T5's, LED or metal halides for SPS color and growth???

[Scoobysnack77]

I have a 75 gallon sps dominated reef tank and im upgrading to a 125 or a 150 gallon in a few months. Im torn as to what lighting to go with on my new tank. So far I've tried the aqua illumination vegas and i returned them cuz they were too spotty and left a lot of dim spots in the tank. and now I'm using 2X 250 watt metal halide reef brite pendants with blue XHO LED's in the hood. Bulb wise I'm running reef brite's twin arc 20k bulbs. And so far neither fixtures have given me the fluorescent colors I'm looking for in my SPS's. Im thinking of trying Radium 20k bulbs but i was told i should use HQI M80 ballasts to get the best results with the radium bulb. So far I've liked what I've seen from t5 fixtures but i don't know much about them. Should i go FULL t5 with my new tank or should i stick with metal halides? or should i try to find a fixture that has both metal halide and t5's in them? can anyone recommend a good brand of t5/metal halide fixtures i can look into?

 

[Fphipps]

Kessil makes some great LEDs that I have heard nothing but good about. I have not personally tried them, but my local fish stores use them and tey get great color. I plan on switching to them in the next year.
You could do the halide and supplement with ATI blue plus bulbs. Great PAR and great color.
I was in this same boat when I upgraded from my 75 to a 125. I almost got rid of Rapid LED fixtures for ATI T5, since I have heard and seen great things about them. To me, the T5 give too much of "flat" look in the tank. I like the disco effect of the halide and LEDs

 

[Scoobysnack77]

Kessil makes some great LEDs that I have heard nothing but good about. I have not personally tried them, but my local fish stores use them and tey get great color. I plan on switching to them in the next year.
You could do the halide and supplement with ATI blue plus bulbs. Great PAR and great color.
I was in this same boat when I upgraded from my 75 to a 125. I almost got rid of Rapid LED fixtures for ATI T5, since I have heard and seen great things about them. To me, the T5 give too much of "flat" look in the tank. I like the disco effect of the halide and LEDs

well so far my metal halides and led fixtures haven't yielded any color to brag about with my sps. t5's are flat looking but they really do bring out the color in SPS. I'm so torn with which direction i should go with for lighting. I've already spent tons of money experimenting.i first tried AI VEGAS and returned them then i went from 2X 175 metal halide 14k bulbs to 20k bulbs. then i upgraded to 2x 250 watt metal halide 20k bulbs. now I'm thinking of getting the giesemann 46' metal halide/t5 fixture or the new radion pros. I'm sick of buying lights lol

 

[d2mini]

The best IMHO is a combo of mh/t5.
As good as some LED fixtures are becoming, there isn't a single LED unit that can match that combo for what you are looking for.
And I was never a fan of just T5. Too flat/shadowless for me.

 

[jda]

Do you want DE or SE bulbs?

If you are down with DE, then get an AquaMedic or Giesmann Fixture.

Here is an example that comes with M80 ballasts (the site says no, but they do):
http://www.aqua-medic.com/product/ocean-light-plus-3x250w-2x80w-t5/

You can get these without T5 too - I have the ones without T5 since I don't get much out of them.

 

[tangtang clown]

I have Chinese made LED fixtures on my 125 and the color and growth has been awesome. I love my previous MH/t5 combo, but after switching, I won't look back.

Good luck in making your decision. I know these big switching can be nerve racking.

 

[Reefvet]

I'm buying a new car soon. Should I buy Michelin or Pirelli tires ?

It's just as subjective as will be the answers you'll get.

 

[Bpb]

Do you want DE or SE bulbs?

If you are down with DE, then get an AquaMedic or Giesmann Fixture.

Here is an example that comes with M80 ballasts (the site says no, but they do):
http://www.aqua-medic.com/product/ocean-light-plus-3x250w-2x80w-t5/

You can get these without T5 too - I have the ones without T5 since I don't get much out of them.

I thought those ballasts were discontinued and unavailable? For the 2x250 watt fixture, if that included two M80 ballasts with it as well for only $379 that's a steal even if the reflectors are moderate at best.

 

[PrangeWay]

I'd find a MH/T5 fixture, a few companies still make them (Hamilton works if you have a hood and fish room aka they are noisy and ugly, but effective) if you want what is probably the best independent of operating costs.

ATI and Pacific Sun both make LED/T5 fixtures that "may" work, I won't say it will for another year with my tank for firsthand experience. But you of course get the toys (for you not the corals) like clouds, seasons, better dawn/dusk, moon, etc.

Honestly I'd have never gone MH/LED. Combining one point light source, with a second even more pointy point light source will add a lot of difficulty in configuration optimization.


