Sump Return\avoiding flood question

[chrisstie]

Okay so I'm working on doing plumbing for a sump to a 55 gallon with an overflow box.

I'm working on figuring out how to do the return line to the tank. I have a pump that sits in the sump, the configuration of the two requires flexible tubing, and then the water will feed back into the tank.

In the event that the gravity\siphon\intake to the sump fails (though I can't see how unless theres air build up but better to plan for the worse!) .. the sump pump would then pump everythign in the sump back into the tank, causing a flood.

How does one avoid this in my situation? A limit switch or overflow switch or is there something mechanical one would do to the tubing?

I am getting my dads help on this and we're trying to find out what other reefers do.

Thanks!

 

[Sk8r]

You can drill a hole in a hose near the top that will break any siphoning action, but you may not need to. Fill your sump with the power off. Measure your freeboard [how much to go to the top,] and mark it with a grease pencil, giving yourself one inch at least of remaining freeboard.

Measure it with pump power on, and mark it too. It will be lower. Perhaps too low. You can get maybe a little more water in, but do not let the number of inches of your fill drive your 'off' waterlevel over the top.

This power-on level will be your fill-mark when topping off. Be sure to preserve the fill-line.

It's easier to show than to tell: please anyone who spots a problem, elaborate.

 

[mfinn]

When you loose the syphon on your overflow box, nothing can be done to stop a flood.
The only way to prevent this is to drill the tank.

 

[sjm817]

1) Use a good overflow that doesn't lose siphon.
2) Make the return section of the sump small enough that it doesn't have enough water in it to overflow the display. It would suck air and likely ruin the pump.
3) use a float switch to kill the return pump.

the main thing is #1. You should never lose siphon with a good, properly setup overflow.

I'll add that if the tank isn't set up yet, and is drillable, you should drill it,

 

[chrisstie]

It's not drillable and I can't afford the kind you can.

We figured out that we can mount the return pump partway up in the sump so it would actually run out of water before the tank would overflow but it will require some testing.

 

[mfinn]

The main problem with that is, you will loose X amount of gallons of water to evaporation every week.
By mounting the return pump up even part way in the sump, you will have to constantly moniter the sump level to keep from running the pump dry, causing possible fire.

You can have a successful saltwater tank using a overflow box.
The better quality overflow, the less likely of a failure.
I would leave the pump low in the sump, making use of what little volume you will have anyway.
Make a point to check the overflow tubes or atleast look at them everyday, to make sure bubbles are not gathering.

The only way to bulletproof the overflow is to drill.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8433524#post8433524 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
It's not drillable and I can't afford the kind you can.

Not sure what you mean. What is the budget for the overflow?

 

[prugs]

The bottom of most 55gal tanks are tempered. Do not drill the bottom.
Not sure who made your tank, but many of the manufacturers do not use tempered glass for the sides.
Get with your local reef club. Some one most likely can drill your tank for a small amount of cash or trade.

 

[sjm817]

I've heard that there are 55G's that are tempered all the way around.

 

[BadRambo]

Hi Yall ----

My recent aquisition (Oceanic 58 gal) glass tank has a sticker on the bottom plate that says:

** TEMPERED GLASS -- DO NOT DRILL **

But no markings on the sides. Guess I had better give this issue some thought.

Bob ---

 

[chrisstie]

As far as the tank goes .. it isn't one you can drill and it would most likely shatter. I cant afford to just go and buy a drillable tank I've put so much money into the lighting adn will into the rocks etc.

I have already bought a lot of the tubes\pipes I will need to do this but we were pondering a practical situation that would mean loss of siphon and the pump returning too much and flooding the tank.

What if the power goes out? It often does where I live in FL (For some reason 2am on the dot some mornings).. The return pump will stop, and if its out for any amount of time the siphon from the overflow will drain its part of the tank and there will bea break at some point so as to not flood the overflow.

However, once the siphon is lost on that end, lets say the power comes back on and the pump goes on and begins to pump again - unless I happen to be there and get lucky and can kill the pump until I regain a siphon, the tank would flood.

I have a little prefilter box with a HOB overflow that goes down to the sump. There will be a U shaped tube like many of the overflows i've seen here that connects the inside of the tank to the outside through the siphon.

