sumps and bioballs: a warning

[Sk8r]

A popular sump manufacturer always includes bioballs in the rig.

Generally you should just discard these. They are trouble for a reef---nitrate builds up in them and will keep your nitrates higher than is good for anything in your tank.

Why do they put them in? It's an oldfashioned way of doing things. It works, but not well enough for modern reefkeeping. If you're using live rock, they're mostly obsolete.

Likewise, if your lfs wants to sell you a 'spensive filter---and you have live rock at 1-2 lbs per gallon, you don't need the filter. Filters have their own nitrate problems. They ARE good for running carbon and polypad and micron filters, but those aren't things you run all the time. Pack it away for a time of need.

But if you've been running bioballs OR a filter--DO NOT suddenly cut it out of the system: withdraw bioballs or filter medium 1 layer every couple of days, or your system won't have time to adjust to the change, and you'll have a spike.

HTH.

 

[bmk]

Hi
Some VERY conflicting reports with regards to bio balls. I live in England and my local LFS has a PHD in marine chemistry, he writes for a marine magazine and is a lecturer at a university on marine reef keeping. If you mention to him that bio balls are bad then he shrugs his shoulders and asks where did that info come from. I have just setup my tank (in it's eighth week, no livestock yet) and I dont have bio balls I have 60lb live rock and an Eheim 2026 running mechanical media (bottom) and chemical media (top).

Barry

 

[Sk8r]

I've run with about every system there is, including bioballs, including the plain rock and sand with skimmer, and I'm really glad to be rid of the bioballs and filter concept. When I ran bioballs and drip filter, [a 100g with a 50g sump/wet dry] I constantly battled water quality issues even with ro/di. I kept mushrooms, zoas, and softies right well with them [these filter feeders love water that's full of food]. But I couldn't keep stony coral, let alone sps. WHen I went over to plain lr/ls [rock and sand] my lps, like frog and hammer have tripled in size in a year, and some of my sps have done marvelously---I've taken frags every two months off my montiporas. Now I'm going one step further, upping my skimmer and adding kalk, with the intent of doing a fairly nutrient-low tank and cultivating some of the fussier acroporas. Not every tank will do everything.

And I'm not saying bioballs and filters are useless. My own position is that if you know how to use them, when to use them, and are somewhat of an expert in using them, they can be really a fine tool. Thank you for pointing that out...because it's true.

However, most new users are struggling to keep their chemistry level steady, and most new tanks are 'swingy', tending to ups and downs because of minor mistakes. When somebody writes in to RC saying "I have a major nitrate problem" and has bioballs in the system, there are two easy fixes: do faithful water changes every week, and 2, get rid of the bioballs bit at a time. This will correct the problem in most instances.

Later on, if a particular user has, say, a lot of larger fish, and is particularly finicky about cleaning things, and is very good, even obsessive, about his schedules, he may find that bioballs can handle his fish load and that an Eheim is a great help. If he's keeping zoas, or mushrooms, they may love the extra chemical load and grow quite well.

I'd say, start plain, with rock and sand and skimmer; and then add things to your system, as you find out you need it. Bioballs were a great invention, ditto the porous stone ones, but if you have enough live rock, you're ok without. You'd need, yourself, 1lb rock to 1 US gallon, and either barebottom or a 3" sandbed, and you wouldn't have to clean the filter any longer, just phase it out and use it only as a temporary cleaner. 8 weeks waiting for a cycle is a pretty long wait, unless you started with mostly base rock and a very little live rock. Are you cleaning that filter, or just letting it get dirty as it will get? I went through the cycle in 3 weeks, in a smaller tank [54 US g] with a 20g sump [at the time], and 80 lbs of very old rock.
Filters do several things, not all good: 1. they get particulates out [somewhat good]; 2. they reduce your flow [not good] and 3. they strip trace minerals out in chemical filtration [not good]. and 4. they do a bit of the bioball nitrate surge [dirty] and starvation [clean] that afflicts your sandbed and rock with an alternate glut of food [big bacterial activity] and famine [dieback of bacteria, adding THAT to the bioload, while soon needing bacteria to digest their own dead comrades.] That's my own bias against filters.

