T5 hood cooling system
- Thread starter Roger30
- Start date
Roger30
Premium Member
So the ice cap made the choice for me!! Got new bulbs today, been waiting all week for them!! Changed the bulbs, turned on the lights and the ice cap keep blowing the fuse!! It's been working fine since June!! Anyways, not going to try to fit it, going to get me a good ballast! Thanks for all the great info!! Keep you guys updated!
Roger30
Premium Member
http://www.ballastdiscount.com/fluorescent-t5-ballast/80-watt-t5/icn1s8035m.html
Is this a good one? If not where can I pick one up?
Is this a good one? If not where can I pick one up?
Big E
Premium Member
I've been running T5's on 660 for a good 8+ years. I've never had a single bulb burst or get holes in them. The bulbs will only last 6 months,(keeping spectrum) but that is about the same life as ATI ballasts on a DIY fixture with no fans.
My fixtures are open air with no fans. Running this way the ballasts stay cool and last for years. My first ballast was good 7 years old. If these ballasts are enclosed in a canopy they will over heat or if they are combined with halides they won't last as long.
The demise of these ballasts is greatly exaggerated as they have been re-introduced under Coralvue's name just within the last month or so because there is a demand.
The ballasts never went away as Coralvue just took over. They newer version is improved to fix any issues the old 660 may have had.
You have always been able to get a 660 fixed for $60 through Coralvue.
I get about 25% more par and of course the bulbs are brighter.
Having said all that you'll probably be better of with the ballasts used for the ATI's. I'm not sure of the brand but the ballast says HEP group on it. It's definitely the best matched ballast with their bulbs for color rendition versus the other "matched" ballasts.
My fixtures are open air with no fans. Running this way the ballasts stay cool and last for years. My first ballast was good 7 years old. If these ballasts are enclosed in a canopy they will over heat or if they are combined with halides they won't last as long.
The demise of these ballasts is greatly exaggerated as they have been re-introduced under Coralvue's name just within the last month or so because there is a demand.
The ballasts never went away as Coralvue just took over. They newer version is improved to fix any issues the old 660 may have had.
You have always been able to get a 660 fixed for $60 through Coralvue.
I get about 25% more par and of course the bulbs are brighter.
Having said all that you'll probably be better of with the ballasts used for the ATI's. I'm not sure of the brand but the ballast says HEP group on it. It's definitely the best matched ballast with their bulbs for color rendition versus the other "matched" ballasts.
uncleof6
Active member
That is the one. However, that is not what the current ballast looks like...
Last edited:
uncleof6
Active member
But with normally driven lamps, the lamps should last about a year give or take, with active cooling, while maintaining full output and spectrum. That means that you are replacing lamps twice as often as it should be necessary. That is not a good advertisement or recommendation for using a T12/VHO ballast to run T5/HO lamps is it.
The problem with the 660 and 430 running T5/HO lamps was sufficient enough in scope to force IceCap to take action to mitigate the problems.
The problem is not with the ballast. The IceCap ballasts were always quality ballasts, with a rediculous price tag albeit...
The ballasts did not suffer a 'demise,' the company making them went under, and there is no exaggeration about it. The company went under because they refused to update their technology, and they were re-branding low-quality equipment, selling it at a premium price. CoralVue is trying to piggyback off the IceCap name, and are pushing the marketing hype.
Being in demand, has no relevance on whether or not the ballasts should be used to run T5/HO, whether or not it is safe to do so, nor whether or not folks will have problems in T5/HO setups. There is a demand for miracle mud, but that does not make it any less of a hoax. This only demonstrates that the aquarium hobby is driven by marketing hype.
The ballasts did not have any issues, but they did go away as production was suspended, when IceCap went under. The situation was they were T12/VHO ballasts improperly used to run T5/HO lamps. The ballasts currently being marketed by CoralVue, still T12/VHO ballasts, are not appropriate for running T5/HO lamps.
Well, someone had to service them...
This is where it gets confusing. Since the spikes in the photosynthetic curve (blue/red) do not match the spikes in what is considered "bright" light as preceived by the human eye (green/yellow) high par lamps will be "dimmer" as preceived by the human eye. What your observation shows is the par increase by "overdriving" the lamps, is in the Green/Yellow portion of the light spectrum e.g. middle of the spectrum not in the blue (high energey) and red (low energey) portions of the spectrum, where the photosynthetic response would be the greatest.
