switching between 10K's and 14K's....

Capt_Cully

Active member
Does changing bulbs help/hinder coral growth? I had hamilton 14k's for a while and didn't notice that much growth. Went back to Ushio 10k's and growth bloomed. HOWEVER, I had not been very religious about water changes. I have since been quite regimented. So that may have added to, or done the trick.

Again, does the change in "K" stimulate growth? Do the corals respond to the change favorably or would it stunt them while they adjust.

This may be an inane question, but what the heck. Figured I'd ask/discuss.
 
I believe 10ks, while not as nice looking, while spur coral growth. Wait for others to chime in.
 
The conventional wisdom says that light closer to 6k creates more growth. I'm sure there's a study out there somewhere. But waterchanges are certainly a good thing to do and I believe that's a factor as well.
 
I only have minute but wanted to fire off reply. I'll prob won't be able to check back late tonight.

The higher K bubs result in sightly less par usually.

There are several other variable though so one person's setup running 14k MH bulbs would not necessarily generate the same par values as another.

For one thing, DE bulbs burn brighter than single ended bulbs, so a 14k DE might even look more like 12k SE, and might have similar par values. Ballasts also have an effect on par values. Some electronic ballasts are said to not burn bulbs as bright as magnetic , for example a SE electronic ballast vs a SE magnetic. Don't forget that bulbs tend to burn 'overbright' durng the burn-in period when they are first used also. Another major factor on the par values is the reflectors being used, and the height of the bulb and reflector from the surface of the water. I've been following huge thread about lumen bright reflectors and I am set on ordering some for my next tank.

Here is melev's reef link about the lumen brights and par

http://melevsreef.com/par_readings.html

Here is the reefkeeping.com article on lumen bright and par, which also has a link o the RC lumen bright thread

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-06/review/index.php
 
I understand where you're coming from elvn. I've always run 10k's and only tried the 14's for 9 months. It was on a tank switch over, so there was alot of flux and maturing that needed to be done.

Tom at TRS used to swear by the Hamiton 14ks and we all know his old tank had rediculous growth. But I believe his secret was ultimately that he performs MASSIVE water changes regularly. We're talkin' 60 gallons once a week.

I like the growth I'm getting now, but love the color of the 14K's I just don't wanna slow things down if I don't have to.

My alterior motive here is that I HAVE 2 Hamilton 14K's NIB. And I could grab another to make the switch. The Ushios are pushing 8 months or so. I'm too cheap to drop $300 on 3 new Ushios at the moment. So that's what got me thinking. I didn't want to stall out the growth I'm getting now, but I'm not entirely certain that it's just from the 10K's or if it's from the water change regimen I've implimented.

.....I'm rambling....
 
Well Cully, I think I can offer some experience here. I had older hamilton 14K's originally on my old 45g. Growth was slow but not too bad. When I switched to the 65g, I also switched to 10K lamps (again, hamilton). Growth initially was higher with the 10K's but I too got lax about waterchanges, chemistry, etc. As such, growth slowed and came to a halt. As the bulbs approached 24months old AND my husbandry suffered growth on hard corals mostly ceased and many browned out. Recently I've switched to brand spanking new Reeflux 12K's which in 175watt are VERY blue (easily as blue as the hamilton 14K) AND gotten back on the waterchange horse. My SPS colonies are loving it, especially my super hairy green millepora which is pretty common here. The poor colony was only the size of a finger or two and was completely brown before. It's now vibrant green again and is growing like a weed.

So chicken or the egg? In theory switching from an old 10K to a new 14K should have been the same PAR... Although the blue lamp certainly does put out more blue wavelenghth that most hard coral zooxanthellae prefer. The difference IMO is more the water husbandry than the bulbs.

JMO
 
Using my M59 magnetic ballasts for all of my comparisons I have determined that (in my case) 10K does give me faster growth than 20K or 14K.

I started my tank w/ two 400w 20K XMs: great color, slow growth (but still growth...).

I then switched to 10K XMs (with two URI super actinic vho bulbs) and absolutely hated the color but got much faster growth.

Since I hated the color so much I then tried the 14K XMs hoping to maintain growth while finding a color I liked. Ack... horrible growth and color as the par on the 14K XMs was horrible compared to both 10K and 20K versions so the 14K were unbelievably dim in comparison.

I then went back to 20K and figured I'd just need a little extra patience for things to grow but at least I'd like the color.

Right now I'm back to the 10K bulbs for the past month and once again have seen faster growth. But I really hate the color... ugh.

I really want to put the 20K bulbs back in...
 
I have used every bulb combo out there and with my 400 watters over my tank I get good growth regardless of what kelvin I use. that being said water changes are definately the best thing that I have done for growth. Before I had a skimmer I used to change about 60 to 70 gallons a week. Once I got a skimmer I was doing those changes every three weeks or so and my growth almost stopped. Now I do about 25 gallons a week with the skimmer and a 10k and a 15k bulb with vhos and the growth is incredible. I had to get rid of a bunch of softies because they were growing faster then I could frag them. By the way anyone need some green nepthia")
 
I'm pretty sure Tom at TRS does monthly water changes close to 60%. The LPS in his tank go wild after a change too. It's a big change but worth it if you're looking for some real results. A waterchange is the best thing you can do for your tank IMO.

I'm on the t5 kick so I can't reply on MH bulbs.
 
Well, looks like I may be conducting my own little experiment. I feel now I've at least got a set of control circumstances. When I switched bulbs, AND started doing big, regular water changes, it created too many variables.

Maybe instead of spending all this money on bulbs I should invest in a PAR meter.
 
Calcium levels are also a factor of course, especially for small polyp stonies.

