The "How to go Barebottom thread."
- Thread starter SeanT
- Start date
causeofhim
New member
Good thread. Thanks
jsbzmcdaniel
New member
Sean,
Well done. I hope the mods put this thread as a "sticky"
Well done. I hope the mods put this thread as a "sticky"
Weatherman
New member
AeroD79 said:
That's the idea.
Also, since you will be removing a lot of dissolved, and particulate, organic material by your skimmer, a lot less will break down to a level where a lot of denitrification is necessary.
photobarry
New member
Weatherman said:
He means: "Is not necessary."
AeroD79 what you are doing with a BB sytem is to avoid as much biological break down as you can and just mechanically remove prior. The LR in a BB system beyond for looks is used more as a polisher as you will not be able to be 100% efficient.
Thier are many ways to keep your rocks off the bottom, the concept here is to just to try to keep areas where detritus can build up to a minimium. So a rack is effective, so is drilling acrlylic doweling legs, keeping the rock standing more on its points then on its flat spots.
Another thing to add is that its not si much how much flow you can add as much as it is how well you have it designed. Having multiple outputs will aloow for more areas of the tank to be covered and effective at keeping the detritus in the column. Randomizing the flow also greatly helps in getting it off the bottom. Your never going to be able to completely get it all up, so if ther are areas where detritus is going to build up try and make them easy to get (as in front of the tank) so you can simply sypon them up as part of your regular maintence schedule.
Another big one I find is that when keeping so much detritus in the column you will have more of it fall out onto the LR then you would in other systems, so make sure blowing off the rocks is part of your maintence also. A few minutes with a small powerhead works wonders.
Although ozone is not a requirement for a BB system (or any system really) IMO it is a very nice add. If for nothing else the clarity it gives the water greatly improves the amount of light photons your corals get. Also it eats up organics in most forms (particulate and dissolved) and when you think about all the partiulates that are going to be in the water column VS sitting in sand it can be worth its weight in gold.
Lastly is feeding. Keeping detritus in the water column now you are effectly feeding a vast majority of your life form with a high quality food (detritus enveloped in bacteria and other micro fuana) so if you are of the habit of feeding external sources of coral or duster food do some experimenting oon that as a value to your tanks health.
Mike
Thier are many ways to keep your rocks off the bottom, the concept here is to just to try to keep areas where detritus can build up to a minimium. So a rack is effective, so is drilling acrlylic doweling legs, keeping the rock standing more on its points then on its flat spots.
Another thing to add is that its not si much how much flow you can add as much as it is how well you have it designed. Having multiple outputs will aloow for more areas of the tank to be covered and effective at keeping the detritus in the column. Randomizing the flow also greatly helps in getting it off the bottom. Your never going to be able to completely get it all up, so if ther are areas where detritus is going to build up try and make them easy to get (as in front of the tank) so you can simply sypon them up as part of your regular maintence schedule.
Another big one I find is that when keeping so much detritus in the column you will have more of it fall out onto the LR then you would in other systems, so make sure blowing off the rocks is part of your maintence also. A few minutes with a small powerhead works wonders.
Although ozone is not a requirement for a BB system (or any system really) IMO it is a very nice add. If for nothing else the clarity it gives the water greatly improves the amount of light photons your corals get. Also it eats up organics in most forms (particulate and dissolved) and when you think about all the partiulates that are going to be in the water column VS sitting in sand it can be worth its weight in gold.
Lastly is feeding. Keeping detritus in the water column now you are effectly feeding a vast majority of your life form with a high quality food (detritus enveloped in bacteria and other micro fuana) so if you are of the habit of feeding external sources of coral or duster food do some experimenting oon that as a value to your tanks health.
Mike
AeroD79
New member
Thank you. My next tank plan on a 120gallon will employ a 4 way OM and a temporary sandless refigium with approximately 32x turnover with ozonizer few hours every morning and at night (depending on ORP)
Iam now considering racks to hang them on the water column. I have a 40gallon acrylic tank that i can use to keep my live stock as I cook the LRs.
Iam now considering racks to hang them on the water column. I have a 40gallon acrylic tank that i can use to keep my live stock as I cook the LRs.
photobarry
New member
brentp said:
Whew, that was a close one! LOL
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Great post Mike/Mojo, your points about flow [it's not how much it's what you do with it], detritus on rocks, location of detritus piles for siphoning ... dead on from what I've experienced.
I wouldn't have believed it, but I feel like my tank did better after I removed the large volume closed loop and put in a couple powerheads for better directed flow but half the volume.
I've added more flow since, mainly because when a deal on a 6060 comes by, you take it.
While I hate cords, IMO in a small tall tank like mine the directionality of powerheads is hard to get past without using PVC instead of LR. Different sized/shaped tank ... you may have a different answer to it than I do, or than others here do.
And the aquascaping works into this. I've personally removed rock [and likely will remove one or two more pieces] since having a stable BB tank ... with good results as the flow/detritus->overflow works better.
I sure don't claim to be an expert, just know what I've found being the happy caretaker of my tank in the last 13 months
I wouldn't have believed it, but I feel like my tank did better after I removed the large volume closed loop and put in a couple powerheads for better directed flow but half the volume.
