SPS not coloring up

[iriejp1]

i agree radiums rock , but i smell something stinky ... these bulbs arent even on the same playing field . apples to doughnuts imo brand color price ... everything is different all together , especially the look !

Negative. I have 4 250w Single Ended hallides. It goes Phx, Rdm, Phx, Rdm. You cant tell where one ends and the other starts.

Trust me dude...its in my tank now. I'm not just speculating. :thumbsup:

Edit: My guess is I probably confused everyone by commenting on my 250 se when the OP has 400w. But frankly my 250's look just like others 400's so I think it is definitely relevant. Or maybe you are thinking of DE which I have no experience with personally. But I do have lots of friends who DO run 20k 400 watters and their SPS is sick. So my original statement still remains true in that regard.

 

[iriejp1]

I really think it's the gfo. I had the same issue with my lps just like you after introducing GFO. It can be very harsh at high concentrations. The half recommended seems like a better idea if you're thinking about implementing it. I use chaeto and wc's and works quite well. No guessing games!

+1 on easing it in. Definitely can do too much too fast. I've done it myself with BRS high cap.

 

[iriejp1]

So what do you like better overrall radiums or phoenix?

My par meter says the Phoenix is slightly better. The color is exactly the same.

 

[kenith]

Tagging along- I run gfo, carbon, and biopellets as well. I wasn't feeding as well before, but have now introduced more fish, feed fish several times a day, and increased dt's/phytofeast/rods food to try to get more color out of my lps/sps. My chaeto doesn't grow at all either. Goes from tight ball to loose strands.

 

[jimrawr]

Tagging along- I run gfo, carbon, and biopellets as well. I wasn't feeding as well before, but have now introduced more fish, feed fish several times a day, and increased dt's/phytofeast/rods food to try to get more color out of my lps/sps. My chaeto doesn't grow at all either. Goes from tight ball to loose strands.

Were you not happy with your SPS colors which is why you increased feedings and the other supplements? How are your parameters? sg/temp/ca/mg/alk/po4?

 

[kenith]

Were you not happy with your SPS colors which is why you increased feedings and the other supplements? How are your parameters? sg/temp/ca/mg/alk/po4?

With increased feedings, I have noticed better lps growth and color. I am not supplementing anything else. I have noticed a lot of color loss since the build, so I came across another thread on photo period reduction and by reducing my cw LEDs to 8 hrs from 12 hrs, and rb LEDs from 12 hrs to 11 hrs, the color has been returning slowly to both sps and lps.

Sps list includes
Purple acro
Ora purple styphora
Pink birdsnest
Green monti
Red monti
Purple monti
A couple other birdnest

All sps have good growth and pe, except color isn't as vibrant (I blame too much lights)

Sg- 1.025
Temp- 78-80
Ca- 420
Mag- 1400
Alk- 9.8
Po4- undetectable

 

[jimrawr]

Well after a week of adding the new Ushio 14k bulb, I dont notice a difference at all in my SPS colors, and in fact I had a frag RTN on me today. Surprisingly this one that RTN today was one that had some nice colo and PE, so didnt expect this. Last time I tested PO4 it was .09

Still having problems with LPS also, lobo/favia have totally lost their colors that they had and dont seem to be returning. There is some missing element here that I think isnt common, maybe my well water has some really strong element in it which is effecting my tank.

Actually maybe this ties into why my RODI water is exhausting after 50 gallons or RODI made. I will replace the DI cartridge with brand new nuclear grade BRS resin, and after 50 gallons its totally orange and reading 002 tds. Can someone make a connection here that I dont know about? And yes, all my filters and membrane are very recently changed.

 

[dantdodge]

Jim in my experience with sps and lps color I see you have changed your lights. First thing I would
1. check for pest.
2. I have grown very colorful sps with po4 reading above recommended levels
3. Same with nitrates.
4. With new lights I always turn my light cycle back. if I am running for 6 hours total I will cut back to 1 hr and add 30min to my timer each day I have noticed this helps corals color up at a much faster rate if they are new or been dipped or new bulbs have been put in.
5. I would get rid of anything you are dosing and just do a water change every week with a good reef salt. I you can do with out all the additives for a few weeks that will also help you eliminate possible causes. So go back to basics your tank doesnt look very new. So you have good lighting check for pest keep your skimmer going if your chetto is not growing you have nothing to feed it or its being burnt by light raise it up or cut back the cycle alk is something that I have seen greatly affect corals in my experience. calc. and other params not so much. Start feeding two or three times not over feeding but feed till your fish start to leave some behind then stop wait a few more hours feed the same amount and same for the third feeding. Your corals will appreciate that. If you can do all this I think your situation will improve in the coming weeks. Good luck with everything
Danny

