SYED's 200G Rimless Reef

[tahiriqbal]

Tahir,

I am bit confused...... i am Metal Halide guy.... It is very difficult for me to jump from MH to LEDs or T5.... but let see.

I have posted one another thread on Reef Two Reef and RC. see what the guys commenting about LEDs.

Quote 1:
Personally I have decided on LED for my tank, it is 36x24x22. As for PAR, you will have more then enough PAR to work with in certain areas of the tank, leaving you options for lower light areas in the tank.

I am planning on selective lighting. I will have areas in the tank for Light soaking creatures, and areas for Chalice corals as well. I am thinking either 2 AI Sol units or a Single Ecotech Radion to start with.

Quote 2:
I'd go and did go with AI Sol's super Blue. 2 of them. Tank dim are 40/26/26. I have more than enough light for a mostly sps tank. I have acros on the bottom that are growing and looking great.

Yesterday I found E-shine Cree Lighting system. I consider these LEDs are better in the market.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2092327

What you say????

Sallam Jilani,

Why fix when something isn't broke! Most of us here in the UK and North America are moving towards LEDs due to ever increasing high energy costs and few other reasons. From my understanding energy costs are comparatively quite low when compared to the UK and if I was you then I would just stick with MH and trust me I am pro LED man and have heavily invested my money and time in this new technology. If you are looking to have better control and wish to lit your tank to meet and suit your coral needs then I would highly recommend Illumina LED light from Vertex.
All the best

Tahir

 

[syedjilani]

Sallam Jilani,

Why fix when something isn't broke! Most of us here in the UK and North America are moving towards LEDs due to ever increasing high energy costs and few other reasons. From my understanding energy costs are comparatively quite low when compared to the UK and if I was you then I would just stick with MH and trust me I am pro LED man and have heavily invested my money and time in this new technology. If you are looking to have better control and wish to lit your tank to meet and suit your coral needs then I would highly recommend Illumina LED light from Vertex.
All the best

Tahir

Wa Alaikum Salam W.R.W.B,

Thair,

I checked.... quite expensive.:eek1:... being living in Saudi Arabia, electricity bill is not the issue. I was thinking to give little executive and modern look with my limited budget to my new built.... I can but I do not want to spend unnecessary money on lighting....

I am thinking and as you said "Stick with MH".... will be better choice.

After Studying and reviewing about LEDS in past few week, I am not satisfied with LED.. If you open your Bank account on LED than one can get what he/she is looking for, otherwise in limited budget can only think about that.

 

[syedjilani]

Based on my DIY experience with LEDs, I can tell you that 48 3W Crees on 200 gallon tank is going to be pretty dim. Light spread from this fixture is also not going to be that great. I would think that for a square tank like you have 1m x 1.2m you will probably need at least 2 or maybe 3 of these fixtures if you want to cover it evenly. Think of it this way in terms of brightness you need about 1W of LED per 2W or 3W of MH. Roughly. PAR may be higher in LEDs though.

Thank you pwreef for your valuable suggestion....

Based on my DIY experience with LEDs, I can tell you that 48 3W Crees on 200 gallon tank is going to be pretty dim.

This is what i am also think about this fixture.

Light spread from this fixture is also not going to be that great.

I hate the dark and not lighted area in the tank. Another thing, what I noticed after looking couple of youtube clips. LEDs generate a lot of shadow in the tank. If you have quite big or let say medium colony of corporation capricornis than forget to keep any single coral under it.

I would think that for a square tank like you have 1m x 1.2m you will probably need at least 2 or maybe 3 of these fixtures if you want to cover it evenly.

Yes... 100% right.... but what about the depth. Will the light will reach at the bottom? 70cm depth....
As you know most of us like to keep clams at the bottom of the tank... and you also know Clams need quite strong light.

Think of it this way in terms of brightness you need about 1W of LED per 2W or 3W of MH. Roughly. PAR may be higher in LEDs though.

Can you explore it little bit more.....

What I under stood is, LED is spot light it covers only limited area. On other hand MH has ability to cover big space.

 

[syedjilani]

Guys has anyone heard any thing about this led

http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_x_seri...uarium_light_48_inch_fixture?category_id=5086

Weej, Thanks for sharing....

 

[syedjilani]

cool setup would like to see some pic when it is rsetup and running.

Thanks you Clown99 and thanks for joining my thread.

Stay tuned... a lot more in on the way...

 

[pwreef]

What I under stood is, LED is spot light it covers only limited area. On other hand MH has ability to cover big space.

