Surge Tank Suggestions

[Laddy]

Next summer I'm gaining a substantial portion of basement space thanks to a small addition to our house (as if we actually need a new room for our treadmill and bowflex my wife currently drys laundry on )

Anyway, I was thinking setting up a frag tank down there, drawing water out to a vertically mounted tank above to surge the tank.

I'm thinking of a 48" x 48" x 8" frag tank (approx 78g), and was wondering if anyone could suggest a tank size or water % I should be looking into. Does anyone have a simliar setup?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jd474]

i would assume 5 or at the most, 10 gal. would suffice depending on how far you are dropping the water, and through what size piping. it is something that needs to be accounted for with tank construction, and how much water the drains can handle without flooding (also the sump level fluctuations). i run a 5 gal. carlson surge at either end of my 180, and it really moves quite a bit of water. we also use them on large tanks where "appropriate" turnover is difficult, and they work great.

 

[Laddy]

Good point on the piping. I'm thinking of an elevated 30g acrylic tank, and I could "experiment" with different voumes of water by raising or lowering the plumbing height of the surge spout.

 

[frankpayne32]

i would assume 5 or at the most, 10 gal. would suffice depending on how far you are dropping the water, and through what size piping. it is something that needs to be accounted for with tank construction, and how much water the drains can handle without flooding (also the sump level fluctuations). i run a 5 gal. carlson surge at either end of my 180, and it really moves quite a bit of water. we also use them on large tanks where "appropriate" turnover is difficult, and they work great.

I am also planning on setting up two 5 gal surge buckets on my new 125 gallon. What other means of circulation do you use? Has this affected your protein skimmer performance (ie. changing water level).

Sorry Laddy for hijacking but am also trying to gain info on surge devices.

Frank

 

[jd474]

I am also planning on setting up two 5 gal surge buckets on my new 125 gallon. What other means of circulation do you use? Has this affected your protein skimmer performance (ie. changing water level).

Sorry Laddy for hijacking but am also trying to gain info on surge devices.

Frank

on my personal tank, i just use a Reeflo Barracuda. it runs both surge buckets, as well as my Ca Rx, PO4 reactor, and main display circulation. my skimmer is a large euro-reef external skimmer, so it doesn't affect it (plus my sump is 100 gal., so the water level doesn't raise/lower too much from the surges), but i do think it would affect it in a regular submersible skimmer in a smaller sump.

 

[tabwyo]

I think the biggest thing people miss on surge is that it's how fast the volume enters the display. Not how much volume. Tunze wave boxs get dramatic water movent because they move a small volume of water into the display very quickly. 5g's on a 78g system with big enough plumbing will be way more than enough for what you are looking for.

 

[ckoral]

I built a surge for my 65 several years ago after seeing one from "rods reef" work at the chicago IMAC. I have been VERY happy with my surge device and rarely run my reeflo dart anymore (main pump). I am totally sold on a surge device. My reef room is mechanical so I don't have to hide anything, but If I ever build a display in the living room I will build an integrated surge/light hood.

I'm only dropping about 2.5Gal per flush, but as said earlier. It is more about how fast the water flushes out. If you raise your surge above the tank it will hit harder.


http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p87/ckoral/surge%20device/?action=view&current=surgestills001.jpg

http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p87/ckoral/surge device/?action=view&current=dualsurge.flv

 

[tabwyo]

I like that setup. Think there would be anyway to cut down on the bubbles?

 

[jd474]

I like that setup. Think there would be anyway to cut down on the bubbles?

+1, very clean setup. a carburetion pipe will help "off-gas" some of the bubbles, otherwise the air in the tube above water level has to come out somewhere.

 

[ckoral]

I absolutely hated the bubbles and thought it was a deal breaker. Now I actually like the bubbles. They are not micro bubbles so they exhaust off pretty quickly. It is very common between surges to see perfect calm with no bubbles. I also have a DA Reef Keeper and some times I put the mag 9.5 that powers it into standby mode for 30 min's.

