tank move , coral decline, major bristle worms! Help

[goulding.c]

Ok so 2 years ago , I notice my hammer corals declining in my 125 slowly. I used to take them to lfs all the time to trade in. One year ago we started major house renovation, which includes a new 180 rimless tank. Yippy! So we moved all levt over rock and coral down into the big 100 gallon horse water tub that was the equipment sump, which is still hooked to 75 gallon fuge. I upgraded lights imediatley to the giant eco tech marine lights so things got used to new lights. Well the house rebuild has taken a long time 10 months. Now I am a month away from plumbing new tank into the system and move in. BUT, my corals have continued to decline to a small fraction of what I used to have, only my candy coral and hammer, mushroom are doing great. I even hired a good friend that his business is fish tanks. for 6 months he helped me get my water chemistry perfect, better regular maintenance. Yesterday we both came to the conclusion something is very wrong. We picked up a soft ball size pc of hammer with only 2 live heads on it, and some very fresh dead ones. The pc had 100s of pink headed bristle worms! Very nasty. These have been in my fuge for years, but now every where! I did have a lfs say 2 years ago they thought my trade ins had black worms but I couldn't even see them in the milky mix. I bought the coral iodine dip from sea chem. We discussed today taking out only pcs with live coral, and dipping them before new tank, then taking the giant pile of old rubble rock and dead coral and either trashing it. or boiling it. Any advice? Should I scrap the whole system, start new? I only have one clown fish that is now 18 years old. I will try to post pics of the worms, All about one inch long, white bristles, pink heads.
Thank You!

 

[goulding.c]

sorry the lfs said I might have black BUGS (Not worms) I couldn't even see them in the milky dip. They still took corals and gave me credit though

 

[goulding.c]

 

[goulding.c]

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

With all that my decision would be to start anew.
If you want live rock Tampa Bay saltwater is the way to go.
You just have to watch out for hitchhikers like Mantis Shrimp.

 

[JWClark]

Yeah, bristle worms are not the problem--they are eating the decaying flesh. Looking at the dead head pic it looks like you have a huge vermetid snail problem. My guess would be that their feeding mucus irritated the corals to the point that they "gave up".

Starting over would be the way to go if it is that. And if you move corals I'd do close examinations and pick offs for vermetids on the skeletal base before moving--preferably over a month or so to ensure you got them all.

 

[goulding.c]

Thank You for the information!!

I am going to look into the snail issue. Never heard of that one.

 

[goulding.c]

so are the vermatids, all the tiny tubes I see sticking up from rock when I look down into tub/tank?? If so, I am in big trouble
I thought these where little tube worms
If this is the case I might as well scrap all rock except ones with coral and try to pick the tubes off them before new tank.

 

[Diana A]

If you pick off the vermetid snail tubes you will leave the worm behind. I took a lighter and burned each one. If you only had a few tubes, one could glue the tube opening closed. Just remember to never boil or oven bake rocks.

If you decide to start over, just bleach your rocks and it will kill all the life on it. You will need to sterilize your equipment and pvc to get rid of all the vermetid snails in your system

 

[goulding.c]

D, your right I do remember hearing not to boil rock, it explodes or something????

I have various torch equipment, would pulling each rock out and flaming the tubes with a small butane torch work? I could go bigger, dump all rock out onto floor and flame it with weed burner torch , then dump back into tank.

My big question is: If my new setup I only want a small rock pile in center of tank to put corals on, and have lots of fish space, then I have way to much rock. should I leave it in sump or fuge?

I could trash the extra rock easily and forget it, Should I pull out all rock in fuge also? Then hook new tank up to system, but add new clean sterile rock for my center rock pile?? Or will these snail tube worm looking things prevail?

 

[JWClark]

You really need to completely reboot. The snails are most likely in the plumbing, overflow, etc.

