Stop and think about it......seriously!!

[MrHarvard]

There are very few things in life I enjoy more than my reef tank and this hobby in general. I spend several hours each week looking at my tank, tinkering with my equipment, admiring my corals, and just enjoying the beauty of the work I put in. At night once my wife and son are in bed, I spend hours either searching for LE corals or expanding my knowledge about the hobby. On my days off, or when I have free time, I always stop by 1 if not more LFS in the area to see their livestock or pick up different odds and ends. I stop in one particular store at least once a week sometimes 3 or 4. I like this particular store because it's clean, organized, the owner and staff acknowledge me and are always helpful, and their livestock is always healthy. I know that they are honest when answering my questions about products (even if it costs them a sale) , and that they aren't going to push something that either doesn't work or isn't really necessary. If I have an issue they go out of their way to help me resolve it even if it doesn't require me making a purchase or in some cases letting me borrow equipment so I don't have to purchase it. The point I'm trying to make is I love the hobby and without a LFS it just wouldn't be the same. If you actually took the time to read through what I've written, and you enjoy/appreciate your favorite LFS like myself, then think about how bad it would suck if it closed! What if all our LFS closed? This could easily become a reality if the industry continues down the path that it's on. The majority of people now shop online rather than buying local and it's killing our local businesses. I get it, you buy online because the larger companies can sell items cheaper and save you money, but at what cost. Yes, you may save $5 here, $20 there, but what do you do now when you have a serious issue and there's no LFS to rush over to and grab what you need to resolve it? You need something ASAP or your going to have a large loss of livestock but there's no place local to go pick it up, what now? Your off work and have the day to yourself and you wanna go look at some corals and pick up something new for the tank, oh yeah can't do that either. You have seen the newest (insert piece of equipment here) online but you want to see it in person, pick it up, touch it, see it in action, nope can't do that now either. I guess you'll just have to watch another YouTube video and read the reviews. Don't get me wrong I order things online. I have a taste for rare LE acros and they simply aren't readily available and can't be found at most LFS. I totally understand that aspect of it but if at all possible I purchase all dry goods and basic necessities locally. By doing this I'm playing my part in ensuring they are going to still be in business the next time I wanna stop in. I apologize for the long post but I wanted everyone to STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT before they purchase there next piece of equipment online to save a few bucks, before you go ask the owner of your LFS a thousand questions about a new product and then turn around and purchase it online. If you have been in this hobby for any amount of time, then I'm sure you have a great story of how a LFS went out of there way to help save you from disaster. I hope everyone knows just how lucky we are to have the number of LFS that we do in our area and some really great ones at that. Well that's my P.S.A. I'm Done for now happy reefing!!

 

[CHizer]

We really are lucky here. Other than the occasional rare coral there aren't many reasons for us to order online. Prices at our LFS are often cheaper than online. Seeing the stuff in person makes all the difference for me.

 

[CrazyEyes]

I completely agree with you Anthony. There are several people I speak to in different states and even someone in France, and I can't tell you the number of times they'll ask where I order coral from, only to tell them I didn't. When you factor in not having to wait and not paying for shipping fees it really isn't cheaper to order online anyways. I know exactly what LFS you're talking about and I have to agree with you there, I once bought a bucket of salt, ended up not wanting it and they gave me almost all my money back in store credit. Then you have faois, John and his tank/sump manufacturer went out of their way to build me a replacement sump when Critical Tanking decided to blow me off, oh yeah and they built the replacement for free. Great post man.

 

[asmodyus]