PW

 

[jda]

I thought those ballasts were discontinued and unavailable? For the 2x250 watt fixture, if that included two M80 ballasts with it as well for only $379 that's a steal even if the reflectors are moderate at best.

You can call them and ask the scoop - they are nice guys. Here is what I remember... the M80s were not available for individual sale since they were running out from selling so many. The fixtures still come with them and they are real M80 with a fan in a box with a switch. ...so much for nobody wanting MH anymore when suppliers run out of ballasts.

I use AquaMedic DE fixtures and the reflectors are both awesome and not-so-good at the same time. They are awesome at getting light in the tank. They are not so good at spreading it like a 24" wide and 10" deep reflector would. They really penetrate, but I would not go more than 24" front-to-back with one. This is the tradeoff for using the fixture/pendants which I live with.

 

[Scoobysnack77]

Do you want DE or SE bulbs?

If you are down with DE, then get an AquaMedic or Giesmann Fixture.

Here is an example that comes with M80 ballasts (the site says no, but they do):
http://www.aqua-medic.com/product/ocean-light-plus-3x250w-2x80w-t5/

You can get these without T5 too - I have the ones without T5 since I don't get much out of them.

i just saw the giesmann makes a unit called the spectra which is a SE metal halide fixture with t5's and it can run 250 watt radiums. the aqua medic u sent is 3 x 250 watt which would be perfect for the 125 gallon i was goin to get. but are the t5's that come with it gonna have much of an impact due to the fact that it has only 2x 80 t5 slots.

 

[jda]

You won't need any T5s if you pick some solid MH bulbs, except for maybe dusk/dawn... in which case 2x80 is fine. You won't hardly be able to tell that the T5 are on if the MH are on too.

14K phoenix on the DE side or 20K radium on the SE side don't need any supplementation at all.

Giesmann makes NICE stuff. The reflectors in the spectra are small like the DE reflectors in other units, but that is the tradeoff - spread for fixture size. They still get a TON of light in the tank. I like hanging fixtures since it keeps the heat WAY down.

 

[Scoobysnack77]

I have Chinese made LED fixtures on my 125 and the color and growth has been awesome. I love my previous MH/t5 combo, but after switching, I won't look back.

Good luck in making your decision. I know these big switching can be nerve racking.

yea i used to have LED's (AI VEGA's) and it looked to me that the lights themselves gave the coral colors that weren't accurate. with SPS i think their natural color pigment is better than the colors you get from actinic LED lighting. thats why the t5's and 20k radiums(metal halide) have caught my interest.i think I'm zeroing in on the giesmann spectra . a lot of people have been telling me to get the new radions but I'm still skeptical of LEDS. pretty colors for lps but they take away the true color of SPS in my opinion. they do put on one hell of an artificial show though!

 

[Scoobysnack77]

You won't need any T5s if you pick some solid MH bulbs, except for maybe dusk/dawn... in which case 2x80 is fine. You won't hardly be able to tell that the T5 are on if the MH are on too.

14K phoenix on the DE side or 20K radium on the SE side don't need any supplementation at all.

Giesmann makes NICE stuff. The reflectors in the spectra are small like the DE reflectors in other units, but that is the tradeoff - spread for fixture size. They still get a TON of light in the tank. I like hanging fixtures since it keeps the heat WAY down.

Yea, ill probably use the t5's for antinics or dusk or dawn. i was goin to just buy the Aqua medic HQI M80 ballasts to run my radium bulbs cuz i heard they kick ***! but they are hard to find and i spoke with aqua medic today and they said they have a new HQI m80 ballast that coming out soon that will take over the metal halide market due to the new technology that will push the radium bulbs even further.

 

[jda]

Based on the other posts on this thread about your past experiences with lighting, do you want to be on the bleeding edge of new anything?

How does anybody know what the new ballasts will be? M80 is a ANSI specification. How are they changing it? Who knows what 20K radiums will look like with more pushing... could be worse, could be better.

I might suggest that you just get some solid existing stuff that works awesome.

 

[Urchinhead]

The question in my mind is how much do you want to spend?

I say that because I have been in the same place you are. I am conservative by nature so the LED's to me show promise but are not quite there yet. I have also used T5's and MH. And lastly I would rather spend the money once and spend more of it than spend less only to have to spend it again (and sometimes again and again and again) on upgrades or other options.

On my last tank I had MH and went to T5. Reason was spectrum diversity. I couldn't get it effectively with the MH. What I lost was shimmer. What I gained from that spectrum diversity was increased growth and coloration of corals. There were other factors as well but lighting does make up a major part of that. LEDs were not an option at the time. I used a 6 bulb ATI Powermodule.