Two main things make my coral visibly popping with health right after I do them. One thing is a good water change along with fresh carbon (filter sock) + changing out phosar when needed (filter sock). The other is when I feed a pinch of golden pearls (50 to 100 micron) along with my regular feeding (usually plankton). Small "shrimpy" foods or blended fish scraps can be swallowed by coral polyp mouths for sure, but when I feed golden pearls the corals all turn into little vacuum cleaners so to speak, opening eagerly to 'filter' the food out of the water. The 'micro' foods are so small that the fish don't 'get to them first', and they stay in the water column for quite a while. There are other 'mirco' coral foods available that probably have the same effect.
Its difficult to feed enough if you are having algae problems though of course, which many of us go through or are wary of so we try to cut back on feeding to help solve or prevent the problem. You have to be careful using golden pearls and other 'micro' foods since they can cause nitrate spikes.. a little zoo plankton goes a long way. Thats a reason many non-photosynthetic filter feeding corals can't be kept easily in most setups - you usually can't bomb the tank with enough zoo plankton for them without crashing your tank / causing algae outbreaks.

http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/other-goldpearl-particle-c149.html


Like some of the people with 400watt bulbs said , you can usually get away with higher kelvin and still get good growth since the output is so high on 400watt bulbs. Many people run 20k/radium bulbs on their 400w setups and get good growth.

The reason I was promoting the lumen brights is that they get more par out of a bulb, and across more of a tank width and depth, even with 250w bulbs let alone 400w. However most people have to redesign/mod their canopy since the lumen brights have to be mounted so that the bulb is 15" or 16" above the water surface for the proper effect from the reflector. These reflectors also penetrate the tank with so much light that new owners have to start the new setup with a one to two hour MH acclimation photoperiod for many weeks so that they don't bleach their corals. They then ramp it up to 3 or 4 hours, and eventually top out the MH photoperiod at 6 hrs max from what I've read. People are raving about how their tanks look lit with these reflectors, and are also commenting on better coral growth with shorter MH photoperiods. Many people are running 12k reeflux bulbs on them too, which would probably be a lot more pleasing to those of us who don't like the look of 10k bulbs.

I like the color of my 14k DE pendants on my 120g tank , which burn more like 12k since they are brighter DE's. I get good coral growth as long as I am vigilant about water changes + carbon,run phosar, feed golden pearls periodically, and dose kalk. I've decided to go with three lumen bright mini reflectors on my next tank though. Don't confuse the name "mini", they are only small in comparison to the large lumen brights.. 16" diameter vs. 20". The tank they are going on is 60" x 30" x30". I'm going to set it up similar to melev's reef though he uses 10k's on the ends usually... The setup will be 250w SE 12k .. 400w SE radium .... 250w SE 12k. I also have four 4' vho's I may install as 'side rails', two on each side of the central MH, using 14k VHO bulbs. I'll have to let you know how it goes in the future, but I'm staying away from 10k bulbs. I'll have a decent photo period with only 14k vho's for awhile though because as I said you have to be really careful and acclimate corals to the lumen bright lighting setups over a few months at least. The need for acclimation will be exacerbated by the fact that the bulbs will all be new so in an over-bright burn in period also.

I do like the 14k (12k) reefoptix DE pendants on the bluewave VII hqi dual ballast I'm running on the 120g reef right now, but I am going to sell it after the new setup is running in order to make up for some of the cost. They do sell lumen bright DE pendants also if anyone is interested.

:cool:
 
Cully, you should try the Phoenix 14k 250 watt DE. It is a really nice bulb. It's coloring all my sps up really nice. For another tank i bought the Giesemann 14k 240 Se bulbs which were twice the price of the Phoenix. I'm getting better results out of the Phoenix. It's also a really nice looking light. Perfect blend of bright white and blue imo.
 
Yep jeremy you got it. Thats exactly how I feel, but on my mixed reef's corals. You can find them on sale once in a while too. From what you've said I think you would really like them Capt_Cully.


I disliked having a heavily actinic mix of vhos to supplement my 10k MH when I ran them since I liked extending my photoperiod with vho periods before and after the MH period. I thought I'd try 14k(12k?) DE MH's for a similar effect without running the supplemental actinic vhos. Later I thought I'd try 14k vhos when I noticed them on the market, so that I could extend my photoperiod outside of the MH period without an extreme change in the light color, while still firing all four of my vhos.
 
I like the look of the Hamiltons myself. When my halides are on they tend to drown out the T5 supplements. (I hate the color of the Ushio 10k's BTW). When I first put my 180 together I had to add a 2 ft fixture to the 4footer I already had. It came with a phoenix 14K. I liked the look of the Hamilton's better. But I'm a blue guy. I'm not sure if that would affect the growth all that much. Not to mention, I already have 2 new Hamiltons.

I like to buy 1 bulb every 2 months or so, so as not to take the 3 bulb hit. Perhaps this time I'll stock up on Phoenix and give them a try all by themselves.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I'll revisit this in 6 months or so when I can register my own experienced opinion.

Thanks again,
Cully
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13048468#post13048468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Capt_Cully
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1440875

Relating this thread to mine.

Do you guys think the decline in PAR in my aging Ushio 10k's could be contributing to the Halmeda that's been popping up in my tank?

Reason I ask is because I had a NOTICEABLE increase in the green glass algae when I switched to the 10k's.

It could be Cully. As halides age and their phosphors burn, the PAR decreases, AND the color shifts. One of the things I always wish Sanjay did was spectral irradiance of 12+ month old halides so one could compare them to newer halides and see what the color shift was like. Cause if the bulb starts burning a little more red light, you can definitely encourage the growth of the usually shallow-water algaes
 
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