Your lfs sounds like a good one, with an owner who really knows and loves what he's doing, degree to boot, but it is a particular kind of tank handling. What I advocate is another breed of tank management. I think you have to do is some reading-up and make up your own mind re what you want to keep in your tank and how much of which method is right for you.

 

[HPD Turbo]

But you use some kind of mechanical filtrtion?

 

[chopsuey]

This a real Interesting topic

LOL Im a bit old school.... I have been keeping reef aquaria for over 10 years. The owner of My LFS Soutas Saltwater also swears by bio balls. Have a look at his 6 year old display tank.

My system is setup almost identical to his and I have never had the issues that I see people posting about regarding bio-balls. I wish there was a good study done that would end this debate once and for all.

 

[WaterKeeper]

My thoughts on this were the conditions in a wet/dry system do not provide anaerobic zones for denitrification to take place. Randy Holmes-Farley and myself discussed the "Nitrate Factory" topic several times. Randy thought that even with a DSB for denitrification the aerobic nitrifying filters dispersed the nitrates throughout the water column making it harder for the denitrifiers to further process it.

I also proposed that colonies of cyanobacteria inhabit this type of media. They can directly convert atmospheric nitrogen to nitrate. This again would help explain the term "Nitrate Factory". Anyway many reef keepers have indeed shown that it is nearly impossible to remove nitrate from a aquarium system when a UGF, wet/dry or biowheel is used.

Your thread again SK.

 

[papagimp]

It is very possible to keep a thriving reef with bioballs, they do have their time and place, but it's all dependant on the setup in question. And more imporatantly, how well your tank can export the nitrates. A good means of mechical filtering prior to the bioballs will really help to keep them from accumulating any detritus, which is one large problem with bioballs, they catch and hang on to crap to easily. That aside, they do not allow for any anerobic bacteria to colonize on them, and this is what is needed for natural nitrate reduction. If you had a filter setup up to mechanically filter the water, then run it by the bioballs, and then onto a deep sand bed, I bet nitrates would not be a problem at all. it's all in how you have it setup, and I have found most wet/dry or bioballs setups are not done in a manner which will benefit a reef tank much. In a freshwater system witout natural nitrate reductions, bioballs work as good as any means of biological filtration.

If your tank has lot's of anerobic bacteria and no bioballs, when the nitrites are converted into nitrate, the bacteria needed to reduce the nitrates is right there deep in the rock or sandbed, right next to the aerobic bacteria, with bioballs though, the nitrates are released into the water column, usually far enough away from the anerobic areas that they just can't keep up with production as effectively. At least this is what my own research shows. For newbies, I would recommend avoiding the entire bioball issue for now. Once you get your feet (or hands) wet for long enough, and you feel confident to battle any potential nitrate problems, give em a try later.

 

[Osmotic Shock]

Good discussion guys, lots of good info here for those just starting out.

 

[WaterKeeper]

Good info Papa.

The biggest reason for using a wet/dry is that it uses oxygen from the atmosphere to oxidize nitrogen waste. With a UGF the oxygen is removed from the water column. In a heavily stocked tank, a sudden increase in nitrogen load can quickly create a situation where a UGF uses up the available dissolved oxygen to meet the increased load. This can create dangerously low oxygen levels for one's fish. Both wet/drys and biowheels do not have this drawback.

 

[chewie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10178657#post10178657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chopsuey
This a real Interesting topic

LOL Im a bit old school.... I have been keeping reef aquaria for over 10 years. The owner of My LFS Soutas Saltwater also swears by bio balls. Have a look at his 6 year old display tank.

My system is setup almost identical to his and I have never had the issues that I see people posting about regarding bio-balls. I wish there was a good study done that would end this debate once and for all.

