STN/RTN help required..

[Dr. Reef]

Hi
i am not new at this hobby, been around for over 12 yrs. but i started a new bigger tank 6 months ago (240+65sump) from an established 120gal(more than 7yrs old).
I have 6 x AI Sol Blue on tank for light. White set at 50% Blue 75 and RB 10 with a ramp up time of 3 hrs. lights come on at 12pm ramp upto above number by 3pm then stay at that rate till 10pm and goto 0 over 2 hrs till 12am. Lights are 70 degree lens 8-10" above water line.
Tank has 120lbs of dry rock and 2" dry sand.
livestock is 3 different tangs 2 clowns and a cardinal fish along with a school of 14 ignitus anthais.
i have an automatic water changer (genesis renew) that does 1% wc daily.
i use red sea coral pro salt mix.
i am running 2x BRS Carbon filters and 3x GFO BRS filters.24/7.
paramater are as follow:

salinity: 35 (1.026) dead on all the time (refractometer, RKE Salinity probe)
temp 79.4-80.4 (1.5hp commercial chiller) dead on in that range.(apex graph)
Ammonia,nitrites=0 (API Kits)
Nitrates=0 (sulfur denitrator) (API)
Phos=0 (3x BRS GFO Filters, 2x Carbon filters) (HANNA Checker)
Cal=420-440 (Reef octopus Dual Chamber Cal reactor) (salifert,API,Red Sea and Hanna checker all show just about in range)
Alk=10-11dkh (cal reactor maintained)(Hanna Checker)
Mag=1350(salifert)

Everything seems to be in order. I feed PE mysis 4 times a day mixed with dry Cyclop-Eeze and coral frenzy with liquid galric. I also have Roti fiest at night after lights off and arctipods on automatic dispenser.

Acclimation process consists of temp acclimation then 15 min coralrx dip then 15 min revive dip and then low to mid point in DT with lights at 30%.

The problem i am facing is that i have few softies (mushroom,zoa) they seem to do just fine some are even growing in numbers.
SPS are the problems. i got 25 coral frags of different SPS and i lost 8 the first few hours of putting them in DT. 8 lost were are purple color.Tissue started tearing off and white bleaching coral skeleton exposed.
Rest took a while and died same way.
then i got 6-8" established colonies of green Acros from online vendor(sponsor at RC). one of the green acro is doing fine (so far 1 week) second went colorless after 2 days then few days later started bleaching (skin tearing) from base up. i took it out and dipped it coralrx and revive for 15 min each and saw few amphipods come out no other pests or worms.
I dont understand why all my SPS after few days/week start to STN and they all stay colorless (brown) after first day or so till they bleach out.
I also cannot keep clams alive either, they survive few weeks then suddenly with no sign dead.
anything blue or purple dont last very long.

for the flow: i am running 4300gph out of 4 sea swilrs (about 3000gph after headloss) closed loop (2000gph) 2 korillia mag 8 (3200 x2) so a total of
11400gph in flow (47.5 times the volume)
Can some experts help me out.
thanks
mike

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Your alk seems pretty high for a ulns.. Might want to lower it around 7-8.5

 

[Reefer1225]

Parameters look to be in check. The dip acclimation with Coral RX and Revive for 15 minutes each might stress the coral in my opinion. 30 minutes total in two different dipping solutions is rough. I only do 5-10 minutes in either Coral Rx or Bayer.

Did you get all 25 frags at the same time? Was it all from same source? Good luck, hopefully more experienced peeps will chime in.

 

[Dr. Reef]

so i have heard for ULNS alk needs to be 7-8.5dkh how true is that? can that be a problem here?
Also what about running 2 BRS Filters of Carbon? some places i have read NOT to use carbon.
Any more ideas guys. i really want to keep Acros.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Did you get all 25 frags at the same time? Was it all from same source? Good luck, hopefully more experienced peeps will chime in.

yes i got all 25 from same source same time.
I also tried few other sources online in few other frags and some local frags as well with all same results.
now i am left with 1 green Acro colony about 6" tall by 4" wide that seems to be doing ok for last 1 week i have had it, colors are bright green and PE is there.
Second Green Acro i got at the same time STN over time but stopped yesterday after the coral dip. i will check its progress over time but does not look hopeful.