 

[jimrawr]

Jim in my experience with sps and lps color I see you have changed your lights. First thing I would
1. check for pest.
2. I have grown very colorful sps with po4 reading above recommended levels
3. Same with nitrates.
4. With new lights I always turn my light cycle back. if I am running for 6 hours total I will cut back to 1 hr and add 30min to my timer each day I have noticed this helps corals color up at a much faster rate if they are new or been dipped or new bulbs have been put in.
5. I would get rid of anything you are dosing and just do a water change every week with a good reef salt. I you can do with out all the additives for a few weeks that will also help you eliminate possible causes. So go back to basics your tank doesnt look very new. So you have good lighting check for pest keep your skimmer going if your chetto is not growing you have nothing to feed it or its being burnt by light raise it up or cut back the cycle alk is something that I have seen greatly affect corals in my experience. calc. and other params not so much. Start feeding two or three times not over feeding but feed till your fish start to leave some behind then stop wait a few more hours feed the same amount and same for the third feeding. Your corals will appreciate that. If you can do all this I think your situation will improve in the coming weeks. Good luck with everything
Danny

Danny thanks for this post. I have checked for pests and do not see any. I know how to spot redbugs having had them in the past, and I think if I had AEFW these acros would be long dead. The lighting above my chaetomorpha is probably about 12-16 inches above where the chaeto sits, so I dont think its being burnt, just a lack of nutrients for it.

I think I will take your advice and increase feedings. My gut tells me thats the problem not PO4. PO4 BTW last night was at .07, same day an acro RTN'd on me

 

[dzhuo]

Actually maybe this ties into why my RODI water is exhausting after 50 gallons or RODI made. I will replace the DI cartridge with brand new nuclear grade BRS resin, and after 50 gallons its totally orange and reading 002 tds. Can someone make a connection here that I dont know about? And yes, all my filters and membrane are very recently changed.

Jim,
It's pretty unfortunate that you have been having so much trouble with your tank and you done pretty much everything you can trying to fix them. I have commented this in your other thread but I think it's worth mentioning again.

There is something wrong with your water if your newly DI resin is exhausted after 50g. The problem with this type of issue is that using an exhausted DI resin is much worse than not using one. Here is a quote from Randy:

Several issues arise relating to the depletion of the DI resins that aquarists need to be aware of. Primary among these is that when a DI resin becomes depleted, that does not simply mean that the water passes through just as it came from the RO effluent. It may actually be much worse from an aquarist’s perspective. The reason for this is that while the DI resin is functioning properly, all ions will be caught. But when it is depleted, not only the new ions are coming through and might show up in the product water, but so are all the ions that ever got into the DI resin in the first place. The total concentration of ions coming out of the exhausted DI resin will not be raised as compared to the RO's effluent, but which ions are released may be very different.

So it's not just that lots of ions are being released from the DI, it's also hard to predict what chemical reactions are taking place and the end result of using water from it. Although a 2TDS or resin color (which really is just a pH indicator) does not necessary mean your DI has been exhausted, it's very possible it's.

I am not entirely sure why your resin would be exhausted this fast but 2 very common causes are CO2 and chloramine (which breaks down into ammonia) which would quickly exhaust your RO/DI's membrane. Without the membrane's protection, the DI resin would be quickly exhausted as well. Another possibility is if your water is very hard.

Would it be possible to ask your utility company for a report of the water in your area? Have you ever talked to BRS about this issue? If so, what they say?

Whether this is the cause of your problem, there is no way you will be able to sustain owning a tank with every 50g exhausting your RO/DI. You would have to spend way too much money just to maintain the RO/DI and buying resins.

 

[jimrawr]

Jim,
It's pretty unfortunate that you have been having so much trouble with your tank and you done pretty much everything you can trying to fix them. I have commented this in your other thread but I think it's worth mentioning again.

There is something wrong with your water if your newly DI resin is exhausted after 50g. The problem with this type of issue is that using an exhausted DI resin is much worse than not using one. Here is a quote from Randy:



So it's not just that lots of ions are being released from the DI, it's also hard to predict what chemical reactions are taking place and the end result of using water from it. Although a 2TDS or resin color (which really is just a pH indicator) does not necessary mean your DI has been exhausted, it's very possible it's.

I am not entirely sure why your resin would be exhausted this fast but 2 very common causes are CO2 and chloramine (which breaks down into ammonia) which would quickly exhaust your RO/DI's membrane. Without the membrane's protection, the DI resin would be quickly exhausted as well. Another possibility is if your water is very hard.