Not necessarily. Although an arqument can be made that since T5/HO is a European technology, European ballasts may be closer to the specifications of the T5/HO technology, as was the case with many Metal Halide lamps, for which there was never an ANSI standard, and matching the MH lamps, with ANSI standard ballasts was a bit of a problem. The ATI Powermodule (prior to addition of LEDs) was the top of the pile fixutre, but there was more to it than the ballasts: Very high quality reflectors, very high quality lamps, and very efficient active cooling. That said, you can hardly go wrong using ballasts provided by ATI. However, if the rest is not up to "par" it is not going to make any difference.
**********************************************************
IceCap was marketing single lamp reflectors, and these reflectors were excellent. Topped only by those that Aquactinics are marketing, and the "difference" being in the width (Aquactinics being narrower.)
As far as the 660 and the obsession with overdriving T5 goes, the most stunning displays I have seen (outside large public aquariums and the natural reef) have been under normally driven T5/HO lighting. Metal Halide running neck and neck, but LED does not even fall into the "also ran" category yet... having said that, I have seen displays running with T8/T12VHO that put everything else to shame. (See GARF.) The conclusion can be made, that is is not all about the lighting, and the obsession with overdriving, is just that: an obsession, and there is a lot more to this than the lighting.
Roger30
Premium Member
Where do you find them? I can't fine a two bulb one
uncleof6
Active member
You can obtain them from a local electrical supply, not home depot or other such big box stores. A local electrical supply is a supplier that supplies electrical contractors. Yes they will sell to you.
I don't believe that Advance manufactures a two lamp 80 watt ballast for T5/HO either...(I have their catalog) I don't think any of the major manufacturers do. I do not have an explanation for that either, other than 80watt is not very popular, even within the aquarium hobby. Within the hobby, the unpopularity has been due to the rather limited selection available in 80 watt lamps.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Out of curiosity I am looking around for parts to DIY an 8X39w T5 set up. I'm daunted by the ballasts part.. do they make a 6-bulb one, or should I do two 4-bulb ballasts like this: http://www.ballastdiscount.com/fluorescent-t5-ballast/54-watt-t5/4-lamp-f54t5/hcn4s5490c2lsg35i.html (Except that's a 54w.. I can't find 39w)
uncleof6
Active member
There are no 6 lamp ballasts. Why that is, who knows, but there aren't. If you are looking for a 8 lamp set up, why on earth would you want a 6 lamp ballast anyway? The most versatile setup would be four 2-lamp ballasts. (Fluorescent tubes are not bulbs, they are lamps... a bulb is is incandescent as in light bulb...) Advance ballast numbers are easy to figure out, ICN2S39****** is a two lamp, 39 watt ballast, ICN4S54***** is a 4 lamp 54 watt ballast, so forth and so on...Same would apply to HCN series T5 ballasts...however, since the line input voltage is 347 - 480 volts (3-phase) you won't be using one of those, rather ballasts in the ICN series.....which are 120/240 volt and/or 120/208 (3-pahse,) and very commonly 277 volt (3 - phase,) for commercial occupancies.
About this time, I generally put forth some safety warnings. The high voltage output of ballasts can kill you and depending on the topology of the circuit, a GFCI will not trip and save your life. As with anything, if you do not know what you are doing, and are not familiar with the parts, techniques, and safety precautions, you should not be doing this sort of DIY, and should seek the assistance of a licensed electrician.
Big E
Premium Member
uncleof6,
Instead of going tit for tat with you I'm going to say we disagree on just about everything but Ice Cap not innovating and the cooling component.
I don't care about using more bulbs because I have no problem selling a few frags to offset cost and the amount of satisfaction I get from the colors the overdriven bulbs pull out of SPS makes it well worth it to me.
The overdriven T5s are the best I've seen in person compared to any light out there. I don't recommend them as most people want finished fixtures that look nice and ATI builds a nice fixture.
From my personal comparisons the ATI ballasts do a nice job, so that's why I recommended them as an alternative. I have no experience with the other ballasts
When something comes along that give me better colors than a 660, I'll change. Plenty of pics here--
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142&page=6
I've done par readings of the ATI ballast driven bulbs and the 660 driven bulbs and I get consistent par readings that are at least 30% more. I went back to my notes so my earlier stated 25% was off.
In this link they say 40% brighter.....it's not a direct reference to par......they may mean visually. There is also a nice link on that page of a PDF file with well laid out wiring instructions and info.
http://www.marinedepot.com/CoralVue...m_Ballasts-CoralVue-CV1613-FILTACBAFL-vi.html
Instead of going tit for tat with you I'm going to say we disagree on just about everything but Ice Cap not innovating and the cooling component.
I don't care about using more bulbs because I have no problem selling a few frags to offset cost and the amount of satisfaction I get from the colors the overdriven bulbs pull out of SPS makes it well worth it to me.
