Stand Top Not Flat

Honestly I wasn't looking for fast or cheap...

But if anyone saw my build thread, after waiting weeks my custom built tank got canceled-manufacturer closed-mind you I was notified until I actually went to pick it up. Other quotes were hundreds of dollars more than the original.

I have my lfs guy order me a standard 75 so I can just do the overflows myself. Last thing I ask when I walk out the door is, "this isn't tempered right?"...."nope drill it anywhere you want." I unbox it at home and see a big Tempered Glass-Do Not Drill sticker on the bottom.

Also return pump is back ordered, this is week #2.
 
Perfect example, I bought top grade pine 1x4 yesterday at about $1lf for the frame. I assembled a few pieces a bit ago and was "*&^*&%$^%."

One piece was 1/8" taller. Rechecked the measurements, everything was square....



There is an 1/8" difference in width in this top shelf lumber!
 
Phisher said:
Perfect example, I bought top grade pine 1x4 yesterday at about $1lf for the frame. I assembled a few pieces a bit ago and was "*&^*&%$^%."

One piece was 1/8" taller. Rechecked the measurements, everything was square....



There is an 1/8" difference in width in this top shelf lumber!
Click to expand...

You have certainly had your share of trouble along the way, if it is any consolation, most of us have.

This pic is an excellent example of where a jointer would be your best friend. They are costly unfortunately. Have you considered building the entire stand out of 3/4" hard wood plywood? This is more than strong enough, and you "only" have to cut straight lines, and keep everything square. Screws and glue. Well it is something to think about anyway....

Jim
 
I had considered it actually. For some reason lumber choices here are terrible, I bet I dug through 30 sheets of oak ply to find one that wasn't knotted and scarred just to skin the front and sides.

And honestly, I don't know how well I trust myself with cuts that straight over a 4' span through oak. I imagine an "oops" is pretty unforgiving.

I am trying a different approach this time. Instead of making a top and bottom then joining them via vertical supports I am making a front, back and 2 sides and joining them. In my head at least, it should be easier to keep everything square and flat.
 
Phisher said:
I had considered it actually. For some reason lumber choices here are terrible, I bet I dug through 30 sheets of oak ply to find one that wasn't knotted and scarred just to skin the front and sides.

And honestly, I don't know how well I trust myself with cuts that straight over a 4' span through oak. I imagine an "oops" is pretty unforgiving.

I am trying a different approach this time. Instead of making a top and bottom then joining them via vertical supports I am making a front, back and 2 sides and joining them. In my head at least, it should be easier to keep everything square and flat.
Click to expand...

Cutting plywood is where a table saw comes in handy:lol:
A 6' straight edge, clamped to the plywood, as a guide for a circular saw (worm drive *skill saw* preferred), a sharp blade, and let the blade do the work (don't force the saw through) will give you a cut that will be straight. If you measure accurately and precisely, the pieces will be square, and equal. You can use this edge to line up the top rim and get the ends (corners) on the same plane, if you really want to use the lumber.

Attach the lumber to the plywood, making sure the "hump" is down, (though the straight edge and sand paper can be used to flatten the top edge, before assembly), and the ends line up with the plywood. The length of the verticals can be adjusted to allow for the differing widths of the top rim lumber. All things being equal, save the length of the verticals, you will end up with all four corners on the same plane.

Jim
 
I see you have a router. Just flush up one side and then take the router and use a flush trim bit to make them even. It will be a good workaround.

Even if you switch to plywood make your cuts 1/8" strong and use a strait edge and strait bit to make a perfect square cut. Always use 1/2" shanks when possible to eliminate chatter.

I am sure I am missing something.
 
cannarella said:
I see you have a router. Just flush up one side and then take the router and use a flush trim bit to make them even. It will be a good workaround.

Even if you switch to plywood make your cuts 1/8" strong and use a strait edge and strait bit to make a perfect square cut. Always use 1/2" shanks when possible to eliminate chatter.

I am sure I am missing something.
Click to expand...

Yea I had that clamped together for routing when I decided to take the picture.
 
Phisher

"The gaps between the plywood and tank are very narrow, with the tank empty I can slide a piece of standard weight paper through them with some resistance. If I put weight in the tank they all but go away."

It sounds to me like it would have been fine.

I forgot who posted it, but for a glass tank, they stated that the tank manufacturer said that all that matters was that the tank was supported in the four corners with a PLANAR surface and no high spots.

I find it hard to believe that ALL of us out there have a tank that does NOT have the case where we "can slide a piece of standard weight paper through them with some resistance."

Since you bought a standard 75 Gal, did you consider just buying the stand to go with it? My AGA warranty stated that it was only valid with their stand.

