weeks you've removed 3 gallons of new water and 27 gallons of old water.

 

[kevin95695]

In our case a 20%-30% water change would be challenging. And most def would expose many specimens and/or pods to air for a good stretch each time. I'll have to look into rejiggering our water change, maybe plumb a drain or something to accelerate the process. The whole bucket thing is a train wreck.

 

[JJ4417]

Two 55 gallon trash cans on rollers? One for the out and one for the in?

On my next tank I'm going to design it so that I turn knobs and call it done.

 

[P.Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11415652#post11415652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
5% water changes won't do anything for you. There are many studies that show the biggest improvement in water conditions is between 20-30%. All you are doing is slowly replacing trace elements.

Regarding Nitrates I am in complete agreement from my own experiences. I had a nitrate problem with my tank when it was newer after a move. I had to conduct 20-30% water changes every day or two just to keep the nitrates down around 10ppm. This went on for 2 weeks. I used a little sugar here and there as well as a nitrate binding agent (prime) throughout the process. Wether or not this is related to your SPS problems you should get the nitrate down as quickly as you are able to.