Sumps are bad for reefkeeping

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10391307#post10391307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kysard1
I am a little dissapointed that the topic has to be degraded to questioning my credentials.

The first thing you learn in fluid dynamics when designing a fluid system is to avoid turbulence
Turbulence can’t be predicted or modeled with equations the way laminar flow can. I am by no means
an expert with reefs, but no one around here is running a moderately sized sump without filter bags
to catch bubbles from the turbulence of the overflow.
Click to expand...
I am by no means an expert compared to the rest of the group--but turbulent flow is the desired flow for reef aquariums. Straight laminar flow can create pockets of dead space esp on the top of the tank where some air exchange occurs. It can also create "dead zones" in the corners of tanks etc where detrius etc can build up making a great area for cyno etc to grow. An lastly turbulent flow assures that food etc that gets trapped in the reef etc gets put back into the water column.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10392056#post10392056 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seattlerob
Have you been reading the replies in this thread? A LOT of people are running a moderately sized sump without filter bags to catch bubbles. Way more people than "no one".
Click to expand...

Around here is where I live, not the internet.
 
kysard1 - Whoever convinced you that sumps are bad didn't do his/her homework first. This hobby changes every day and I'm always interested in learning new ways of applying my skill set (that's why I subscribed to this thread in the first place). As for sumps, I doubt they will be going away anytime soon, if ever.
 
You may be able to see some of it in my gallery.

The basic setup is very simple.

(3) standpipes, each configured with a ball valve below the TEE and a cap and air valve on top of the TEE. Each standpipe goes down to the sump and is submerged about an inch.

Standpipe (1) is configured with a full open ball valve and an open air valve. The air valve has a piece of air hose attached. The air hose curls over and is clamped to the tank trim so that it's opening is just below the edge of the trim. The intake to the standpipe is a down turned elbow.

Standpipe (2) is configured with a partially closed ball valve and a fully closed air valve. The intake to the standpipe is a down turned elbow.

Standpipe (3) is configured with a partially closed ball valve and a full closed air valve. The intake to the standpipe is an up turned elbow with a strainer attached.

How it works:

Standpipe (2) creates a full siphon. The ball valve is used to adjust the flow so that it CAN NOT handle the entire volume from the return pump. The remainder of the flow is then forced into standpipe (1). The open air valve in standpipe (1) prevent a siphon from forming. So little water flows into standpipe (1) that the flow cascades down the pipe instead of drawing air and gurgling. The airline attached to standpipe (2) is fixed in such a way that high water in the return will block the air intake and force the standpipe into full siphon mode.

Remember standpipe (1) is partially closed and standpipe (2) is not. If standpipe (1) becomes fully blocked, standpipe (2) can easily handle all of the flow from the return pump!

Standpipe (3) is the emergency standpipe. The fully closed air valve means that it will operate under full siphon. If both SP (1) and SP (2) become fully blocked (unlikely) SP (3) is the failsafe.

SP (3) also aids during system startup when a full siphon has yet to form on SP (1).

The system is 100% dead silent. NO bubbles or injected into the sump. It is very self tuning and will even work with dump boxes or other wave devices.

I will never build an overflow setup with any other methodology if I have a choice.
 
Here is a basic photo of the setup.

21579room_for_RC.jpg


The standpipe closest is the emergency. Open ball valve, closed air valve. (the airline on top does nothing, I just had yet to remove it).

The middle standpipe is the full siphon. Notice the partly closed ball valve and the fully closed air valve.

The furhtest standpipe is the spillway. Notice the open ball valve and the fully closed air valve. The airline on top has not yet ben curled over and clamped to the tank rim.
 
I use a filter sock, and change it out weekly. I don't have nitrate problems . I must say it keeps the bottom of my sump clean real clean and my protein skimmer, still works just fine. In the ocean there are micro bubbles everywhere you look. Plus my surge system puts some in also. My corals grow things look great .
I personally must say do what works for you. But there is no perfect way that everyone must do.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10395347#post10395347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Here is a basic photo of the setup.

21579room_for_RC.jpg


The standpipe closest is the emergency. Open ball valve, closed air valve. (the airline on top does nothing, I just had yet to remove it).

The middle standpipe is the full siphon. Notice the partly closed ball valve and the fully closed air valve.

The furhtest standpipe is the spillway. Notice the open ball valve and the fully closed air valve. The airline on top has not yet ben curled over and clamped to the tank rim.
Click to expand...



This is a brillian way to avoid turbulence from the overflow.

Thanks for sharing, it will surely save a lot of grief people have with their overflows.
 
It was born out of a need for dead silence. The tank is the rear wall of my home theater. The 6' skimmer is the only thing that can be heard (in our out of the fishroom). One day I will tackle that problem also.
 
You won't catch me with a filter sock. I like my pod population and food to circulate so a sock is counter productive.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10399129#post10399129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
You won't catche me with a filter sock. I like my pod population and food to circulate so a sock is counter productive.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I have lots of pods in both my sump after the filter sock and in my tank, I only find a few in the sock at each cleaning
 
Marinlife i so much agree with what you said !


I only have just a few pods in my sock when it come to cleaning it . Once you get an establishment of pods growing in your tank they live in all the crevices and they grow like mad in my tank. My fish can't keep up with there populations . I guess if that does not work for some people then you can always add a refugium to the system. Most pods don't like swimming around in the water column they stay in crevices for protection. So loosing pods do to water filtration is not going to be a problem. Having a filter sock and changing it out on a regular basis is a good thing. It's good to have some type of filter, to take out unwanted particles. Not just depend on a protein skimmer! The cleaner your water the better.
 
Last edited:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10399129#post10399129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
You won't catch me with a filter sock. I like my pod population and food to circulate so a sock is counter productive.
Click to expand...

the pods have to go through a 3600 mag return pump to make it to the tank----does that kill alot of them off. My fuge teaming with them but I never see them in the main tank?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10402321#post10402321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
good grief another old timer lost to the other side.... I am starting to feel all alone :D
Click to expand...

I'm still in the middle and don't know what side is what---duh what a way to phrase this-LOL

Could you explain more what you meant for the obviously "reef challenged" :)
 
lets try again_____How are your pods introduced back into the main tank from the refugium? I would like to know if I am getting a satisfactory return of pods?

the refugium dumps into the corner of the sump where the return bulkhead is and then returns to the main tank up stairs(8 feet) via a 3600mag pump

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/reefescapetangster/IMG_4196.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>


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