I've added more flow since, mainly because when a deal on a 6060 comes by, you take it.
While I hate cords, IMO in a small tall tank like mine the directionality of powerheads is hard to get past without using PVC instead of LR. Different sized/shaped tank ... you may have a different answer to it than I do, or than others here do.
And the aquascaping works into this. I've personally removed rock [and likely will remove one or two more pieces] since having a stable BB tank ... with good results as the flow/detritus->overflow works better.
I sure don't claim to be an expert, just know what I've found being the happy caretaker of my tank in the last 13 months
Last edited:
Weatherman
New member
photobarry said:He means: "Is not necessary."
Thank you.
kellymm7149
New member
will aptasia survive the brew? i would hate to lose them fun aside will it kill them?
photobarry
New member
kellymm7149 said:
They shouldn't survive proper rock cooking. I cooked some rock for many months just to be sure they were all gone.
SeanT
Premium Member
I concur with Barry...aiptasia seem to be dependant on light...all mine that I had left (I had an efficient Pepp shrimp) died.kellymm7149 said:
I no longer have the shrimp and have no aiptasia.
So without reintroducing them...I should theoretically be aiptasia free forever.
Mark its more of a common sence approach when it comes to flow, no need to be an expert. As the tank ages you will find yourself removing corals and LR. As the corals form mature colonies thier stratagies for dominance become more apperent and its best to remoe the none dominant ones or they will eventually sucumb. Same applies to LR, as the corals mature more space will be required to allow the to grow out. Last september I had to remove about 400 lbs just to be able to keep the flow viable and allowfor more growing space.
Got a question for the LR cookers. Are you saying that all LR need to be cooked or that when changing over from rock that has been sitting on sand you need to??
Also was your reasoning that the rock was unable to shed and thus held its organics??
thanks
Mike
Got a question for the LR cookers. Are you saying that all LR need to be cooked or that when changing over from rock that has been sitting on sand you need to??
Also was your reasoning that the rock was unable to shed and thus held its organics??
thanks
Mike
ezhoops
New member
Ok, to answer the question on the last page, I have a aqua c urchin in sump skimmer, my sump is a 18 gal tall(basically a 10 gallon but much taller) as far a drains go, I currently use both my holes in my overflow as drains. one is the main drain (which empties into the sump) and other is the safety back up drain. I have a direct pvc pipe from my mag 9 which is in the sump to the main display which is my main source of flow.
My plan: (tell me your thoughts)
54 gal Bow front BB
upgrade Mag 9 to something less noisey and with more flow (suggestions please) I would prefer internal
Upgrade sump if necessary (currently aqua c urchin in sump)
place two 1100 seio's in tank (already purchased one)
cutting board on bottom
develop crate/ shelf system 2 sections (need help with design)
at this time I'm also going to start using eggcrate as opposed to my glass top (better light penetration)
might also be the time to switch to halides
My plan: (tell me your thoughts)
54 gal Bow front BB
upgrade Mag 9 to something less noisey and with more flow (suggestions please) I would prefer internal
Upgrade sump if necessary (currently aqua c urchin in sump)
place two 1100 seio's in tank (already purchased one)
cutting board on bottom
develop crate/ shelf system 2 sections (need help with design)
at this time I'm also going to start using eggcrate as opposed to my glass top (better light penetration)
might also be the time to switch to halides
bkwudzjeep
O|||||||O
Along with the aiptasia question.....would flatworms survive?
SeanT
Premium Member
Nope, not in my opinion.
Though I am not positive, I beleive they are somewhat beholden to light.
They always seem to appear in the most numbers with the lighs on.
Kind of like diatoms...I always found that weird.
But to be sure, you could always do a FW exit treatment in the cooking tubs.
Go extra strength...nothing much to kill in there after all.
Though I am not positive, I beleive they are somewhat beholden to light.
They always seem to appear in the most numbers with the lighs on.
Kind of like diatoms...I always found that weird.
But to be sure, you could always do a FW exit treatment in the cooking tubs.
Go extra strength...nothing much to kill in there after all.
Weatherman
New member
Mojoreef said:
I like to think of it in terms of establishing a new equilibriumââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
You start out with recently cured live rock, or rock, which has been sitting in a nutrient-rich tank for a long time. The rock contains a lot of organic material on it and in it.
Then, you move the rock to a nutrient-poor environment (like a cooking tub, where you have clean salt water, no light or food).
Since bacteria and small animals arenââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t going to find any nutrients in the water, or any other source in the tub, they are going to start using the nutrients on the rock for food. Their little bodies are going to absorb nutrients, then die and sink to the bottom. Or, they are going to release nutrients, which where bound to the rock, into the water. So, with each siphoning of detritus or water change, youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re exporting the nutrients they absorbed into their little bodies and exporting the nutrients they released into the water.
Ultimately, all the little critters will use up all, easily-available nutrients from the rock, and their populations will begin to drop. Fewer and fewer little bodies will mean less and less detritus to siphon out of your tub.
When you are done, you will have reached equilibrium again with relatively nutrient poor rock and relatively nutrient poor water.
