Stop and think about it......seriously!!

[CuzzA]

Check out this kind of support from a manufacturer of dive products.

http://www.tilos.com/product/36-low-pressure-hose-for-first-and-second-stage/

Click on the "buy now" button and see what happens. That's the kind of support retailers need. And the retailers need to capitalize on it. Click on the "why" link for a description of what they're doing.

 

[Webmanny]

This is a very sad day for this hobby. I've been reading this thread for the past few days and I have to say that, if what most have written here is the overall feeling of the majority of the people in this hobby, trying to buy a fish out corals will soon become as depressing as trying to buy electronics locally has become.

Let's not confuse things here. I buy things online as well. However, my first stand, current tank, sump, most of my LPS corals, most of my Zoas, all my fish, my salt, live and base rock, RODI cartridges, fish food and all of my T5 bulbs. All, have been purchased locally at really good prices.

My skimmer, return pump, overflow box, Coral food and a couple of LPS corals, have been purchased online.

As you can see, most of my purchases have been made locally. Why? Because I don't want to these stores to disappear like the electronics stores I used to love have disappeared.

I want them to be around to help me if I ever run out of salt on a Saturday or if my T5 bulbs blow out and I need one right away or if I need to trade in some problematic fish for something that is more compatible with the rest of my fish.

I respect everyone's opinion and I expect you will do the same with mine. I'm just sharing my personal experience and preference and bringing some much needed balance to the conversation.

 

[CuzzA]

Rob and bronze I think you're right about the livestock. Big advantage for retailers.

I'll tell you one of my pet peeves when going to a LFS is lighting too and also the name game pricing. One earlier mentioned retailer in this thread is the place to go for zoas for example. They don't play the name game. They get them in, cut up 10 polyp half dollar frags and sell them straight up across the board for a great price. They push a ton of zoas and likely make a lot more money than trying to hack up one and two polyps on a frag plug and sell them at $20 per polyp that will likely melt away in a short time in your tank. I've learned that lesson with zoas. Minimum 5 polyps or I'm not buying it. Anyway, I digress.

I think we all agree we want our LFS's to succeed and to do that some things are going to have to change. It's also my understanding this is not a rapid growing hobby with new hobbyist knocking down doors to get in and some would say it's actually shrinking.

 

[robthorn]

Yeah Cuzza I try to make store owners my friend and make suggestions but they don't want to hear it. All I can say is I try. I obviously do not think I am an authority on anything but when what you have isn't working you have to do something. I have seen other top stores in the area go under for fear of change. The ones around now took them out with new products and ideas. Now they are being taken out too. Sucks but it is what is happening.

 

[forthereef]

In reality, comparing LDS (dive shops) to LFS is not a good comparison. I know they both serve a small niche clientele but that is where it ends.

First off, dive equipment manufacturers have protected their retailers. For example, up until recently, Aqualung prohibited online sales of their product. There is one of the larger online retailers of dive equipment that sells Aqualung products. Aqualung states on their website that products purchased from them will not be warrantied. Google "aqualung leisurepro" and you will see what I am referring to.

On the other hand, LFS have to purchase most product through distributors. The aquarium products manufacturers have jumped in bed with several online retailers. Selling them product at the same price, or in some cases better, than they sell to distributors.

Until the screwed up distribution channel in the pet industry is corrected, and I have no believe that it will be, LFS will not stand a chance.

 

[CuzzA]

In reality, comparing LDS (dive shops) to LFS is not a good comparison. I know they both serve a small niche clientele but that is where it ends.

First off, dive equipment manufacturers have protected their retailers. For example, up until recently, Aqualung prohibited online sales of their product. There is one of the larger online retailers of dive equipment that sells Aqualung products. Aqualung states on their website that products purchased from them will not be warrantied. Google "aqualung leisurepro" and you will see what I am referring to.

On the other hand, LFS have to purchase most product through distributors. The aquarium products manufacturers have jumped in bed with several online retailers. Selling them product at the same price, or in some cases better, than they sell to distributors.

Until the screwed up distribution channel in the pet industry is corrected, and I have no believe that it will be, LFS will not stand a chance.

I think you've completely misunderstood what I wrote and the points I was making in my earlier posts. In fact you're basically saying it's a bad comparison and then point out the differences of why the LDS has a better edge at curbing online retailers compared to the LFS. Which is precisely what I said. Two niche markets facing similar challenges yet one is being protected by the distributors and manufacturers while the other is not.

 

[forthereef]

No I did not misunderstand, here is your quote:

They run a similar business model that was suggested and it appears to be quite successful and I believe it curbs a lot of the "touch in store, then buy online" issues many retailers deal with. Many dive shops face the same issues as fish stores. I suppose it's just the nature of a niche hobby/sport.

There is no way a LFS can use that business model. They cannot purchase the product for the same price as the online retailer. Hence the customer thinks they are "getting ripped off". I'm sure you've noticed, since you are a diver and reefer, that the discounts on dive gear, when purchased online, are nowhere as deep as aquarium supplies. I don't think there is any industry that has as much of a price disparity between online and brick and mortar.

 

[CuzzA]

Nope, you're still misunderstanding. I stated MY LDS runs a similar business model as what was suggested in a thread on another board about fish stores. I can not link the the thread here because it is not allowed.

