Still at my wit's end - 3 mos. later -- would you start over?

contaminent in the rocks/substrate
Click to expand...

My gut tells me this is the problem, and I have no way to fix it except start over. I keep hoping the problem will work itself out -- a definition of insanity, I think -- repeating the same thing and hoping for a different result.

I'm thinking of just sticking with the corals I have, and concentrating on more fish.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Safe travel.
 
thanks kindly, my friend... and perhaps we can chat and see pics/this tank during the IMAC marine conference (in Chicago next June)? I'd be delighted to if time allows for us both :)

Anthony
 
Dag,
I had the same problem as you a while back and might have even posted on one of your threads. The tank I have that had this problem was the 36 gallon bowfront. Everything I put into it would die within days if not weeks. Mushrooms would wither up and puke guts everywhere. Nothing would live. To make a long story short, I replaced the sand bed, 'removed the skimmer', and let the tank run for about a month to two months this way. After a month I filled a clear sandwich bag from one of my other tanks full of some grape calurpa algae and poked holes in it then sank it in the tank to observe it and see if it would grow. To my surprise it did and I felt more comfortable with sticking corals in there. Now the tank has SPS, Monti caps etc, all thriving. My suggestion to you would be to remove the skimmer for a month, increase the flow, stick some calurpa algae in a sandwich bag and wait to see what happens in about a month. I would say to remove the sandbed but I don't think that sounds like the problem. What was happening with my tank is that the skimmer was just stripping the water column and nothing could live. Hope this helps, good luck.
 
scotty1234 said:
Dag,
I had the same problem as you a while back and might have even posted on one of your threads. The tank I have that had this problem was the 36 gallon bowfront. Everything I put into it would die within days if not weeks. Mushrooms would wither up and puke guts everywhere. Nothing would live. To make a long story short, I replaced the sand bed, 'removed the skimmer', and let the tank run for about a month to two months this way. After a month I filled a clear sandwich bag from one of my other tanks full of some grape calurpa algae and poked holes in it then sank it in the tank to observe it and see if it would grow. To my surprise it did and I felt more comfortable with sticking corals in there. Now the tank has SPS, Monti caps etc, all thriving. My suggestion to you would be to remove the skimmer for a month, increase the flow, stick some calurpa algae in a sandwich bag and wait to see what happens in about a month. I would say to remove the sandbed but I don't think that sounds like the problem. What was happening with my tank is that the skimmer was just stripping the water column and nothing could live. Hope this helps, good luck.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I usually don't chime in this way - but I do not believe the skimmer can strip the water to the extent things die off like this if other basic husbandry is anyway near normal.
 
I tried both and have run the tank 'skimmerless' since I removed the skimmer and have had no problems. I tried all the recommendations like, testing for copper, ro/di, more water changes, testing for everything known to man, checking the tank for current, running a ground probe when it wasn't needed, dosing the tank with junk that wasn't needed and none of it worked and someone commented to remove the skimmer for awhile and see what happens. Since this was the only thing I hadn't tried and the one thing that wasn't recomended to me previously by the pro-skimmer crowd why not give it a try. After about a month I placed the calurpa bag in there and watched it grow. Then I started to add corals. I guess if I would have recommended O2 or something it would have been met with less resistance. lol. This was my personal experience of what worked for me, just trying to help, do with it what you will.
 
I understand your point - the thing is that if you took a poll of the best reef techicians 99.99% of them I am betting would conclude that the skimmer would not (NOT) strip like this. Understand I am not being auguementative - I only really feel strongly that something else brought back your success instead of unplugging your skimmer so that you might rethink what caused your success - maybe your tank balanced out key parmeters on its own during this critical time - it happens e.g. maybe some additives overdosed finally diluted away, etc. When you testede for everything known to man - did you get a nitrate reading or was it 0.
Anyway - if this is moot at this point you don't have ta respond - I am glad your tank is back on track - did you ever restart your skimmer?



scotty1234 said:
I tried both and have run the tank 'skimmerless' since I removed the skimmer and have had no problems. I tried all the recommendations like, testing for copper, ro/di, more water changes, testing for everything known to man, checking the tank for current, running a ground probe when it wasn't needed, dosing the tank with junk that wasn't needed and none of it worked and someone commented to remove the skimmer for awhile and see what happens. Since this was the only thing I hadn't tried and the one thing that wasn't recomended to me previously by the pro-skimmer crowd why not give it a try. After about a month I placed the calurpa bag in there and watched it grow. Then I started to add corals. I guess if I would have recommended O2 or something it would have been met with less resistance. lol. This was my personal experience of what worked for me, just trying to help, do with it what you will.
Click to expand...
 
