Stop and think about it......seriously!!

I'm a bit confused as to why people don't like MAP pricing. We can't afford to stock a lot of high end equipment yet, but it allows us to make a sale here and there and help our customers out. It takes all the guesswork out of trying to set profit margins and many of these items governed by MAP pricing have just 10-15% margins. That's not enough to cover the overhead, let alone make a deal. If you are looking for your LFS to sell below MAP pricing, you aren't helping them out in any way. Also to that point - the free shipping that you enjoy ordering from a warehouse - we eat it and it cuts into the small handful of peanuts the distributors throw us.

Understandably, since we have to order it'll take just as long to get your purchase and we understand why that costs sales but our customers are able to come pick our brains about our experiences with a product before ordering. If there is a problem, you know you can come get assistance. Unfortunately, less than half of the people who come in asking about lighting or other high end product order through us even after coming and taking time away from other customers and responsibilities - even with price matching. You wouldn't believe how many people come for advice, order online then come in for further assistance - and these issues are not unique to us - every LFS deals with it. Stop and think about it...

Thanks Mr Harvard
 
The way the hobby has progressed in the past few years is making it harder and harder for a local LFS to sell corals due to not only online sellers but more importantly from the guy that frags his corals from his personal tank fairly frequently. Where as a LFS or even most online sellers have to sell something like a Rasta Zoanthid for $20pp the average Joe is going to sell this same Zoanthid for only $10pp, or in some cases even less. ... Should we work out a deal with our local stores that we sell them our frags for an obvious discount so they can profit from it instead of with private sales?

To this point - it's a grey area. Technically we are required to buy only from wholesalers who are only allowed to buy from collectors and exporters. However there is also a growing trend of direct to retail importers that needs to be addressed as well, since most of these guys I"m familiar with are just shady. Technically, we are not even allowed to buy from JF or whomever's site to resell, which means if we want to offer LE corals, we have to acquire them somehow...

Most (pretty sure all) LFS do some trading - and no, that's not technically legit. Most will tell you correctly that it is illegal to pay a customer for frags or a fish that outgrew its home. This is a big factor in the comments I made in the other thread. Fortunately, I know of a couple legal channels where growers are offering proper wholesale channels on LE pieces. I know a few of you have seen jack-o-lantern Leptoseris frags at or around the $30 mark in LFS lately - that's half price what most online vendors offer and is a great example of the market catching up with demand. Now, how much do you think the grower earned on that piece after it went through two other hands to reach your tank? If you bring in a chunk of Rastas to trade, you are still likely doing better than the licensed aquaculturist selling wholesale through legal channels.
 
A lot of online retailers have started charging this, I'm assuming due to pressure from the states. Even Amazon does now.

They only started "collecting" sales tax because they opened a physical location within the state. Consequently by law they are required to collect sales tax to do business in the state of Florida. Same goes for Dr. Fosters and Smith due to Petco acquiring them, Petco having a physical presence within the state.

As far as Floridian consumers voluntarily paying sales tax on interstate purchases, I doubt one single politician who wrote the law is actually reporting it. As with most politicians, "Do as I say, not as I do." But, yes. It's coming. If they can get away with taxing rain you can bet they will close this door too, eventually. I suspect the only reason it hasn't passed sooner is because the lawmakers and their families enjoy sales tax free purchases on the Internet.

And just to say it before someone else does. I'm not against all taxes, just over taxation for wasteful spending. You know, like a few 100k to put a shrimp on a treadmill.

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This thread is spot on. I buy 99% of my stuff from a couple lfs. If they don't carry it ill order what I need on line. Absolutely nothing wrong with ordering on line, I figure I didn't get into this hobby to save money so I might as well support local when possible.
 
I'm gonna take a guess here, creative aquariums

You would be close, but now that I'm right up the road FAOIS is where I drop the most money and stop in at least once a week. Creative is just a bit further for me but I consider both of these stores top of the line!!
 
What's considers local.... My taste in equipment puts me atleast an hour and a half away from any store that would possibly Carry what I'm looking for. I did recently make a 3hr trip to top shelf and drop a good amount on some ecotech stuff.

I'm all for supporting stores that carry what I'm looking for. Keeping brands like ecotech, apex..etc is extremely expensive and I understand it's impossible for most stores to keep this stuff on their shelves, however I'm not willing to ever have a store order something for me and charge a higher price than what I can order it for myself. (MAP pricing in these cases helps the buyer for sure btw)
 
Unfortunately local stores do not carry most items I want. You ask and they don't want to mess with it so they leave us no choice. I would surely buy most things local if they were available. I don't want to buy something I don't want just because a local store owner chose the wrong brand to stock.

Now we have built relationships with online stores as well.