 

[BadRambo]

Maybe it is the case, but I would think someone would offer some type of flow-sensor switch arrangement that could be put in the siphon line such that if siphon flow is lost for any reason, it could shut down your pump --- until you MANUALLY reset the system. That would prevent the problem with power coming back on and the pump starting up again with no siphon feed working to the filter....

Anyone ever see such a system offered anywhere ???

Cheers --- Bob

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8434447#post8434447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BadRambo
Maybe it is the case, but I would think someone would offer some type of flow-sensor switch arrangement that could be put in the siphon line such that if siphon flow is lost for any reason, it could shut down your pump --- until you MANUALLY reset the system. That would prevent the problem with power coming back on and the pump starting up again with no siphon feed working to the filter....

Anyone ever see such a system offered anywhere ???

Cheers --- Bob

I doubt if something like that exists. At least not in the aquarium trade.

chrisstie, if you have a brand name overflow box, the ends of the u-tubes will remain under water in the respective boxes.
Under normal circumstances the overflow box will restart the syphon.
On both the inside box and the outside box, there will be a small amount of water remaining, which keeps the u-tube full of water.

You just need to remain vigilant, that bubbles don't collect at the top of the u-tube. That will cause a syphon failure and a flood.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8434414#post8434414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisstie
As far as the tank goes .. it isn't one you can drill and it would most likely shatter. I cant afford to just go and buy a drillable tank I've put so much money into the lighting adn will into the rocks etc.

I have already bought a lot of the tubes\pipes I will need to do this but we were pondering a practical situation that would mean loss of siphon and the pump returning too much and flooding the tank.

What if the power goes out? It often does where I live in FL (For some reason 2am on the dot some mornings).. The return pump will stop, and if its out for any amount of time the siphon from the overflow will drain its part of the tank and there will bea break at some point so as to not flood the overflow.

However, once the siphon is lost on that end, lets say the power comes back on and the pump goes on and begins to pump again - unless I happen to be there and get lucky and can kill the pump until I regain a siphon, the tank would flood.

I have a little prefilter box with a HOB overflow that goes down to the sump. There will be a U shaped tube like many of the overflows i've seen here that connects the inside of the tank to the outside through the siphon.

That isn't true. A good overflow wont lose siphon when the power is out. It could be out for many days/weeks and it will start right up.

 

[BadRambo]

OK Guys ----

Since I am not using a drilled tank, what would you suggest for me to look at for a well-designed overflow/siphon box setup???

Brand name(s)?? I will surely be interested in getting a good one that will hold siphon if power is lost.

Another thought. Do people use TWO boxes for redundancy (and maybe more flow?).

Thanks --- Bob ---

 

[sjm817]

Ok, you want the best? You want one that WILL NOT lose siphon? The most reliable you can buy? It does cost a bit more than others but is well worth it for the reasons listed.

Lifereef

 

[chrisstie]

I am at a disadvantage because my tank isn't set up yet and I haven't truly had a way to test this- I spend time with my current tank every day and plan to do so also with the 55 and would be extremely vigilant to make sure there isn't enough buildup to cause a flood

However if the siphon would remain that would be good. I was also thinking of drilling a hole in the U tube to create a siphon break if the tank was going to be in a situation to flood the sump (same problem, just reversed flow I guess) ...

Is there a way to position the part of the overflow on the inside of the tank to keep the siphon but without a hole and still not run the risk of flooding the sump? Keeping the box at a certain level in the tank maybe?


I really need a way to experiment with this somehow hah

 

[mfinn]

Do not drill a hole in the u-tube.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8434790#post8434790 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mfinn
Do not drill a hole in the u-tube.

As above. You want to lose siphon? What better way to do it than to add a hole in the siphon tube? VERY bad idea.

 

[mfinn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8434681#post8434681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BadRambo
OK Guys ----

Since I am not using a drilled tank, what would you suggest for me to look at for a well-designed overflow/siphon box setup???

Brand name(s)?? I will surely be interested in getting a good one that will hold siphon if power is lost.

Another thought. Do people use TWO boxes for redundancy (and maybe more flow?).

Thanks --- Bob ---

I agree with the recommendation for LifeReef, they are the best built ones hands down.

You don't need two overflow boxes, just get a overflow box rated for higher flow.
But be sure and get the right sized pump.
Using too small of a pump will cause bubbles to form in the top of the overflow tube.