I have believe there are other surge devices such as the RCSD that does not put as many bubbles into the tank. The St. Judes Hospital thread has pneumatic ball valves to control flow eliminating all bubbles, but that would be very expensive and requires air to control the valve (very noisy).

Nano or mega tank, I will forever use a surge of some type.

 

[frankpayne32]

I am definitely sold on the surge idea. I'm going to give it a shot on my 125 build. Hopefully two five gallon surge buckets placed three feet about the tank on opposite ends will be able to replace the two vortechs I was planning on buying. Will be nice to save about $700.

 

[Patroklos]

I like the idea but thw whole thing seems to be very hard to hide. Can you get the same idea via a strong pump activated at intervals?

 

[frankpayne32]

I like the idea but thw whole thing seems to be very hard to hide. Can you get the same idea via a strong pump activated at intervals?

I would imagine so but the wattage required to move that much water would be extreme and so would the purchase price of that pump. One of these can be built for $20 with a cheap/low wattage pump. Those are the advantages that I see.

 

[Steve175]

I am incorporating two of these into a 400G in wall build (dedicated sump room opposite wall so don't have to hide it and noise is not a concern). Am planning to get around the microbubbles by placing feed pump on a timer to surge in off hours (i.e., during work hours and over night). An option for my fellow bubble-haters

 

[herring_fish]

Dump Bucket

Dump Bucket

You can see a Youtube video of it by clicking here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYLkbx__s-Y&feature=related
Or go to my web site to see two other videos and more information about my old and new builds.

I use a dump bucket. It's simple, inexpensive and very tunable. It's long and low design provides a long dump payout time. Mine is only 6 inches wide so it is about 2 gallons. Of course, I added lights to make it a true Algal Turf Scrubber but that would not be necessary at all.

In version one, I had played with another bucket but the payout was too sharp and quick for me. I use to have version two right on top of the tank like in my avatar on the far left but the splash was a little anemic for me. I liked the payout time however so I re-used it on my new tank but raised it one foot to get the power that I wanted. Version 2.5 I guess. The action and sound kind of grows on you and I just couldn't think of doing without it.

This bucket is about four feet long and only three inches high to meet packaging requirements of my first tank design. The width can be changed to get more or less water volume.

I originally designed it on CAD so that I could play with the dimensions to get most of it right ahead of time. I liked being able to change the external fulcrum point during the set up phase so that I could be assured of success.

The water could be channeled into a smaller tube to limit bubbles but I like the splash as is. I also like the soothing sound level when the cabinet door is closed. I played with the height to get the intensity verses sound just right for me.

 

[ckoral]

That is a really neat design. I like the integrated algae scrubber. You are really handy with the graphics!

"The action and sound kind of grows on you and I just couldn't think of doing without it."
I agree. My reef would really be missing something without my surge. It runs so maintenance free.

Some commented how you can't hide these things. I truely think you could build a light hood with it integrated into the lighthood.

Don't give up on the idea to build one if you are thinking about it.

 

[albano]

alot of great ideas, here...am definately planning on 2 surge tanks for my 450g DT, originally thought that I would need a lot of volume, but maybe 10-20 gallons each, will be enough.

 

[herring_fish]

Look at the main picture on my main web site: http://asaherring.com
I built the bucket, complete with the lights for the scrubber in less than 6 inches of height for a low profile hood. You can just see it behind the MH lights and under the white CP florescents.

Raising the bucket has added power. A person could double or triple the width and let part of it hang off of the back like I did the first time. I guess that you could do the same thing for another type of surge device if you have the room.

Putting it all under the hood is definitely do-able.

 

[ckoral]

I bet a guy could make a living selling custom hoods with surging / lighting / scrubber options.
Although it is not something I would enjoy doing.

 

[GreshamH]

I bet a guy could make a living selling custom hoods with surging / lighting / scrubber options.
Although it is not something I would enjoy doing.

Not unless he wants to be sued for patent violation. Addy kinda has that one all wrapped up ATM.