SPS STN from bottom up

The pump in my system that seemed to be causing the problems was my newest pump. Only 5 mos old. Probably 2 mos of use. As soon as I removed it and threw some purigen in the filter sock I started to see changes. The next morning I saw a little algae build up where it used to.

Since this started have you noticed less diatoms or algae than before. My system acted as if I just wasn't feeding it even after a month of shoving food in.

I also head it can take quite a while to rebound from a carbon bacterial crash. It takes a while for system to right itself and not skim out everything. I did turn skimmer off for a week also. But I now see signs of a turn around. .
 
Starting to really see a correlation in leaking magnets and Stn. I did notice I was getting odd readouts of Mag and didn't know why. When looking at things this week I found some maricultured colonies with what appeared to be rust on the bottom of rock. I switched out alk of my pumps as this has been driving me crazy and I was willing to do anything to stop it. I am now starting to see improvement on some things. I did notice an increase in stray voltage in the tank also. But u have always had a small amount. It seems each device I plug in increases voltage by about 2. After everything is on I get about 15 to 19 volts. This never caused in issue before but right before I took everything out I was reading 30 volts. Which still wasn't enough to bite me.

We will see. But I believe the corroding magnets were also creating like there own Gfo since Gfo is pretty much rust and cleaning my water as I could not build phosphate no matter what with running 0 phosphate remover.

I added a couple maricultured colonies also with the same rust stains on the bottom. It is from the metal rack they use in the ocean. My problems also started a few weeks after. Did you do large water changes or fun any chemical media to remove rust in the tank?
 
Put in some purigen and Chem sorb. Maricultured rocks are out now. Would be a bad deal if they were leaking metals in the system. I think I'm gonna start removing all the bases on everything I bring in.
 
I initially had purigen, carbon, and GFO in the tank before and after the maricultured corals were put in. Before my Phophates hovered around .2-.04 but they soon dropped to 0. I removed all of the chemical filtration to eliminate those as issues. I just started to place carbon back in but will try the purigen as well.

Removing the bases is also good idea to eliminate eggs of pest. I had some AEFW hitch hike in from eggs but that was taken care of quickly.
 
He did say there was a little bit of oil on the surface of the water....

Hows everything looking as of today with all your corals?

Things seem to be getting better. i have cut the remaining STN lines from my red planet, and all of the large frags of it i made and epoxied to the mag rock are reencrusting the epoxy. i have the same situation with my garf bonsai. i could not cut away the battle lines from it b/c i could not remove the rock from the tank. (rock it's on is huge) The STN is still occuring along those same lines as before; however all the frags i made are reencrusting well. Sadly i have lost about 75% of this coral and may lose more if this persists. i plan on fraging the remaining large branches this week end.

List of the casualties:
4" mini colony of Hawkins (very sad on this definetly my favorite coral)
95% of my bali green slimer (not sure if the remaining piece is going to make it or not yet)
acro pink with blue tips forgot the name (this coral was about 5" across with multiple branches very pretty) 2nd favorite
75% of my ORA green planet
50% of my ORA red planet
75% of my garf bonsai
lost a copps king tut acro, but it was a frag so there wasn't much there to die.
Strawberry shortcake frag that was doing well and had encrusted about the size of a 50cent piece with atleast 1" of growth. This and the hawkins were the first to go.
Larry Jackson this was the largest colony i lost. It had it's own rock and was about 7-8 inches across with multiple branches. This is weird but about a year ago i was fragging this coral and dropped a frag, which ended up falling into a small hole in a rock that i couldn't get to so i left it there. Later on a small colony grewn from that area, and believe it or not but that colony has shown no ill effects. This small colony is only inches away from where my large mother colony has died. Try explaining this one. lol
90% of my tricolor valadia, but the only remaining frag is reencrusting. Very sad i'm left with a 1" frag.

Corals not affected:
Deep water acro don't remember the name.
Lost some tissue from my millis, but not enough to put into the prior category, and all appear to be on the mend.
Joe the coral lost a little encurstment but looks to be regaining that.
all montis, birdnest, setosa ,ofcourse LPS Sofites etc.. have been completely unaffected with normal growth.
Banana Lokani growth slowed but lost nothing.

Here are my thoughts:
After reading some threads on nutrients i think i may have my cause. About a 2 and a half months ago i traded in 3 large fish and replaced them with 2 much smaller ones. I think my corals might have been starving for awhile with the decrease in nutrients along with one of my light ballasts going bad. i never test for NO3 or PO4 unless i have issues as the test would normally come back the same results. (no3 1-2ppm and PO4 .05-.08ppm this is my sweet spot) I obviously don't know what my nitrate or phosphate was during that time frame but i do remember my ORP sensor giving my unusually high readings around that time. My ORP is normally between 350-390, but a few months ago i was reading 420 to 430. I have a lab grade probe which is only about 6mos old, and i had calibrated it around the time in question b/c i thought it might have been wrong but the readings after calibration were consistent. I didn't give it another thought b/c everything was doing fine at the time. This might have been a harbinger of things to come as i started seeing an issue with my corals about 2weeks after that. (i keep a really good log of tests or anything i do to my tank with dates and time included.)
Keep in mind this is pure theory on my part, but i got rid of 3 large fish, nutrients went way down corals starving so stopped growing. i notice a problem so i test no3 and po4. nitrate was good but phosphate was alittle high around .12, which prompted me to change phosphate media, dose vodka, and reduce feeding of frozen on the weekends in order to get my nutrients under control. This knee jerk reaction could have made things worse as i think i starved my already starving corals further. 2mos ago i was dosing 50ml of alk and 40ml of cal and had to dial the doser back to 35 and 25ml, b/c my levels were creapping up. i test ca and alk twice a week as a normal pratice so i have this in my log. i think around this time my corals stopped growing b/c they were starving, which prompted my ca and alk to rise as well as my po4. I am begining to subscribe to the theory that
SPS do need to feed and that lighting or in some circumstances fish poo may not be enough.