Would it be possible to ask your utility company for a report of the water in your area? Have you ever talked to BRS about this issue? If so, what they say?

Whether this is the cause of your problem, there is no way you will be able to sustain owning a tank with every 50g exhausting your RO/DI. You would have to spend way too much money just to maintain the RO/DI and buying resins.

Thanks for this post and the emotional support lol!! I am definitely going crazy with this tank for some reason though i dont know why. My previous 30g cube tank had much much more success, and I was a newbie reefer at the time using RO water from LFS, crappy equipment etc and my tank thrived SPS included. Oh yeah I never dosed anything on that tank and still had thriving sps. This tank I have put a lot more money/effort and I am more knowledgeable now, but I am having zero success with this tank.

I almost feel like its something in my well water causing this havoc for me. I do have a lot of rust in my well water, my sediment filters (the first one at least) are totally orange. Even though my RODI exhausts fast, I change it when I need to and buy in bulk so its really not all that expensive. Utility company wouldnt know whats in the water since its well water, I would need to have a test done.

We dont even drink our water from the tap because it smells, we have to run it through the refrigerator filter which is a carbon block, and then we can drink the water. I figured none of this matters if you have a RODI unit thats producing 0 TDS it should make a difference, but maybe in fact what is in the water does still make a difference.

I bought this house in 2008 so I may still have a water analysis around, going to take a look for that

 

[jimrawr]

Found my water test, can you make any sense of this?

 

[jimrawr]

pH was tested at 6.9 so thats likely the cause of the exhausting DI resin I believe, correct?

 

[dzhuo]

Unfortunately I can't make much sense out of this report and I don't think 6.9 is the problem of quick exhaustion. One thing I forget to mention that's a much better indication of whether your RO/DI's membrane is working or not is upstream pressure from sediment and carbon block. This will help you isolate whether your resin's exhaustion is caused by a mal-functioning membrane or just the DI. Does your RO/DI unit has a pressure gauge build in?

Other than that, I would suggest that you take the report to the Chemistry forum and see if Randy can help you figure anything out. It makes no sense to have your newly resin exhausted with 50g usage. My SpectraPure RO/DI unit had make more than ~500G and the resin is only about 20% exhausted (judging by the pH color code).

 

[dbraun15]

Your DI Resin is depleting due to the high Co2 concentrations normally found in well water. It is a pretty common and well known issue. CO2 being a gas is not dealt with by the RO membrane and so it chews up all your DI.

I have the same issue with my well and there is really only one cost effective way of dealing with it.

Run the water from your tap through thee sediment, carbon block, and RO chambers into a holding tub (Brute Trash can in my case). In that container place an airstone that aerates the water for a few hours, I let mine go overnight. At that point, using a small pump, transfer the water from that container through the DI chamber to a second container (another Brute can).

Once I put this in place, i went from getting 100 gallons per Di unit to about 1600 gallons before the resin is exhausted.

HTH

 

[sminker]

Im quite honestly shocked that you even need to dose any chemicals with your current SPS. Those frags should barely consume anything. Regular water changes should supply enough ALK and CAL.

 

[jimrawr]

Yea I will try degassing the RO water before running through the DI and see if that helps.

 

[jimrawr]

Ok wanted to revisit this thread as its been almost a month to give an update.

I went to Europe for 25 days, and in that time I had someone watching my tank and feeding daily one cube of either mysis/brine/blood worms. I didnt do a water change for a month, and when I returned my SPS definitely colored up pretty nicely to the point where I am satisfied with the colors. The only thing that changed was that, as previously stated I stopped running GFO, and I changed my light bulbs from Radiums to Ushios.

I am not happy with the color of the water now due to the Ushios being pretty yellow. So I switched back to the Radiums. If I see color loss then I will know it was the bulb, if I dont see color loss then I know it was too sterile water. It definitely wasn't the PO4 levels as some had suggested because now they are even higher yet sps colors are great. If it turns out being the lighting then I will probably end up changing over to a vertex LED system.

 

[cham]

Following for advice as well. I think my tank may be too clean too

 

[brob22]

my thoughts are the .1 phosphate is to high and could be the cause or the reflectors for the halides. not sure what ur using but it dusnt matter the watts of the bulb if the reflectors arnt good. in my experence and observation of other peoples tanks 300 plus par is ideal. and the last thing i noticed is ur using a huge skimmer for a small volume of water with the swc 180, this is proly y ur not getting much skimming. the neck is to big to build a foam head. swc 160 might be better

never mind the reflector rant, i just saw u using the archs, but the skimmer might be to much