When I rebooted I just did a scrub in fresh water and let the rocks dry in the sun for a week. Used the die off to re-cycle the tank. I fragged all corals and kept a few LPS. I cut all bases off and examined for vermetids every week. I recently lost a hammer head and found three vermetids on the colony that made it through the gauntlet this morning when the colony was closed up. Though I am not sure if they were alive--but I removed anyway. They hitchhike on snails big time too.

Also, I let the rest of the tank sit completely dry for two weeks or so--and cleaned all pumps and ensured no water in any line. This seems to have been enough to kill them.

Also, when picking off I scape the whole thing off and scrape some more until there is just white. Then rinse if water that will be thrown out. I like the burning idea!

 

[goulding.c]

jw, I think your right on re boot, it should be pretty easy to do, I already have to add all new plumbing to new tank. I can pull the corals I have left and put in a 20 gallon with my one clown, then I can dump all the rock outside and let it dry out. I think most I will through away. I would like to understand if what I am seeing are the vermatid snails. Can anyone give me a better idea?? I looked online for pics, but I don't see anything like that. Unless these tiny tube feather duster things are them??

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Yep, tiny tube feather worms.
Tubes are VERY SHARP & will cut fingers easily.
NO results on a way to get rid of them yet.

 

[JWClark]

Tiny tube feather dusters probably refer to spirobid worms—those are harmless. They make a little spiral shell that does not have a long top tube sticking up. And are only a mm or two in size.

Stir up debris and watch for mucus strings coming from the tubes. This mucus will trap debris, making it easier to see. This will confirm it. Google vermetid snails feeding and you should find some good videos.

 

[goulding.c]

So I looked on line at these snail videos. I don't think what I have are these mucus monsters.

I see 2 things on all my rock and corals.
1. These short tubes attached to rock along the side (Not sticking up from rock) these have a tiny red feather duster head that pops in out out quickly. They are on everything.
2. These other short tubes that stick out from rock and have a tiny bright white tip, they stick out about a half inch and break away when I pick up rock.

I do not see the giant snail tube that a guy used bull nose pliers to cut off on internet video. called vermi snail

 

[JWClark]

# 2 looks like the vermetids. They come in all sizes. The most common I have seen are about 0.5 cm in size or less.

When you pick up rock do they just fall off or break off when you push on them? If they are not like a hard shell then not vermetids. I sure hope not but the tubes in your first pic sure look like them to me. Perhaps you had a bloom and they have died back already.

Also, some vermetids seem to not cause much harm while others irritate the heck out of corals with their slime feeding.

Possible the LPS are dying due to alk swings or something too. Have you been monitoring water parameters and dosing accordingly?

 

[goulding.c]

jw , when I pick up the rock, the little tubes are stiff to the touch but break away very easy. For the new tank, I was going to just do a small rock pile using some of the biggest live rocks I had in old. These rocks I put outside to dry off when I broke down the system for the remodel. I am wondering if I use these and just cut away only the live coral heads and place them into the new setup, if I will be ok. All the rest of rock in my tub you see in pics, I could just trash to reduce populations.
That way I am not going through a major new break in. Any thoughts???
Thank You

 

[WVfishguy]

I've had vermitids in tanks for 30 years and have never seen them cause damage, except to me.

My brother, who has never had an aquarium, once asked me why I always have cuts all over my hands. I had no idea how to explain how vermitids snail shells cut me up so badly.

Both vermitids and bristle worms are feeding off the decay of your dying system. They did not cause the problem, they are a result of the problem.

 

[JWClark]

Should be okay. Just keep a close watch on the moved heads. if they start to open less fully then it is possible there are some new vermetids irritating them.

Vermetids can most definitely cause die off of corals--that can be fact checked. They are suspended detritus feeders, not feeders of decaying flesh.

 

[Constantine]

I have a lot of Vermetid snails in my tank as well. I wouldn't call it a plague, but I'm sure a lot of reefers would. They are literally growing off the skeleton of my frogspawn. All the coral is doing just fine and shows no issues with them. I think they are pretty cool little guys.