Here is what i have done since this issue started:
I cleaned my entire sump, all reactors, skimmer, return pump. (This resulted in a 25g water change. i did another 10g change this past weekend as well as my normal 5g twice a week regimen.
i reprogrammed my doser to spread dosing times out a little.
discontinued kalk (not sure if i'm gonna keep it this way old habits die hard)
Started feeding the fish more and the corals in particular over the last week. This is what i think has help more than anything else on this list. I increased my dosing of Seachem fuel by 50% a week and doubled the feeding of live phyto. i also bought 2 bags of live rotifers and fed one of them last saturday and the other last night. I finally checked my po4 last night after a week of heavy feeding only to find it much lower than i thought it would be. (.08) I will update this thread as the next weeks unfold.

Brent
 
Do you really do 5 gallon water changes every two weeks as part of your routine or did you mean 25?

Also if you wanna dose alk and ca in different amount i recommend switching to bulk reef supply or another two part bc bionic has more than just alk and ca going on in those two bottles and if not used correctly your acros will most certainly have problems. I only say this bc i did this. I was having ph swings from 7.99 to 8.3 daily and now its never below 8.17. I had perfect number as far as chemistry but acros would stn. And the thing is it didnt happen until the frags turned to mini colonies and the needs went up bout 6 months later. Now no issues besides mixing 25 gallons of rc every two weeks. I dont use gfo or carbon anymore, feed heavy and i have a small sump. Old school reefin
 
I have this book and the back 100 pages or so are the top tanks from around the world starting from small picos to huge ton tanks and most of them dont feed their corals ever, run two part and always say even with running gfo and carbon that they can never get their phosphates anywhere close to zero. So im very skeptical about acros and too clean of water. Usually i see my acans favias chalices looking skinny and receding when the tank gets low on nutrients while my acros have more color than ever. Add some aqua vitro fuel and they come out.
 
The nutrient issue will definitively cause some issues. I removed 5 fish and left my tank fallow for 6 weeks due to ich coming in on some large turbo snails. My corals started to go pale after a month and then STN followed. I started dumping in reef chili, coral frenzy, oyster feast, and frozen food every day with no change in N03 or P04.

I placed the fish back in after 6 weeks and have been feeding them heavily but recovery was slow. What helped the most was reducing my lighting. When the tank had higher nitrates and phosphates the SPS loved bright lighting but not so much when it went to 0. PE is finally coming back out after I removed my 250W 10K and replaced it with an old 15K. N03 is 2ppm and P04 at .04 I am only experiencing very slow STN on 3 pieces now and may frag them just to stop it right away.
 
Haha nvm i see now you do a twice a week wc...!? How come?

To tell you honestly this tank hates water changes of 10g or more done at one time. i'm not sure why this is but it is none the less so i do a 5g every wed and sunday takes like 5-10 mins no big deal.

i am going to take your advice and even up the bionic two part. i'll let you know what happens
 
Well my issues started again. About a week after re fragging everything. I was/am ready to shut everything down. So it came down to only one thing a pest. Since I had even tried to place some colonies in a buddies tank with same results. And his system grows sps really well. So last night I just sat there with the flashlight and lined up some mini colonies that were just starting to show signs of stn. What I saw amazed me. Little and I mean little worms biting at the edges of the coral. Right where it was receding. I took the colony out and dipped it in revive at a 4x strength and about 12 mins later the little punk came racing out with 2 of his buddies. It took another 10 minutes for him to stop moving and die. I posted pics and video in a post here on the sps forums. I don't know what to do about these things. The dip required to kill them will kill the coral. I have fragged what I could and tossed the lower portions. I also went and picked up a arrow crab to help the six line. Especially since the wrasse sleep and that's when they come out. I believe they are called bearded fire worms. They eat sps and gorgonians. Bad part is they can survive scraping by without coral to feed on. I believe this is why people who have removed all sps after something like this and then add them back after 6 months or so with perfect water quality and thriving tanks and still get stn/rtn. This also gives reason to why it seemed total random on which coral would go from 100% to 0 for no reason.