10 tons less drama shopping online. ;-)
 
I can understand and relate to where you guys are coming from. We can't expect our LFS to carry everyone's favorite brand or every piece of equipment but if your a regular and you ask several of these stores will either start carrying a brand or order it for you. Yes some things will have a mark up on it and may cost a bit more that I won't argue. For me paying a little extra a some items is worth it to me to ensure the local sores are always around. I can't imagine not having a LFS to be able to go visit when I have the time off just to browse around and discuss"tank talk" or to be able to pick up a thing or two. It would really suck if I had to order EVERY THING off line or when I had an "emergency" there were no place to run to and grab what i needed to quickly fix the problem. I think we have all become really spoiled having so many good stores in our area and that we don't appreciate or support them anymore. When you get a chance get on the forums and read the comets from the people in places where the closest store is 5 or more hours away. They make you realize what that would be like. I'm not saying I don't order anything of line because that wouldn't be true. What I am saying is at least think about what having a LFS still open and operating is worth to you. If you don't enjoy visiting them and you make EVERY purchase online then you wouldn't understand and this post is going to be meaningless to you.
 
What's considers local.... My taste in equipment puts me atleast an hour and a half away from any store that would possibly Carry what I'm looking for. I did recently make a 3hr trip to top shelf and drop a good amount on some ecotech stuff.

I'm all for supporting stores that carry what Im looking for. Stocking brands like ecotech, apex..etc is extremely expensive and I understand it's impossible for most stores to keep this on their shelves, however I'm not willing to ever have a store order something for me and charge a higher price than what I can order it for myself. (MAP pricing in these cases helps the buyer for sure btw)

I remember living back home and how bad that sucked having to drive an hour plus to get to a LFS. Since I moved to my ccurrent home (less than 10 minutes from 3 stores) i can't imagine being that far away again. I look forward to my days off to get to go check out what livestock they got in. The best part is when I tell my son were going and seeing how excited he gets. He's only 15 months old and when I ask him if he wants to go the the fish store he smiles so big and runs to the garage door like "let's go". For me this is priceless!!
 
I'm certinaly guilty of buying a lot online. I try and stop in as much as possible, but living 1.15 hrs away makes if difficult.

I stopped in a picked up a few things yesterday from a local store and you're right, it's nice to chat, check out the tanks ect. I'm going to make it a point to try and do it more often.
 
Another thing others have mentioned being a long way from stores. I am 45 minutes to an hour from anyone that would order at least some items I use. If they special order I have to drive there and swipe my credit card instead of taking my payment over the phone. To me these are stores running themselves out of business. You can only try so hard. I have been shopping in this area 15 years or more. If I am not a trusted enough customer by now to give a cc payment over the phone by now I never will be. Lol
 
I try to shop local as much as possible. But..... Let's face it, the retail business landscape has changed dramatically, it's not just the LFS. If the LFS as we know it, wants to survive long-term, then they seriously need to reevaluate their business model.
 
Resurrection. .........something we should all be reminded of more often....Go support your LFS!!

You're right if I have the similar LFS you go to. I used to live in Westchase 6 years ago and that's the place I go to for livestock,drygood,and all of my equipment but after moving to two different city after that I start to buy stuff online. I'm a average working guy and not rich like most of you are so I can't support them when their price is almost double the online price or more. You're lucky to have a good lfs close by, I have yet to find an lfs like that with healthy livestock and a reasonable price to support.
 
I'm as nostalgic as anyone, I still remember back in the 70's when my Dad would take my brothers and sister and I to the pet store, we loved it. And I still enjoy it today.

But the notion that somehow I am responsible for keeping the LFS in business by paying higher prices and being inconvenienced is crazy.

The selection, price and convenience online is too great to ignore.

I am sitting here looking at my 17 gallon SPS reef and here are the retailers that I purchased from.
  • Marine Depot
  • InTank
  • Gulf Live Rock
  • Amazon
  • Bulk Reef Supply
  • Auto Top Off.com
  • Reef Angel
  • Reef Cleaners.org
  • Blue Zoo Aquatics
  • Marine Warehouse

As you can see there is only a single LFS and that was only to pickup a few extra snails. I also purchased my Live Rock locally but the rest, other than Amazon are small to mid size retailers who have found success online in the Saltwater business and I am happy to support them. If the LFS want to survive it is up to them to change their business model, its not up to us to save them.
 
If Marine Warehouse is your LFS then I could see why you would think that online prices are cheaper.
I shop primarily at FAOIS and find that there prices are more than comparable to online retailers in most cases.
 
The other crazy thing is now the online monster amazon plans on having a fast delivery per drone and I believe it's within an hour ..that's less time then it takes to drive to most stores and less stress of us19 and fuel consumption.
http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8037720011
 
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I think another big issue is the variety of items you get can get online VS what you can get at an LFS. The market is exploding and we now have so many different companies that are making decent products that we are now getting a larger selection of stuff to choose from. Unfortunately it does not trickle down to the LFS has much unless its a special order that will be on the truck the next week.
 
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