Ricks tank always looks GREAT! He is not using bio balls alone though. That tank is bare bottomed, and has plenty of live rock, and good current. It is a great working system.

chopsuey,

Got any pics of your tank?

 

[Sk8r]

Myself, I use no mechanical filtration at all. I do have a sump, and a big [foot wide] stiff ball of cheatomorpha that probably functions as a living filter sponge---it's healthy, it's huge, and it's rife with living creatures that eat algaes, detritus, etc. So I can't claim there's no filtration in there. It's also a great micro-bubble stopper. I route my skimmer effluent back to the first chamber of the sump, running it and the downflow together back through that ball of cheato before it hits the heater chamber and the return chamber, where some water gets sucked up to the tank and some gets sucked up by the skimmer. I think if you're going to have a particulate filter, it's hard to do better than a great big ball of cheato under a pretty good light. I put my skimmer up above the sump on eggcrate just so I could have room for this greenspace feature. It provides copepods for my mandarin and cleans the water and provides oxygenation: can you ask more of a filter?

 

[seapug]

My 90 was initially run in with bioballs and I have never had nitrate problems, but I also am a first believer in a rigorous water change schedule so nothing ever really has a chance to accumulate. The only other filtration is a sponge in the over flow that gets cleaned multiple times/week and a bag of chemi-pure in the sump.

Regardless, I have been gradually been taking them out over the past couple months (remove a couple/week) as a part of a greater sump conversion plan I have in mind. I've noticed no difference in my tank with them or without them. Still tests the same (undetectable nitrate), so who knows....

 

[chopsuey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10178875#post10178875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chewie
Ricks tank always looks GREAT! He is not using bio balls alone though. That tank is bare bottomed, and has plenty of live rock, and good current. It is a great working system.

chopsuey,

Got any pics of your tank?

Here is a current pic of my 10 + or - month new tank. I recently upgraded from my 55g all softy setup to a SPS dominated tank....

.....well havent really got very far with the whole sps domination part as $$$ has been tight lately. But I add new frags as I can.

You can see the progression of my tank by clicking on the lil red house at the top of my post.

 

[chewie]

Nice!

I like the cave on the left side. I hear you on the frags. Some places are ridiculously overpriced for frags.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[chopsuey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10179787#post10179787 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chewie
Nice!

I like the cave on the left side. I hear you on the frags. Some places are ridiculously overpriced for frags.

Thanks for sharing!

I noticed that you are also in Portland. I added you to my buddy list. Hey try Upscale Fish&Reptile in Tigard off of Martinazzi. they dont have as nice of frags as Rick, but they have them all for 12.99 or less. and 3 for 25.00

 

[Sk8r]

not to thread-drift, but try some montiporas---digitatas in particular, although the shelving sort is fast, too: the stuff grows like crazy, so you have something to trade fairly often, and it can fill up the spaces until you can trade your way to that special coral you want. If you need room, just snap it off, mount the frags, and the stubborns stuff will probably regrow if two polyps of it were left behind. Pocillopora's pretty good in that regard, too, and frags very easily.

 

[Paul B]

Anyway many reef keepers have indeed shown that it is nearly impossible to remove nitrate from a aquarium system when a UGF, wet/dry or biowheel is used.

Waterkeeper, you mean I have been running my reef wrong for 36 years.
Why diden't you tell me :smokin:

 

[WaterKeeper]

I have you-- You Dumb NEWBIE!!!

 

[Paul B]

I wish I could find my bioballs, wet dri with the spray bar and that treasure chest with the bubbles. :lol:

 

[kevin2000]

My 02

Depends on the system, and how its maintained. Bio balls have been around a long time and there are some outstanding coral tanks that use them (Soutus Saltwater is only one of many).

Seems like any efficient filter system (wet dry, canister etc) has the ability to out pace the nitrification ability ... whether that creates a problem depends on how many fish, how much you feed, how often you clean the filter media etc.