The "How to go Barebottom thread."

[ezhoops]

ok didn't work, sorry just have to download it unless you can figure it out

 

[causeofhim]

Maybe I missed it somewhere but, I have a question. about cooking your liverock.

If you're cooking the liverock to kill the "bacteria and small animals", why do we spend top $ for "live" rock? It sounds as if Weatherman is suggesting we shouldn't use liverock in the first place. Is this true?

I am thinking along the lines of Mojoreef, and can understand if the rock has been sitting in a tank with a DSB and sitting under the sand. But, if you have rock that is not in the sand and part of your maintence is to blow the detrius from the rocks frequently, why would you want to kill the liverock?

 

[Ereefic]

Your not cooking rock to 'kill the bacteria and small animals', that is why your cooking it in heated, circulated salt water. By keeping it in the dark, your letting the bacteria work the crap out of the nooks and crannies. Dunking and swishing the rock and doing lots of water changes to keep the water clean and nutrients low.

That is how I see it anyways, but I could be wrong.

 

[SeanT]

We are NOT "cooking" live rock to kill anything.
(Though the demise of aiptasia, flatworms etc is a bonus).
Please read the first post carefully.
The "cooking" is to rid the rocks pores of built up phosphorous, which fuels algal growth.

 

[causeofhim]

Their little bodies are going to absorb nutrients, then die and sink to the bottom Ultimately, all the little critters will use up all, easily-available nutrients from the rock, and their populations will begin to drop. Fewer and fewer little bodies will mean less and less detritus to siphon out of your tub.

I understand now. Weatherman's statement confused me.

 

[just dave]

its not so much how much flow you can add as much as it is how well you have it designed

I agree with this as well. I don't use as much total flow as is often recommended and as many here do(not that there is anything wrong with doing so.). I instead use devices that create a lot of random( though it's never truly random) current patterns and timed pulses. Also,as you've pointed out, this is something that needs to be reevaluated as the system matures and corals get larger.

 

[causeofhim]

OK, I re-read everything and I have a couple of extra questions.

When I cook my rock, should I have a cleaning crew in there?

You state: During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week. How often does this need to be done after the first couple of weeks?

Do you need to use RO water to cook your rocks?

 

[MiddletonMark]

Yes, RO water is crucial for rock-cooking. As far as I get it, you want the water to be as low-nutrient as possible ... thus replacing it [or just making up a second tub, transferring rock after dunking].

I only cooked some of mine, just took longer for the tank to clean-up without cooking it all, IMO.

CauseofHim ... check Ereefic's BB at Sunday's meeting. If around Madtown, come check mine out. Seems like we do things slightly differently, yet I think we're both pretty successful with it.
Might be useful, if not you just get to flatter us by checking out our tanks

 

[Weatherman]

I understand now. Weatherman's statement confused me.

It has to do with the lifecycle of the critters. They are "born", live and die at a very fast rate, to be replaced by the next generation.

The lifecycle of bacteria is the fastest. That's why we want the bacteria to work for us.

What we are letting them do is reproduce, feed on organic material, die, and then remove their little bodies. Before they die, of course, they have reproduced to generate a whole bunch of additional copies of themselves. So, based on how much food is available, you may have more little critters or fewer little critters than you did before.

When you are all done, you will still have an abundant population of little critters, but they will have reached equilibrium with the new, lower, food supply.

 

[Mojoreef]

Thanks Weatherman, I do fully understand the concept of cooking LR and it does work very well. I have just never heard it used as a requirement before. For me I always just preached it when the rocks began to develop algae in a system where the nutrient were low. Anyway thats why I was trying to see if it was a conversion thing.
Most of my LR lasted with out issue for about 8 years before I had to deal with it cooking wise. To be honest I didnt have the patcience for the cooking process, I just took out the bad rocks and bioled them and then resseded them with good rock. It only took a day to deal with it and they were back to normal in a month or so. Now I am talking with LR that had been in a tank for a long time, not fresh LR.


thanks


Mike

 

[ezhoops]

any thoughts, suggestions on my set up?