LEDs are point sources of light. Think of a very small flashlight. It can shine a narrow beam of light pretty far. As the light travels further and further away, the beam gets wider, because there is a reflector that tries to spread the beam from one point - the little tiny lightbulb. The LED emitter is very small. 1-2mm in size. Out of the box it has a lens that spreads its light to around 120 degrees, but that light power is pretty small, so you have to have many single LED emitters to combine their power and be able to light a large surface. Think of using 20 flashlights to shine in area and distribute your light over that area. That is essentially what LED fixture tries to do. So there are two approaches. Have a lot of LEDs close to each other and use a "reflector" to combine light from all of them. This reflector just tries to contain the wide 120" beam a little to aim it towards your tank. Then your light beam is wide, but will not reach deep into the tank because the light power is spread out. This is basically the Ecotech Radion. It has no lenses that concentrate the light. Then other fixtures like AI Sol or that Chinese one you found use 60-90 degree lenses. They produce narrower beams, but will reach deeper with more power because the light is concentrated. Like you noticed, since the light is concentrated like this, the shadows are more pronounced, than a MH where you have a very large (compared to 2mm LED) light source that you reflect with an even larger reflector. If you put MH and LED fixture in a fog you will see that MH beam starts at probably 30cm and widens out. LED will start at 1-2cm after the lens and then widen out. That is basically the theory of these lights. Hope this helps.

 

[Crazy_Beaver]

LEDs are point sources of light. Think of a very small flashlight. It can shine a narrow beam of light pretty far. As the light travels further and further away, the beam gets wider, because there is a reflector that tries to spread the beam from one point - the little tiny lightbulb. The LED emitter is very small. 1-2mm in size. Out of the box it has a lens that spreads its light to around 120 degrees, but that light power is pretty small, so you have to have many single LED emitters to combine their power and be able to light a large surface. Think of using 20 flashlights to shine in area and distribute your light over that area. That is essentially what LED fixture tries to do. So there are two approaches. Have a lot of LEDs close to each other and use a "reflector" to combine light from all of them. This reflector just tries to contain the wide 120" beam a little to aim it towards your tank. Then your light beam is wide, but will not reach deep into the tank because the light power is spread out. This is basically the Ecotech Radion. It has no lenses that concentrate the light. Then other fixtures like AI Sol or that Chinese one you found use 60-90 degree lenses. They produce narrower beams, but will reach deeper with more power because the light is concentrated. Like you noticed, since the light is concentrated like this, the shadows are more pronounced, than a MH where you have a very large (compared to 2mm LED) light source that you reflect with an even larger reflector. If you put MH and LED fixture in a fog you will see that MH beam starts at probably 30cm and widens out. LED will start at 1-2cm after the lens and then widen out. That is basically the theory of these lights. Hope this helps.

Perfect post!May i add that with good planning and the right amount of leds mounted in the right height a no shadow look can be achieved

 

[syedjilani]

LEDs are point sources of light. Think of a very small flashlight. It can shine a narrow beam of light pretty far. As the light travels further and further away, the beam gets wider, because there is a reflector that tries to spread the beam from one point - the little tiny lightbulb. The LED emitter is very small. 1-2mm in size. Out of the box it has a lens that spreads its light to around 120 degrees, but that light power is pretty small, so you have to have many single LED emitters to combine their power and be able to light a large surface. Think of using 20 flashlights to shine in area and distribute your light over that area. That is essentially what LED fixture tries to do. So there are two approaches. Have a lot of LEDs close to each other and use a "reflector" to combine light from all of them. This reflector just tries to contain the wide 120" beam a little to aim it towards your tank. Then your light beam is wide, but will not reach deep into the tank because the light power is spread out. This is basically the Ecotech Radion. It has no lenses that concentrate the light. Then other fixtures like AI Sol or that Chinese one you found use 60-90 degree lenses. They produce narrower beams, but will reach deeper with more power because the light is concentrated. Like you noticed, since the light is concentrated like this, the shadows are more pronounced, than a MH where you have a very large (compared to 2mm LED) light source that you reflect with an even larger reflector. If you put MH and LED fixture in a fog you will see that MH beam starts at probably 30cm and widens out. LED will start at 1-2cm after the lens and then widen out. That is basically the theory of these lights. Hope this helps.

Thanks for valuable post....

So there are two approaches. Have a lot of LEDs close to each other and use a "reflector" to combine light from all of them.

means DIY......

 

[syedjilani]

Perfect post!May i add that with good planning and the right amount of leds mounted in the right height a no shadow look can be achieved

will it cause any changing in PAR reading?