You are going to have to search the thread title and find it on your own to understand what I'm saying.

 

[TampaSnooker]

You guys are splitting hairs over a good point and a great discussion. We have a lot of gear on the shelves right now that was brought in for a big installation. People keep fawning over it, yet they have gone home and bought it online at the same price. These are $4-700 items that carry less than 10% profit margin. As I mentioned on p2, we are simply too new to stock these items on a regular basis with that much investment, so we have to either offer to special order (knowing the customer will likely order themselves to save a repeat trip and sales tax) or suggest that they order online (thus slitting our own throat and alienating a customer due to the perception of poor customer service).

It's not just dry goods. We have a handful of people that want ReefGen or ORA and know the products are available to browse on their sites but need to be special ordered. We happily oblige and bring the product in, only to find they change their mind once it's here. Fact is that over 3/4 of the people that request special orders never show back up to purchase it. I am absolutely NOT mentioning this to gripe. Rather, I am putting it out there to continue the discussion. What is it that you, the consumer want? Let's keep it within reason as the current brick and mortar LFS model cannot succeed in this climate yet most of us are adamant that it is needed.

I missed this link the first time through the thread, so I am going to repost it. Thank you Old Saint. I think this sums up the LFS owner's dilemma very well and is something that anyone who is critical of the LFS business model should watch and consider. I would love to hear more constructive ideas on what you think the evolution of the LFS model should be. Adapt or die, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8B1lZp0ULM

 

[TampaSnooker]

And yes, the aquarium industry's manufacturers and distributors need to wake up and realize that they are putting the brick and mortar stores that built them up out of business.

 

[Webmanny]

Very good points Snooker. Thank you for the link. I do hope that manufacturers and distributors realize that there is a problem and do something about it. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I really hope that our local stores don't disappear like all the small electronics stores have.

People don't understand that they really do play a critical part in the future of these stores and it is hard to make someone understand that the benefit of saving a few dollars on sales tax today, will some day soon be gone.

When that day comes and will come soon, you will realize that you no longer have any financial benefit by buying online. Therefore, you will want to return to your LFS to get your equipment replacements, only to find that they are no longer there.

I really hope things change soon and for the better. Not only on the hobbyist side, but manufacturers, distributors and yes, LFS. We all need to change and adapt. There is a happy medium and we need to find it.

 

[MJNTWise]

Whats sucks for the LFS..Is the guy that goes in and asks for help or advise and then goes online to buy...Just saying....

 

[janes_mw]

To clarify my previous post.

Although we may not all agree with the way the industry is going, it is a reality of the way it is going. As generations change (baby boomers to x gen to y gen.. etc.) the culture of how folks buy and live change. As a result, successful industries have rolled with the punches and begrudgingly have changed how they deal with the consumers of today. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, I'm just saying that it is a matter of fact that the buying and shopping habits of America have really changed from the "old". So it's going to take some movement of our hobby retailers and suppliers to analyze and adapt to the buying habits of the newer generations. We may not like it, but it is a reality. Just saying we need to change our buying habits to maintain the "status quo" prevents growth in the hobby and in life in general. It is a two way street and the distribution channels need to help the LFS in gaining traction and not pulling the rug from under them.

 

[MJNTWise]

Ya and Us as Hobbyist should stop buying from the online retailers and started supporting you LFS that would help too....How many of you buy your food online???????

 

[BryanS4]

How many of you buy your food online???????

Not me, bought my LRS from local store last week.

After reading this, I'm really going to make a big effort to drive down, starting tomorrow. 3 hours round trip, but the OP really makes some good points and I couldn't imagine the day I had to walk into Petco for crap.

 

[janes_mw]

Ya and Us as Hobbyist should stop buying from the online retailers and started supporting you LFS that would help too....How many of you buy your food online???????

Well, me for one. I go to the closest store, looking for PE mysis....none, Go to next store, none and on and on. So, yup, I buy online. Takes me 2 minutes and I can get it. Ask the local store..... too hard to get .......

Been doing this for 30 years folks. If the industry doesn't try to adapt the for sure will go out of business. Stonewalling the customer based on "support us or we will not be here" is rubbish.

 

[MJNTWise]

Well, me for one. I go to the closest store, looking for PE mysis....none, Go to next store, none and on and on. So, yup, I buy online. Takes me 2 minutes and I can get it. Ask the local store..... too hard to get .......

Been doing this for 30 years folks. If the industry doesn't try to adapt the for sure will go out of business. Stonewalling the customer based on "support us or we will not be here" is rubbish.

I was referring to the food you eat....lol...Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[janes_mw]

I was referring to the food you eat....lol...Sorry for the misunderstanding.

now that's funny!

Actually...... when we lived in China, online sales was how we in fact ordered and got our fresh goods! the supplier (fields) delivered daily and received from distribution local.

 

[jrizo1]

Since Doug was the bad guy in the other thread I'll be it here.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html

Florida law does require reporting online purchases and payment of the appropriate sales tax to the State. Not that anyone is doing such but it is the law. Eventually the Fl. Dept of Revenue will catch up with technology and escaping the payment of sales tax won't be possible.

excellent point also where do our state tax dollars go?
education, health, public services ETC.
if we buy everything online tax free we are not helping our state