Anthony,

Patience has not rewarded me with success. Hard corals still die, including montis.

I'm thinking of pulling out my sandbed from the main tank (maybe it was just a bad batch of sand or it got contaminated). I believe you favor DSB's in the main tank. Do you think this would be a terrible mistake? Lots of people are reporting success with barebottom tanks.
 
the cycle of bare-bottomed to sand bottom to bare bottom and back again has happend for years, with aquarists reacting/knee-jerking to the last/latest in favor of the next.

I cannot state my position(s) any more clearly my friend :(

If going to bare bottom will give you peace of mind and reduce variables... it is my sincere recommendation that you do so.

best of luck and life
 
I want results, not peace of mind. After spending a small fortune on the "right" equipment (big flow, strong MH light, calcuim, RO/DI, Euroreef skimmer, etc.) and countless hours of learning, I'm reluctant to settle for just mediocre. My choices are:

1. Do nothing.
2. Do something.

Granted nothing is oftentimes better than something, and I've basically gone with that approach nearly 2 years hoping things would improve.

The losses are too persistent and pervasive to be attributed to pests or diseases, and they're also uneven. After numerous testings, by me and others, water quality does not seem to be an issue.

Numerous consultations with experts, experienced hobbyists, and field trips by LFS owners and professional maintenance folks, leave them all stumped and me.

What's left? Perhaps the sand is contaminated. I got it from ESV. there's 6" in the main display and another six inches in the refugium. My most recent consultant suggested removing 1/2 the sand is the display (on the theory that slow changes are better than dramatic changes) and see how things are then. But this seems to me to be an approach without a logical underpinning. As far as I can tell, no one advocates a 3" sandbed.

I could move the sand to a remote DSB, but I understand the view that a remote DSB does not work.

I need a brilliant insight.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading and caring.

Aryeh
 
Anthony,

Do you it's possible that sand can be too fine? The sand from ESV is very fine. Maybe the silt from the sand kills the hard corals.

Aryeh
 
Dag,
You should take everything out of the tank, throw away the sand and start over. After the sand is out clean the tank thoroughly and restock it either using new sand or no sand if you go the bb approach. I had a similar experience with a tank that was doomed from the get go. Nothing would live, not even mushrooms. I put them in, then days later they would shrivel up and die. Now the tank is a reef tank with many different species of corals that seem to be doing great. Sometimes it's easier to just start over. Try and stay away from the softies that like to have chemical warfare with ech other as well. It only adds one more variable to the list of things to check if something goes awry. Just keep digging and you'll find the answer eventually. I would definitely throw away the sand and start over though. Probably not what you wanted to hear but maybe the best thing to do in you're situation.
 
Fine sand is no trouble at all. In fact... I've grown stonies in tanks with the ESV sand source for over ten years. Sugar fine oolitic sand is my favorite substrate overall. I see no trouble with it here.
 
indeed, most errantiate polychaetes like the so-called "bristleworms" are harmless if not helpful.

But there are exceptions. The Caribbean fireworm gets a bit too large and/or leans too carnivorous to be considered wholly useful/safe for reef aquariums IMO.

How long is this worm of yours?

Do check with Humman's ID book or my Reef Invertebrates book if handy to see more info/images on such worms. Lots of places online I am sure too.

kindly, Anthony
 
Anthony,

I thought you might be interested in the next chapter of this story.

I removed the 6" ESV sandbed in June, 2005. It had no smell, and was full of worms.

I have now kept several SPS frags and colonies for more than 3 mos, which is much better than before. No stunning growth, and some losses, but at least the SPS seems to be living. It's progress!

I think my sand must have been contaminated somehow.
 
Some recent pics:

Small_Front.jpg


Another_front_view_small.jpg


Small_SPS_Frags.jpg
 
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