There are very few things in life I enjoy more than my reef tank and this hobby in general. I spend several hours each week looking at my tank, tinkering with my equipment, admiring my corals, and just enjoying the beauty of the work I put in. At night once my wife and son are in bed, I spend hours either searching for LE corals or expanding my knowledge about the hobby. On my days off, or when I have free time, I always stop by 1 if not more LFS in the area to see their livestock or pick up different odds and ends. I stop in one particular store at least once a week sometimes 3 or 4. I like this particular store because it's clean, organized, the owner and staff acknowledge me and are always helpful, and their livestock is always healthy. I know that they are honest when answering my questions about products (even if it costs them a sale) , and that they aren't going to push something that either doesn't work or isn't really necessary. If I have an issue they go out of their way to help me resolve it even if it doesn't require me making a purchase or in some cases letting me borrow equipment so I don't have to purchase it. The point I'm trying to make is I love the hobby and without a LFS it just wouldn't be the same. If you actually took the time to read through what I've written, and you enjoy/appreciate your favorite LFS like myself, then think about how bad it would suck if it closed! What if all our LFS closed? This could easily become a reality if the industry continues down the path that it's on. The majority of people now shop online rather than buying local and it's killing our local businesses. I get it, you buy online because the larger companies can sell items cheaper and save you money, but at what cost. Yes, you may save $5 here, $20 there, but what do you do now when you have a serious issue and there's no LFS to rush over to and grab what you need to resolve it? You need something ASAP or your going to have a large loss of livestock but there's no place local to go pick it up, what now? Your off work and have the day to yourself and you wanna go look at some corals and pick up something new for the tank, oh yeah can't do that either. You have seen the newest (insert piece of equipment here) online but you want to see it in person, pick it up, touch it, see it in action, nope can't do that now either. I guess you'll just have to watch another YouTube video and read the reviews. Don't get me wrong I order things online. I have a taste for rare LE acros and they simply aren't readily available and can't be found at most LFS. I totally understand that aspect of it but if at all possible I purchase all dry goods and basic necessities locally. By doing this I'm playing my part in ensuring they are going to still be in business the next time I wanna stop in. I apologize for the long post but I wanted everyone to STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT before they purchase there next piece of equipment online to save a few bucks, before you go ask the owner of your LFS a thousand questions about a new product and then turn around and purchase it online. If you have been in this hobby for any amount of time, then I'm sure you have a great story of how a LFS went out of there way to help save you from disaster. I hope everyone knows just how lucky we are to have the number of LFS that we do in our area and some really great ones at that. Well that's my P.S.A. I'm Done for now happy reefing!!

You can only have the manufacturer to blame with there map pricing in my opinion. At first it was AMAZON or ebay just being cheaper but now because of map pricing no matter were you go that one Item is going to be the exact same price, no more competition, can't have sales on them, or give people 5% off just for buying more stuff from you. Better yet most places now have free shipping on larger purchases and no tax. Remember people are lazy and cheap and if you can buy x item for the exact same price anywhere what makes you wanna buy it from the LFS if you don't have to leave the door. We have become a society of convenience and not practicality well at least that what I think some of the reasons are Plus AMAZON really just kills anything that's not MAP pricing with there same day and next day delivery.

Thing is I am like you I love going to the LFS I'm there once a week buying stuff that I should not be buying ( like buying 3 Queen anthias and now trying to figure how to feed them 5 times a day) but that's me I am more of a hands on person. But I not going to lie if I need to buy an 800 dollar fixture and sure and hell will not be local because I know it going to be the exact same price online and I can save 7% which on 800 dollars is a lot of money to me especially in how crazy expensive this hobby can be.

 

[MrHarvard]

But I not going to lie if I need to buy an 800 dollar fixture and sure and hell will not be local because I know it going to be the exact same price online and I can save 7% which on 800 dollars is a lot of money to me especially in how crazy expensive this hobby can be.

This is the problem though, these stores need these sales as well to keep the doors open. I understand wanting/needing to save money but if we continue to do this we will no longer have a LFS. In your example of the $800 fixture you would save $56 buy ordering online, is this savings worth no longer having somewhere local to go shop? When all of our great LFS are gone you will lose all the money you saved when you start having to pay $30-$50 for every online livestock order you make, or have to wait until you can spend $200-$300 on a single order to get the free shipping. On top of that all the more common pieces that you can now pick up at the LFS, you will now be paying a premium for. This is what I wanted everyone to stop and think about. For me personally I'll buy local because I want to make sure I always have somewhere local to shop.

 

[clearwatereefer]

There is nothing better than running around town taking care of your errands or heading to another county and discovering a new store(New as in you never been there).It brings the kid out in me, like Xmas all over again.Before I moved here from NYC there wasn't a lot of lfs accept for like petland or petco which had nothing. So I strongly agree support our local shops and one day we will find that gem or center piece without have to lose it to stress do to shipping.