 

[Crazy_Beaver]

the deeper we want the light to penetrate the water the smaller angle lens needs to be selected.Doing this will help you with the par readings on the bottom of the tank but is going to have an effect on the shadowing so you are going to need more sources of light.


What people do is use smaller angle lenses in the areas the need more par and bigger in the areas the just need coverage in order to eliminate the shadowing effect.

jilani I would suggest u to consider a DIY fixture. For good money you are going to have a fixture that perfectly fits your needs....

Led fixtures on the market today are way overpriced IMHO.

 

[WeeJ]

SYED - if your not DIY'er, there is an ebayer who does custom fixtures using CREE leds, im actually going to DIY one myself using Rapidleds- biggest advantage for us in the middle east is that if one led burns out or needs to replaced; its going to be easy. Plus u cud always add on more leds easily for colour or better par readings.

 

[syedjilani]

the deeper we want the light to penetrate the water the smaller angle lens needs to be selected.Doing this will help you with the par readings on the bottom of the tank but is going to have an effect on the shadowing so you are going to need more sources of light.


What people do is use smaller angle lenses in the areas the need more par and bigger in the areas the just need coverage in order to eliminate the shadowing effect.

jilani I would suggest u to consider a DIY fixture. For good money you are going to have a fixture that perfectly fits your needs....

Led fixtures on the market today are way overpriced IMHO.

DIY no way. I am very bad in Electrical :bigeyes: work...:fun5:

I decided to go for MH. I changed little plan.... you will see the mockup of new plan...

 

[syedjilani]

SYED - if your not DIY'er, there is an ebayer who does custom fixtures using CREE leds, im actually going to DIY one myself using Rapidleds- biggest advantage for us in the middle east is that if one led burns out or needs to replaced; its going to be easy. Plus u cud always add on more leds easily for colour or better par readings.

No man.....:bigeyes:..... electrical work.......talk something else....

I decided to go for MH 400W with Fuji purpal and Blue actanics...

 

[syedjilani]

So here it goes...... How I will utilize rest of the place under DT.....

<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=017.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/017.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

* 3 reserver for Alk, Cal and Mg.
* Frag Tank 90cm L x 50cm W x 30cm H. Almost 36 Gallon.
* Quarantine Tank 50cm L x 27cm W x 30cm H. Almont 11 Gallon.

This time I am not make RDSB (Remote Deep Sand Bed). DSB will be only in the DT. I reduced and try to compact filteration area and increase other area of the system.....

More detail are coming soon..... stay tune you will see a lot.....

I am not in hurry.... I want every thing must be pre planned. It better to make plann before taking money from pocket....

It was the last, where we were....

 

[syedjilani]

What will be under the DT. I got 150cm x 100cm let say 150cm x 90cm space, which I am considering to make Frag Tank 90cm x 50cm x 30cm almost 34 gallons, Quarantine Tank 50cm x 27cm x 30cm almost 10 gallons, Auto top off reserve almost 90cm x 74.5cm x 19.8cm almost 32 gallons RODI water for top off.

So here we go, what the plan I made, have a look.

Auto Top Off Reserve
<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=021.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/021.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

It will be Auto top off reserve almost 90cm x 74.5cm x 19.8cm almost 32 gallons RODI water for top off.

Tunze 3155.000 Osmolator Universal will do the auto top off job....

 

[syedjilani]

The other tank will tale place inside the stand is Randy Two Part . I am very much happy with this and got good result in my previous two mix reef tanks.

Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium reserve.

<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=022.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/022.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Bubble Magus Dosing Pump - Bubble Magus BM-T01 will do it's job and to full fill the chemical requirement of the tank.

 

[syedjilani]

still I got some more space inside the stand and Frag Tank 90cm x 50cm x 30cm almost 34 gallons will take place.

Frag Tank

<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=023.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/023.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

One filter sock will be at the corner of Frag tank to filter unwanted stuff from direct water from DT. i will post complete detailed mockup for each tank how plumbing, overflow and circulation will work.....


stay tuned...... :thumbsup:

 

[syedjilani]

So Quarantine Tank...... Here we go..

Quarantine Tank
<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=025.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/025.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I am guy with little different school of thought. My QT will not be totally isolated with whole system.... if required I will isolate the tank form whole system but normally it will run through same system and will all the time connected with Frag tank and sump.

Complete detail of QT ll here. how plumbing, overflow and circulation will work.....

 

[syedjilani]

Here all tanks inside the stand.....

Total system volume will be almost 300 plus gallon...:eek2:

<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=026.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/026.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[syedjilani]

Another view...

<a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/?action=view&current=027.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/syedjilani/SYEDs%20200G%20Rimless%20Reef/027.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>