 

[Reefer1225]

Well, for them to RTN that fast within hours or days of putting them in your tank, my first guess was water quality, but when you listed your parameters, it seemed like they are in range. I trust Salifert and Hanna, and use the same test kits as you. I also have 4 AI Sol Blues over my 90, and your lighting at those levels aren't that intense to cause bleaching. I peak at 85W 90B 90RB (but slowly got to that point after 1 year).

Buying that many frags at once from the same source is risky in my opinion. So, I thought the problem derived from the source, but if you are buying from multiple places ands same result, then there is something off in your system.

The only thing I could think of is the either (1) Pests - check for AEFW or RB ... but I don't think they would die that fast with pests... usually lose color first and no polyp extension... then death... you say that it bleached and the tissue just came off? So, I am not sure. (2) Some sort of bacterial infection of the coral that spread?

Good luck. Hope you find the answer.

 

[rburns24]

The only thing you are using that caused the same thing to happen with some others(although not that fast) is the GFO. I would remove it for a while and see what happens. Good luck with finding out what is wrong.

I am running a ULNS and have had STN at an alk of 8dkh, but it was very slow-nothing like what you are experiencing.

 

[rburns24]

P.S. If your system is ULNS, and your alk is 10-11dkh, that would explain it all.

 

[Dr. Reef]

so far i gathered that in ULNS alk shoul dbe 7-8.5dkh.
is running carbon an issue? whatabout GFO like someone mentioned?

 

[bobssecrtsn]

People that was using zeo and those other ulns pruducts stated that having high alk caused stn on stony corals. In my opinion you should let your alk lower by itself and go from there. Patients is a virtue

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Depends on when you changed out your gfo. If you changed out your gfo about 3-4 months ago that shouldnt be a problem. But when you acclimated your corals and just recently changed it out. There is a possibility that your gfo is stripping out po4 quickly




edit::::::: using carbon shouldnt be an issue. If anything it should help remove toxins from the water

 

[Dr. Reef]

cool thats what i thought. carbon and gfo are 1 month old. i did not cut them off yet but reduced them to a steady drip rather than a flow. just for fun of it. alk i do agree might be the problem in ULNS. i am going to let it gradually drop over a week to 7-8dkh range.
thanks you everyone for helping out.
if there is other suggestions please feel free to post.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

well you dont want to change everything at once. if you do one by one then you will find the problem. but if you do everything at once and another pops up then you wont know what to change/do

 

[Dr. Reef]

excellent advice Bob. you are right, if i take everything out or cut them down i wont know what caused the problem to begin with. so i will leave the gfo and carbon running same way like before and just cut the use of cal reactor down a little everyday and over a week or so i will bring the alk down to 7-8 range and then maintain it there.
once i have the alk and cal in balance at 420 and 7-8 respectively, i will add a few frags and see what happens. if same result then will try cutting gfo out and trying it then carbon. hopefully from what i have understood is ALK being high in a ULNS.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

that sounds like a good plan! slow and steady wins the race! and remember to keep mag stable as well

 

[Dr. Reef]

thank u again Bob, i will follow the guidelines discussed earlier also keeping mag in check.

 

[tcmfish]

I'm no expert, but doesn't Red Sea Coral Pro salt have high alk? May want to test it if you think that is the issue.

 

[Dr. Reef]

it does mix at 12dkh but left alone after few days it drops to 7-8 range, i make 50-55 gal at a time and do 3gal per day water change. so first few water changes are high alk after that it drops in the bin from 12 to 8.
also if i keep my tank at 7.5dkh and replace 3 gal everyday with 12dkh it will only bring alk up by 0.09dkh and that number will drop everyday as alk drops in reservoir.
tcmfish you did bring up a good point though.

 

[mike r]

I'm no expert, but doesn't Red Sea Coral Pro salt have high alk? May want to test it if you think that is the issue.

red sea coral pro is a lil higher.

 

[Dr. Reef]

so guys do u think is ULNS with high alk also the reason for a dead clam and a dead anemone.