Sudden xenia die-off. Why?

[DMBillies]

Howard- You can upload pictures to a file sharing software (picasaweb, flickr, photobucket, etc.) and link the images onto reef central boards. Might be good for future reference so that you can post bigger pictures (in case you ever need to show something really detailed on RC).

 

[HowardCath]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9487151#post9487151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef_bones
Mine did that too... It's a good thing..

that usually means your water is too clean for them...or that is what I was told.

I'll accept that complement! ...but I'll let you in on a dirty little secret that just might get me booted out of the Reef Club. Don't tell anyone, but I'm not using a skimmer. (Boy, I'm gonna get an earfull now!) Still debating in my own head the possible plus and minuses. Want to keep it simple. Apart from this xenia blight, my corals have been doing great, of late.

 

[HowardCath]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9487452#post9487452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DMBillies
Howard- You can upload pictures to a file sharing software (picasaweb, flickr, photobucket, etc.) and link the images onto reef central boards. Might be good for future reference so that you can post bigger pictures (in case you ever need to show something really detailed on RC).

Oh. So that 125 KB is just a limit on my Reef Central gallery? If I paste the web address of a picture from one the sites you mentioned, then it would appear in here as a bigger, better picture? I'll try that next time.

 

[HowardCath]

Xenia blight stopped as suddenly as it began. About 1/2 of xenia mass has now gone, but a lot has remained and new fronds are growing. I don't know if a small carbon/resin bag in the sump made the difference or if it some "natural" phenomenon just ran its course. No other corals appeared stressed throughout this time.

 

[pitbullpooch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9487516#post9487516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardCath
I'll let you in on a dirty little secret that just might get me booted out of the Reef Club. Don't tell anyone, but I'm not using a skimmer. (Boy, I'm gonna get an earfull now!) Still debating in my own head the possible plus and minuses. Want to keep it simple. Apart from this xenia blight, my corals have been doing great, of late.

alot of people including myself and my dad which has been in the hobby for 20 plus years run skimmerless. my dad has a 90% sps tank that has run skimmerless for going on 5 years now with no problems and he also skimps on water changes more then he should and has to many fish to count lol but he still has a tank that looks as good as any ive seen that run skimmers. he also has a fowlr that has been up for over 20 years with no skimmer and has never had a reason to add one. so to me it can be done either way but ive always done it skimmerless and it works so i figure why try to fix something that isnt broke. so dont feal like your breaking a rule. theres alot of peolple who do it

edit: actually theres a guy here on rc that has a 500 gallon thats all sps and tons of tangs that has one of the best reef tanks ive seen and runs skimmerless. I was just reading his thread the other day so ill have to dig it up so you can see the pics. its been up for 10 plus years...

 

[HowardCath]

Thanks, Mike. It is with great relief that I am now "out of the closet" having admitted to the world that I am running skimmerless.

 

[DMBillies]

Howard- The 125 KB limit is just for pictures hosted on RC... You can link any picture you like.

On running skimmerless... I know quite a few people who do. You gotta do what works for you. I know my softies and a lot of my LPS grew better without a good skimmer. That's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to put a bigger skimmer on my 92. Xenia don't seem to mind dirtier water at all, so I wouldn't expect that to be the culprit in this episode... unforntunately if you dont' find a culprit, you don't learn from your "mistakes" so hopefully you figure something out.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9486568#post9486568 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardCath
Crumbletop, my last 20% water change was about 3 weeks before the xenia blight began. I drain water from the tank because my sump at floor level would not siphon well. I replace water into the tank because I can't reach to pour into the sump well (and because I never thought about it either!)

I do the following to do water changes:

1) I cut the power to my return pump. I positioned one of my return outlets in the display such that enough water would drain back into the sump when I cut the power to fill, but not overflow the sump.
2) I have a maxijet pump that I attached some tubing to (5/8 ID tubing?). I toss the pump into the sump and plug it in. I pump the sump water into 5 gal buckets.
3) I then pull the pump and toss it into my new water mixup tub, and run the tubing into the sump and plug it in again. This pumps all the new mixup water into the sump.
4) I restore power to the return pump and clean up my buckets, etc.

In general, I have found it very useful to have this pump with tubing attached. It makes it easy to pump water from one place to another.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9555911#post9555911 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pitbullpooch
alot of people including myself and my dad which has been in the hobby for 20 plus years run skimmerless. my dad has a 90% sps tank that has run skimmerless for going on 5 years now with no problems and he also skimps on water changes more then he should and has to many fish to count lol but he still has a tank that looks as good as any ive seen that run skimmers.