 

[Elo500]

My lfs are mostly livestock. They no longer carry items you can buy cheaper online.

 

[oldsaint]

This about sums it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8B1lZp0ULM

 

[risin]

+1 on support you LFS. Taking step back, I wasn't really saving money online. The only way it was cheaper than FAOIS was with free shipping. I would load up my cart with junk I didn't need to hit the free shipping... So much less stress just going to John's knowing he's not ripping me off, and just buying what I need. I'm not down playing other LFS, I just only get time to go out once a month or so and faois is where I go.

 

[ichthyman]

Since Doug was the bad guy in the other thread I'll be it here.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html

Florida law does require reporting online purchases and payment of the appropriate sales tax to the State. Not that anyone is doing such but it is the law. Eventually the Fl. Dept of Revenue will catch up with technology and escaping the payment of sales tax won't be possible.

 

[ichthyman]

Thank you Havard for making an excellent point. You are absolutely correct.

 

[Nwest]

Mr. Harvard you hit the nail on the head with this one.

So think of this, all the local fish stores close up, and then you get your new fancy $800 light and you cant figure something out and need help the odds of that online retailer answering your call to help is slim to know. Most of them, unless its a HUGE business are just a single guy selling stuff that's getting dropped shipped. Doesn't have any knowledge of the item or will be able to help you. Where as the lfs you can just go back bring it with and more than likely be there to help.

The funny thing is some, I know one specifically that will match most is not all prices that you see online. OR EVEN have BETTER pricing that online.

Don't get me wrong I am all for saving a buck when I can but sometimes it helps to support local business's because most of them are there to support you when you need it!

 

[Marksbucs]

I agree with you completely, I love making the rounds no matter what town the lfs is in. I stop by and always buy something. I like seeing and looking at my corals and fish always before I buy them. My problem is when in Brandon as well as South TPA (2 stores) the same people have worked there for years and I ALWAYS feel like I have to beg them to help me or make them take my hard earned cash that helps keep the doors open.....and if I ask a question they act like I'm bothering them while there talking to the other co-workers or on their cell phone texting.....I have found that the LFS 5-6 years ago would greet you ask if they can help or just let them know when I'm ready and they will get whatever I need? Faois I have never had this problem, they have always been very helpful, but it is so far from my house not really Local, and the other South TPA stores used to be like that always there to help with all my questions or just information......The LFS should in my opinion be just as greatful for you and me as we should be of them is my point...make me want to spend my money and my time in your store....just love the hobby as much as I do!!!! Sorry so long winded to get to my point.

 

[asmodyus]

Mr. Harvard you hit the nail on the head with this one.

So think of this, all the local fish stores close up, and then you get your new fancy $800 light and you cant figure something out and need help the odds of that online retailer answering your call to help is slim to know. Most of them, unless its a HUGE business are just a single guy selling stuff that's getting dropped shipped. Doesn't have any knowledge of the item or will be able to help you. Where as the lfs you can just go back bring it with and more than likely be there to help.

The funny thing is some, I know one specifically that will match most is not all prices that you see online. OR EVEN have BETTER pricing that online.

Don't get me wrong I am all for saving a buck when I can but sometimes it helps to support local business's because most of them are there to support you when you need it!

Your missing the point of what I am talking about because most manufacturer on larger ticket items now have map pricing (EcoTech Radion, Aqua Illumination, Kessil, Maxspect) LFS and online have to sell if for the exact same price has everywhere one else. So now its matter of convenience and why you want to buy the item form them vs not getting your butt off the couch. I was just talking to a buddy who owns an LFS and its killing competition. Yeah sure I know a guy from the back of a truck from china but I am not talking about them. You can go to BRS, or Marinedepot.com, or TBaquatics.com, or any other LFS and they will have the same item at the exact same price if they don't than they won't be selling them for long. Plus I buy all my food and and fish and coral LFS most of the time.


Tell you the truth I am more a used item person anyways because my budget is not large so that screws everybody anyways but the 3rd party seller.

 

[DingDong128]

Stop and think about it......seriously!!