I am in the planning and equipment acquisition stages of standing up a new tank. I looked very carefully at the LED options available but the cost/benefit ratio compared to T5's wasn't there. Even factoring bulb replacement and energy savings since known and proven coral growth and coloration was the key criteria.

I firmly believe we are very close with LEDs stand alone with no supplementation but not close enough for me. And if I have to supplement why bother spending for two fixtures of two different types when I can go with one and get the results I want? So I will go with ATI again.

And here is where my opening question in the beginning comes in. ATI is a known quantity and proven leader in the T5 space. They have a new Powermodule that has LED supplementation. It is very expensive but will give you what you are looking for if you must have LED and T5 but still want the best you can get. If you can live without LED then the Sunpower is a very strong option and will give you much greater flexibility in spectrum choice than MH.

 

[Scoobysnack77]

Based on the other posts on this thread about your past experiences with lighting, do you want to be on the bleeding edge of new anything?

How does anybody know what the new ballasts will be? M80 is a ANSI specification. How are they changing it? Who knows what 20K radiums will look like with more pushing... could be worse, could be better.

I might suggest that you just get some solid existing stuff that works awesome.

well I've tried everything except t5's so far and from looking at most of the tanks of the month most of them are grown using t5 and metal halide. I'm probably going to try to find a good SE metal halide and t5 fixture so i can benefit from both. i see people spending 750 bucks on 1 LED radion fixture and i can't see why since i know quite a few reefers that have the radions and they noted that they lost color in a few of their SPS's in the switch from metal halides to LED. but they bought em anyway cuz they got sucked into the new trend and wanted to be on the bleeding edge like u said. i have no interest in that. i just want to see the natural fluorescent colors of my SPS corals without the light show

 

[Scoobysnack77]

The question in my mind is how much do you want to spend?

I say that because I have been in the same place you are. I am conservative by nature so the LED's to me show promise but are not quite there yet. I have also used T5's and MH. And lastly I would rather spend the money once and spend more of it than spend less only to have to spend it again (and sometimes again and again and again) on upgrades or other options.

On my last tank I had MH and went to T5. Reason was spectrum diversity. I couldn't get it effectively with the MH. What I lost was shimmer. What I gained from that spectrum diversity was increased growth and coloration of corals. There were other factors as well but lighting does make up a major part of that. LEDs were not an option at the time. I used a 6 bulb ATI Powermodule.

I am in the planning and equipment acquisition stages of standing up a new tank. I looked very carefully at the LED options available but the cost/benefit ratio compared to T5's wasn't there. Even factoring bulb replacement and energy savings since known and proven coral growth and coloration was the key criteria.

I firmly believe we are very close with LEDs stand alone with no supplementation but not close enough for me. And if I have to supplement why bother spending for two fixtures of two different types when I can go with one and get the results I want? So I will go with ATI again.

And here is where my opening question in the beginning comes in. ATI is a known quantity and proven leader in the T5 space. They have a new Powermodule that has LED supplementation. It is very expensive but will give you what you are looking for if you must have LED and T5 but still want the best you can get. If you can live without LED then the Sunpower is a very strong option and will give you much greater flexibility in spectrum choice than MH.

Well like u said i don't want to spend money over and over again. ill spend the big bucks and be done with it. i do love the color T5's produce and i do love the shimmer that LED's and metal halide give. So would you recommend me got with a metal halide/t5 fixture or just get a really good ATI T5 fixture with the LED's in it? Like i said ill spend the money but i just want the TRUE fluorescent colors of my SPS's to come out without the LED light show. I don't really like LED's on SPS's. I feel it looks fake. Now i do like what LED's do to LPS's. The glow is cool. But if you look at most of the tanks of the month they are mostly using T5's and sometimes metal halide.

 

[gmax111]

I had radiums for several years. Now with my new setup I'm researching LEDs but I hear that comment that the colors look artificial all too often.

I really loved my radiums but it's got me worried about the LED's color and their cost factor.
IMO The colors under radiums were absolutely amazing.

 

[Scoobysnack77]

I had radiums for several years. Now with my new setup I'm researching LEDs but I hear that comment that the colors look artificial all too often.

I really loved my radiums but it's got me worried about the LED's color and their cost factor.
IMO The colors under radiums were absolutely amazing.

so why switch if your happy? I've seen radions in action and it looks like a light show to me. Their great for making your LPS's look like a black light poster at Spencers gifts,lol. But in my opinion they completely mask the beautiful colors SPS corals have naturally