All I have read, seen and been taught is that clean water is one of the key elements for success with SPS. Key to that is nutrient export. Water changes, fuges, algal turf scrubbers, foam fractionators, phosphate binders, etc, are things that are used for this purpose. The point I'm trying to make, is that protein skimming is not the only method of export out there, but that export is important in maintaining clean water.

Mike, does your dad use any form of nutrient export other than water changes on his SPS tank? Got any pics?

 

[pitbullpooch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9557027#post9557027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
All I have read, seen and been taught is that clean water is one of the key elements for success with SPS. Key to that is nutrient export. Water changes, fuges, algal turf scrubbers, foam fractionators, phosphate binders, etc, are things that are used for this purpose. The point I'm trying to make, is that protein skimming is not the only method of export out there, but that export is important in maintaining clean water.

Mike, does your dad use any form of nutrient export other than water changes on his SPS tank? Got any pics?

he does run a refugium with macro algae so that i think helps out alot. Ill have to take some pics the next time i get up to michigan. hes an old timer and doesnt even have the internet so he dont even use email or id have him send some pics. there are a few others i know of that run skimmerless sps tanks here on rc but as you said they use other methods of nutrient export. what i have found is the people who do say you have to use a skimmer to have a sps tank have never tried one without. there are plenty of other methods like you mentioned that work and to me a refugium is all i need and it just seems like a more natural method. now when we setup our new tank which will be some where around 500 gallons i think im gonna run a skimmer just because of the amount of larger fish we plan to keep. so i do think they are helpfull but i think alot of times there not needed.

 

[HowardCath]

I appreciate the discussion and I AM taking notes! I have wondered about what additional chore cleaning and maintaining a skimmer might be, what unknown nutrients might I be exporting that I might need to supplement (all I do now is weekly buffer and Reef Complete), & how each piece of added equipment increases the chances that one will fail (which is more likely whenever you leave town for a few days!).

I am happy with my present setup which is 95% softies and few SPS frags at the top of tank for interest. Jack, I think it was you who told me in a previous thread about how easy it would be to create a refugium in my sump by adding chaeto and a cheap grow light of some sort. It was also mentioned that I would need to be certain that no pieces of chaeto get sucked into my return pump. Would that be by using some filter over the opening where the sump water goes out to the pump or by using some sort of filtering container for the chaeto?

 

[Big Goose]

Alk

Alk

I put in too much buffer one time and it zapped mine (as well as a lot of other things.)

I use Xenia as a water quality indicator. I also have Paly Grandus that change color if anything is wrong.

Good luck

Goose

 

[Big Goose]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9471144#post9471144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardCath
Double take! These are 2 pics taken during my water change when the surface is still and low and the corals are reflected under the water's surface. Thanks for everyone's input.

You got any friends that are Shrinks? They might want to use these.
:bum:

 

[pitbullpooch]

sorry will post tommorow when i got some links....

 

[mtrc_sps_lover]

speeking of skimerless tanks heres a nice one

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/aquarium also look into Eric Borneman's tanks. hes a well known reefkeeper and believes in running skimerless tanks. also go to this site and in the second row from the top click on the first video and you will see adreas skimerless tank http://www.reefvideos.com/ alot of the nicer sps tanks ive seen in europe were skimerless and have easy basic setups. It can be done either way but i have always had better luck with skimerless. I had my first large sps tank with a skimmer for a year and the skimmer went out on me so i went a few months skimerless and actually noticed better growth from my corals including my sps so ive been skimerless every since. I also had trouble keeping my sps color staying nice no matter what lighting i used and once i was skimerless my sps colored up better then ever. ofcourse this is what i experienced and im not saying anyone who skims is wrong i just have always had better luck with growth and color from my corals including my sps which some say have to be in a skimmed tank which i have read some have trouble with color now and have to feed more or add more fish to there tanks due to low nutrients which can cause sps to loose color and is due to overskimming. so my point is dont feal bad for not skimming alot of people do it including people that are well respected in the reef hobby and alot of us have better results then some who skim so i hate when people say you have to skim to have a healthy reef when alot of us old timers and alot of well respected reef keepers have better tanks then some who skim.

 

[HowardCath]

Thanks. I checked out the links, too. I'll settle in and watch some videos tomorrow.

 

[mtrc_sps_lover]

good deal howard. my brother pitbullpooch asked me to send you the link to my tank. Im gonna be back in germany next week but will check the forum if you have any questions .just pm me if you got any questions. pitbullpooch is in iraq for a few months atleast. most likely gonna be 6-8 months he said so I pray he makes it back. meanwhile i got to go back to germany so ill talk to you folks later

 

[HowardCath]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9836311#post9836311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mtrc_sps_lover
pitbullpooch is in iraq

I wish you both well and hope you can come home soon. You are in our thoughts and the thoughts of the world.