"This about sums it up. "

Thanks for sharing oldsaint

Very interesting talk. But what is the answer? I don't mean this in the wrong way, but business is business is business. He's absolutely right that expertise has value. And that some, if not many people in this hobby fail to appreciate the LFS value. But those that nod along with this thread are probably already in the choir.

I will admit that I've bought expensive lights online for the free shipping and no taxes. And this thread has definitely made me rethink this. But I'm speculating that most hobbyists will continue to be like water and take the path of least resistance. It is human nature.

I guess in the end all we can do is buy with our own conscience. There are a few LFS in the greater Tampa Bay Area I certainly don't want to close. And being from Bradenton I've seen my share of that.

Kevin

 

[pugcrush]

The last few years, I'll admit I'm guilty of buying some stuff online. But we're blessed with some good stores with great prices on dry goods. Not to mention quality products. After a few years in the hobby, I quickly learned to buy once! So you're not really saving a buck by buying online. I've been to a few stores in the Orlando market & they've got a pretty mark-up from what I've seen. Even the price on salt during a sale seems crazy over there.

Sales tax is bound to change for online sales. The gov't is definitely ready to tap into that.

 

[narms72]

I totally agree. Like I just picked up a absolutely gorgeous V-tail grouper for only $26.99. I would have never found such a great specimen had I rolled the dice online and at that price? No way! I'd have to pay extra for divers den or collectors choice. I have and will always buy all live stock from a real LFS.

 

[MrHarvard]

I glad to hear that we all agree and we don't want our LFS to go out of business. Now it's time for us to do our part and support them. If you skimmed through this and decided to blow it off thinking this will never happen and these stores are making plenty of money, I hope you change your mind and realize this could easily become a reality. If anything I hope this thread at least she's some light on a topic that needed to be addressed. If we can all commit to shopping locally we not only ensure the store stay around, but we might also see a steadier flow of new livestock each week. Some of these owners may start bringing higher end corals in if they know the business will support it. Im sure knowing you have a loyal customer base makes purchasing higher end corals a lot easier.

 

[hoohoohdillyo]

Some of these owners may start bringing higher end corals in if they know the business will support it. Im sure knowing you have a loyal customer base makes purchasing higher end corals a lot easier.

Most of the local LFS will even order in rare or high end corals and fish if you request it. They might want a deposit or payment in full before hand, but if you trust your local store, then it's not hard to request even hard to find corals/fish and I'm sure they would be happy to find a beautiful specimen for anyone.

The way the hobby has progressed in the past few years is making it harder and harder for a local LFS to sell corals due to not only online sellers but more importantly from the guy that frags his corals from his personal tank fairly frequently. Where as a LFS or even most online sellers have to sell something like a Rasta Zoanthid for $20pp the average Joe is going to sell this same Zoanthid for only $10pp, or in some cases even less. I'm willing to bet that most of us in the hobby are guilty of either buying or selling like this to some degree so whats your thoughts on that part? Should we work out a deal with our local stores that we sell them our frags for an obvious discount so they can profit from it instead of with private sales? Maybe we could have a monthly frag auction at a LFS or two with something like 10-20% of each sale goes to the store for it's support? I don't see this being a thing where everyone would do this, but if you want to help support your LFS maybe something like that could help. If any of our LFS could chime in on if that would work or not.


Most of what is in my tank was bought used or built by myself, including the tank itself. My corals were mostly bought or traded from other local reefers. The only thing I have purchased from local LFS is salt and fish. This isn't because I don't want to support our local stores, but I don't have lots of money to buy brand new and I would have a very limited coral selection otherwise.

This is a great post and puts up some amazing points, this also brings up a point about shopping at all mom and pop type places instead of places like WalMart or Costco. Sadly in today's society nobody cares about anyone else, only about if they can save a quick buck with the least amount of work.

 

[anbosu]

Since Doug was the bad guy in the other thread I'll be it here.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html

Florida law does require reporting online purchases and payment of the appropriate sales tax to the State. Not that anyone is doing such but it is the law. Eventually the Fl. Dept of Revenue will catch up with technology and escaping the payment of sales tax won't be possible.

A lot of online retailers have started charging this, I'm assuming due to pressure from the states. Even Amazon does now.