Stu
 
if you build the oak plywood box first and then trim with oak it will hide any woopsys .i have also seen the differing widths of wood even in the higher grades of wood as you found out . it doesnt sound like your tank build has been fun but dont give in and the end result will erase all the pain and agony . good luck also
 
I see no reason why you cannot shim the top of the stand (under side) if that will make it level and flat. The problem is that if the wood is warped you may get if it level from corner to corner but have dips or valleys in the middle. Get it level first and then work on the flat issue. Sand the high spots and fill the low ones with Water Putty (cheap and available at any hardware store). The stuff is sandable, paintable and sets up like concrete. I built my stand just as I described. It is dead on level and flat.

I don't think it is advisable to put foam under tanks that have a recessed bottom. Whether or not they are rimless is immaterial. My tank is rimless and has a recessed bottom, some have a flat bottom.
 
stugray said:
Phisher

"The gaps between the plywood and tank are very narrow, with the tank empty I can slide a piece of standard weight paper through them with some resistance. If I put weight in the tank they all but go away."

It sounds to me like it would have been fine.

I forgot who posted it, but for a glass tank, they stated that the tank manufacturer said that all that matters was that the tank was supported in the four corners with a PLANAR surface and no high spots.

I find it hard to believe that ALL of us out there have a tank that does NOT have the case where we "can slide a piece of standard weight paper through them with some resistance."

Since you bought a standard 75 Gal, did you consider just buying the stand to go with it? My AGA warranty stated that it was only valid with their stand.

Stu
Click to expand...

Hindsight I wish I would have bought a cheap, premade wood stand and skinned and trimmed it to look nice. I went back and forth on whether to proceed or start over and I just don't think I would have slept well worrying about the tank leaking if the shimmed corner sagged or something.

I also agree that there are too many to mention set ups out there that are gaped, warped or unlevel that never fail. I actually had a 75 leak (on a factory stand) and ruin $$$ in hardwood floor, carpet and baseboards so I may be a bit over cautious now.
 
iamwrasseman said:
if you build the oak plywood box first and then trim with oak it will hide any woopsys .i have also seen the differing widths of wood even in the higher grades of wood as you found out . it doesnt sound like your tank build has been fun but dont give in and the end result will erase all the pain and agony . good luck also
Click to expand...


Thanks wrasseman, the new build is coming along good so far. I will post some pictures tomorrow.

I really did almost throw in the towel on this a few times, but honestly I am in too deep at this point :crazy1:. I just needed to walk away from it for a few days.
 
Phisher

"I really did almost throw in the towel on this a few times, but honestly I am in too deep at this point . I just needed to walk away from it for a few days. "

HEY! I have a GREAT other hobby for you then.... Vintage Car Racing!!!

My brother told me it was cheap & easy :uzi:


:furious:



Just hang in there!!
 
Ok progress right?







Pocket screwed and routed flush all the seems, this baby is straight as an arrow. Problem resolved right?

WRONG!!!:blown:





Gap in the same spot, so I flipped the tank over to find.


Across the brace in the center, imagine this in a plywood top!


Here is the corner that wasn't making contact.


Worse shot of it but you can definitely see the daylight!

So the bottom of the tank isn't flat...nice. I put it on the new stand and clamped the corners down and the tank will pull flat, I filled it about 3/4 full of water and it got better but not flat.

So anyway, LFS gets new shipments in on Thursdays and its too late to get the new tank out for tomorrow so it will be next Thursday before I get the replacement and cross my fingers its good.

If anyone still has doubts to whether this build is cursed/hexed/jinxed/doomed please check them at the door. Anyone want to buy NIB equipment for a 75?:fun2:
 
when i put up a tank it often has a bit of a "rock"to it and once its full of water it is gone . thease are factory made cheapie stands and perfecto tanks and they will conform . i actually lost a job because a customer went with a cheapie stand for a 210 gal tank because the manufacturer would not warranty the tank unless it was on their stand .needless to say their stand was junk , lol .
 
I know it is a little late for you but.... When building anything that needs to be straight with 2X lumber, I always cut 1/2" long and then run trough my table saw on both edges. Just make sure that if the material has a bow, that the bow out gets cut down first. This won't take care of any bow or warping of the fronts but it does square it up.

When a 2X4 is cut, it is cut green, or somewhat green. then they dry out and shrink. This is why a 2X4 is not truly 2" by 4". This is why they can be of different heights and thicknesses.

I also use the big squeeze clamps to make flush and remove any twisting.
 
Its funny anytime anybody talk about putting foam under a tank EVERYONE automatically thinks its to support the bottom of the tank...Like for an acrylic tank... I used foam around the rim..not under the glass and it works flawlessly. I had the exact same issue. I used high density window seal foam not styrofoam.
 
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