Take a look at my thread and try dipping a few that have this issue that you don't mind loosing and see what happens. These things are almost too small to see. This also solves how after I would frag a pice and put it on a new plug it would do great until it encrusted and gave the worm thin tissue to attack and when they randomly found it they killed it slowly until it just rtn'd from stress. Amazing part is since they don't have teeth and just lick c a hole the coral still maintains polyp extension. If I hadn't seen it with my own 2 eyes I wouldn't believe it.

I just hope someone else has found a way to eradicate them and can share there experience.
 
Can you post some pics?

Have you considered pests?

i would post pics but i only have an iphone and the pictures look horrible so useless. i have dipped all of the colonies that have had issues and nothing. i poured the remaining water through a coffee filter and then looked at that with my super magnifing jewelers glasses. This is using RPS All Out and bayer insect killer (mixed properly ofcourse) to dip them in two seperate times about 3days apart and still nothing.

Well my issues started again. About a week after re fragging everything. I was/am ready to shut everything down. So it came down to only one thing a pest. Since I had even tried to place some colonies in a buddies tank with same results. And his system grows sps really well. So last night I just sat there with the flashlight and lined up some mini colonies that were just starting to show signs of stn. What I saw amazed me. Little and I mean little worms biting at the edges of the coral. Right where it was receding. I took the colony out and dipped it in revive at a 4x strength and about 12 mins later the little punk came racing out with 2 of his buddies. It took another 10 minutes for him to stop moving and die. I posted pics and video in a post here on the sps forums. I don't know what to do about these things. The dip required to kill them will kill the coral. I have fragged what I could and tossed the lower portions. I also went and picked up a arrow crab to help the six line. Especially since the wrasse sleep and that's when they come out. I believe they are called bearded fire worms. They eat sps and gorgonians. Bad part is they can survive scraping by without coral to feed on. I believe this is why people who have removed all sps after something like this and then add them back after 6 months or so with perfect water quality and thriving tanks and still get stn/rtn. This also gives reason to why it seemed total random on which coral would go from 100% to 0 for no reason.

Take a look at my thread and try dipping a few that have this issue that you don't mind loosing and see what happens. These things are almost too small to see. This also solves how after I would frag a pice and put it on a new plug it would do great until it encrusted and gave the worm thin tissue to attack and when they randomly found it they killed it slowly until it just rtn'd from stress. Amazing part is since they don't have teeth and just lick c a hole the coral still maintains polyp extension. If I hadn't seen it with my own 2 eyes I wouldn't believe it.

I just hope someone else has found a way to eradicate them and can share there experience.

i saw your thread and was looking last night with my red light and nothing. I didn't think i had a pest as i have not added any maricultured or wild colonies ever in this tank. the only thing i fool with now is aquacultured frags. i will keep looking though you never know. the one thing you said that got me was how your corals still have great or normal PE in the non affected areas, which is my story exactly.
 
i just want to thank you guys for all of the suggestions it's been a help even though my problem still exists.

last night i made a last ditch effort to save what's left of my bonsai. i took my dremel out and cut into the rock my bonsai is on to remove what good area is left. once i had it seperated from the rock i cut off about 1/8 of an inch of good skin all around the piece, which would have given me about 1/4" from the original line of recession. Man i am going to be really bummed if i lose my bonsai, it is really beautiful and i have lost so much so far. really depressing.
 
How about some pics from happier times. These pictures were taken 3mos ago. Before you ask i had a friend from my reef club who is pretty good with a camera takes these shots.
red planet

bonsai.

a couple acans cause they are my favorite pics of them

 
Noticed you run carbon. I removed it on one of my tanks and the STN on all corals stopped. The other I left the carbon and it continued. I suggest removing all chemical filtration and go back to water changes and skimming. Feeding the fish more instead of trying to feed coral food has helped. I also lowered ALK to 7.3dkh with better results than the other tank at 8.5dkh
 
Bud try dipping again a piece you don't mind loosing that's currently stn'ing. Run revive at 3 to 4 times normal strength and let it go 12 to 15 mins. Our stories are so much alike. I thought I found the issue several times. Finally tracked it down and am 100% positive it is a little tiny worm that looks like a baby bristle worm. But under magnification you will see what looks like tentacles coming off its head with 2 little black eye looking things. Worm is half light tan and the back half is a darker orange. I have now talked to several people with the same issue who ended up shutting down there tanks. But all remember seeing this odd worm sometimes referred to as a scary worm. Tidal Gardens has a video about dipping and it shows a large version of this guy come wiggling right out of a coral and he then talks about thing like this causing people to shut down tanks. Look at my thread labeled another pest here on the forum. I am not saying I guarantee this is your issue but after putting all my corals on ceramic frag plugs and drying where the glue can stick to the side of the coral and then making the glue very smooth with no hiding places so that my arrow crab, six line wrasse and choris wrasse can get to new worms everything has started to make a comeback. Tonight I had the best PE I have ever seen. I do not feed fish or crab but they are getting fat and it ain't from pods as I recently dosed interceptor thinking I may have had a red bug issue I just couldn't see. I also put in a new frag rack with no worm casings. I have noticed arrow crap sitting between the rocks and rack eating something off the bottom of tank. He then scans the entire bottom of frag rack.

Give it a try on a couple pieces what do you have to loose a this point .
 
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