 

[Bomber]

I just took out the bad rocks and bioled them and then resseded them with good rock. It only took a day to deal with it and they were back to normal in a month or so.
thanks
Mike

Mike, I still think that's a slower process. If you really "cook" them you're going to kill the bacteria that you need to mobilize, transport, and remove nutrients from the rock.
Then have to wait on those bacteria to get established again, to start the process.

Like waiting on a DSB to get established. Doesn't that take months sometimes.

 

[Mojoreef]

Mike, I still think that's a slower process. If you really "cook" them you're going to kill the bacteria that you need to mobilize, transport, and remove nutrients from the rock.

Yea I would say its as slow as regular dark cooking for sure. The bacteria do begin repopulating right away but I would assume the proper population levels wont get back to where they need to be for a couple of months at least. What it does for me is allow me to get my reef back up and running right away, aquascaping and coral replacement wise. Also being back in the tank the population levels come back alot quicker (because of the bioload) i place in the tank. Again remember this is just a percentage of the overall rock mass. Another good thing I like about it is that it makes a great seed surface for corraline algae and they purple up with in a week or so.
I have also taken out sinle rocks that were getting old and look nutrient loaded (shedding detritus like crasy, hold various algae types) and done a quick boil and then replace. Its always worked well for me so far, but again its a quick harsh method.

Mike

 

[SeanT]

I do fully understand the concept of cooking LR and it does work very well. I have just never heard it used as a requirement before.

So I have decided to share my experience and experiences on the way I perceive to be the safest (not necessarily easiest) way to go barebottom.

 

[SeanT]

any thoughts, suggestions on my set up?

Yes.
I would have your UV be part of your drain system and have it exit in front of your skimmers input.

 

[Bomber]

Also being back in the tank the population levels come back alot quicker (because of the bioload) i place in the tank.
Mike

I think the population would come back a lot sooner because in the process of actually boiling those rocks, you kill off what's alive that had those nutrients inside them, release a lot of nutrients that were bound, and all that free food creates a bacterial bloom.

Just like getting aquacluttered rock that's been shipped dry kills off stuff that dies, decomposes, and releases nutrients. Then you have to wait on all that stuff to decompose, bacterial levels to get reestablished - just like setting up a DSB, and then migrate it out of the rock.

 

[Mojoreef]

Just like getting aquacluttered rock that's been shipped dry kills off stuff that dies, decomposes, and releases nutrients. Then you have to wait on all that stuff to decompose, bacterial levels to get reestablished - just like setting up a DSB, and then migrate it out of the rock.

When it is boiling a very large amount of organics come out of the rocks, I would imagine through vapor transmission?? But you end up with a net skimning the crap out as it is boiling, after a few hours when you pull out the rock thier is alot of solids on the bottom of the pot also.
I dont think by any means I get all of it but I think I get most of it, from thier as you say its a re population and migration thing. I am not trying to tout this, just something I have done for years with sucess.


Mike

 

[mattrix]

Yes.
I would have your UV be part of your drain system and have it exit in front of your skimmers input.

In general, is it OK to have the UV on the drain system? I'm wondering if the UV would do better with some head pressure.

In a setup with multiple drains, I suppose it would be best to try feeding all drains through the UV?

 

[ezhoops]

In a setup with multiple drains, I suppose it would be best to try feeding all drains through the UV?

I really only use the one drain, the other is purely for power outage to prevent a flood.

In general, is it OK to have the UV on the drain system? I'm wondering if the UV would do better with some head pressure.

wouldn't the UV slow the pump pressure? (never used a UV before)

could you also recommend one?
thanks

What are your thougths on my flow? enough, too much, etc

 

[kewwlkat123]

Just taggin along...interesting thread nonetheless