The overdriven T5s are the best I've seen in person compared to any light out there. I don't recommend them as most people want finished fixtures that look nice and ATI builds a nice fixture.
From my personal comparisons the ATI ballasts do a nice job, so that's why I recommended them as an alternative. I have no experience with the other ballasts
When something comes along that give me better colors than a 660, I'll change. Plenty of pics here--
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2197142&page=6
I've done par readings of the ATI ballast driven bulbs and the 660 driven bulbs and I get consistent par readings that are at least 30% more. I went back to my notes so my earlier stated 25% was off.
In this link they say 40% brighter.....it's not a direct reference to par......they may mean visually. There is also a nice link on that page of a PDF file with well laid out wiring instructions and info.
http://www.marinedepot.com/CoralVue...m_Ballasts-CoralVue-CV1613-FILTACBAFL-vi.html
Last edited:
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Thanks for the info!
I have wired a 4-bulb T5 in 2007, so it's been a while, and I'm pretty handy. I wanted a 6-bulb ballast more out of convenience TBH, but I figured something was up when I didn't see it around.
Thanks again, I'm still considering going the DIY route. I have two used items I am looking at (A Tek elite 6-bulb fixture and an ATI 8-bulb that needs some work). It's for my 100G Half-Cylinder shallow (18") Montipora Digitata specific tank. My current halides (Using bell pendants that have no reflectors) just barely gave me the 150 PAR I was seeking... at the top of the tank (I understand it's not the end-all-be-all measurement, but its what I have)... and I am still lack full confidence in LEDs. It's why I've turned my head towards full T5's.
uncleof6
Active member
Before going any further, the only thing you can disagree with are opinions, and the only opinion I have brought into the discussion is this:
"As far as the 660 and the obsession with overdriving T5 goes, the most stunning displays I have seen (outside large public aquariums and the natural reef) have been under normally driven T5/HO lighting. Metal Halide running neck and neck, but LED does not even fall into the "also ran" category yet... having said that, I have seen displays running with T8/T12VHO that put everything else to shame. (See GARF.) The conclusion can be made, that is is not all about the lighting, and the obsession with overdriving, is just that: an obsession, and there is a lot more to this than the lighting."
Despite anything else, the fact is, and it cannot be denied is that it is improper to run T5/HO lamps on T12/VHO ballasts. It cannot be denied that this practice has caused problems as far as safety, and longevity are concerned. This is not a debatable subject. Such practices are not condoned by the NEC, which has no jurisdiction over aquarium lighting, nor is it condoned by Underwriters Laboratories, whose standards, and requirements for listing, have no teeth in the U.S. This needs to change, but that is a different topic.
It really does not matter how many wiring diagrams you find (that come from within the aquarium hobby and hobby suppliers.) The people doing this sort of thing, are taking advantage of the hobbyist's general lack of knowledge concerning these topics. They also take advantage of the poorly defined, and generally very inaccurate lighting level guidelines for keeping the marine critters that do have a dependance on lighting levels, (usually higher than necessary.) In other words, marketing hype...
Normally driven T5/HO lamps: The look is due to 1 too many "white" lamps, and partially due to the exposure. But the image speaks for itself.
Examples from the GRAF website using the IceCap 660 ballast in the proper manner with 72" T12/VHO lamps:
In short, it is totally unnecessary to run lamps outside of their design specifications. Improper current limiting (or failure of the current limiting circuitry) is the reason for catastrophic lamp failure that can spread glass shards across the room. Just because some folks decide to overdrive their lamps, and have not had a catastrophic failure, does not mean it can't or won't happen.
If you have a 660 ballast, seems to me rather than toss the ballast for T5/HO ballasts, is why not get some URI T12/VHO lamps and get busy? That makes infinitately more sense than continuing these silly this or that debates...this endeavor really isn't all about the lighting, it is about the water quality, and the skill of the hobbyist.
Big E
Premium Member
Lol...........I offered up my experiences to the OP and that's all. I mentioned in both my posts I recommend the ATI ballasts and fixtures to people. I could care less about getting into a meaningless debate with you.
Btw.....showing a few softie tanks isn't going to help your cause.
Why don't you go over to the halide threads and lecture them about overdriving 250w & 400w halides. People have been doing that for 14+ years.
Btw.....showing a few softie tanks isn't going to help your cause.
Why don't you go over to the halide threads and lecture them about overdriving 250w & 400w halides. People have been doing that for 14+ years.
Last edited:
uncleof6
Active member
People doing something does not make it safe. It merely means that people are doing it...I do not have a cause other than solid correct information.
Similar threads
