The Oceans pH Level Is Falling

[55semireef]

And on that note I am probably going to unsubscribe from this thread. I can't believe the utter arrogance of humanity. You're either on this side or you're on the other side... no one stands in the middle anymore? C'mon... no one is suggesting that we should completely stop using all electricity or fuels nor is anyone suggesting that we start using more. Obviously there ARE things we can change about our energy consumption. Why can't everyone agree that there is a middle ground we need to come to on this regardless of the findings of science?

Give me a break...many are in the middle. Many have mixed feelings on issues. For example I believe there is global warming but I don't think all of Earth is rising in temperature. And I also don't feel the need to take a 3 minute shower or never use gasoline again.

 

[dreaminmel]

Yes, I'm sure many are. And I did say that for the most part I have enjoyed this discussion and learned a lot. I just keep getting irritated at the occassional post by some people that seem to find it all a joke. And yeah, I still take 20 minute showers myself. =) I do, however, yell at the hubby when he takes something out of the fridge and walks away leaving the door open. :lol:

 

[Kalkbreath]

The NASA scientists are zero for three in predicting climate changes for the next twenty years,

Back in 1970s they forecast a cooling of the earth by one degree by 2000.( we all laughed and said thier crazy)

Then in early 1980s they started rubbing our noses in the colder weather as proof they were right about the ice covered future.

Then in the 1990s they said you know we were wrong , but its still not alright! This Suv driving cant be good , so it must be Global warming!

A complete turn around from cooling to warming.

All the data they worked on from 1958 to 1982 was *** backward and completely baseless. (they were sure that the earth had been cooling for 160 years mind you)

Now once again , the climate didnt quite live up to their expectations.

 

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886614#post7886614 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dreaminmel
Yes, I'm sure many are. And I did say that for the most part I have enjoyed this discussion and learned a lot. I just keep getting irritated at the occassional post by some people that seem to find it all a joke. And yeah, I still take 20 minute showers myself. =)

Those showers are addicting. Haha.

However, 120 years later, nobody believes we descended from apes

There is an immense amount evidence out there to prove it. Many are ignorant with their beliefs.

 

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886634#post7886634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
The NASA scientists are zero for three in predicting climate changes for the next twenty years,

Back in 1970s they forecast a cooling of the earth by one degree by 2000.( we all laughed and said thier crazy)

Then in early 1980s they started rubbing our noses in the colder weather as proof they were right about the ice covered future.

Then in the 1990s they said you know we were wrong , but its still not alright! This Suv driving cant be good , so it must be Global warming!

A complete turn around from cooling to warming.

All the data they worked on from 1958 to 1982 was *** backward and completely baseless. (they were sure that the earth had been cooling for 160 years mind you)

Now once again , the climate didnt quite live up to their expectations.

You do know right that in TIME...lots of time that the Earth will become a very cold planet as our orbit furthers away from the sun.

 

[Gisho]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886304#post7886304 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ciarán



Gisho, your post was everything i wish to say in a nutshell.

I'm glad someone actually read it.

Cheers Ciaran :beer:

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886634#post7886634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
Back in 1970s they forecast a cooling of the earth by one degree by 2000.( we all laughed and said thier crazy)

Then in early 1980s they started rubbing our noses in the colder weather as proof they were right about the ice covered future.

Then in the 1990s they said you know we were wrong , but its still not alright! This Suv driving cant be good , so it must be Global warming!

Well, maybe we were in for an ice age, but emissions pulled us out of it? You just don't know, but that's science for you, it changes as we learn more things. Do you go to a doctor when you're sick? They used to drain blood to cure illness. D'oh!

Now once again , the climate didnt quite live up to their expectations.

Uhhh, yes it has. It's warming just like predicted.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886574#post7886574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wlagarde
And CO2 as the CAUSE of global warming can not be proven without an appropriate CONTROL - i.e. a parallel earth identical to our own in all ways except for lower CO2 in the atmosphere.

You know that's a poor argument.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Wow! I found a great document .http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/public-review-draft/sap1-1prd-allfigs.pdf
It shows in detail just how variable the warming trends are, not just for the land and oceans .......but for the four main atmosphere layers.
No wonder why we can agree as to why or what is happening.
Areas cooling were we least expect and areas warming for no apparent reason.

After looking at this data from this perspective .......Im not sure what "on Earth" is going on.

Now if we just had data like this from 1900 to 1958, we might actualy be able to size up the situation.

 

[billsreef]

That is a good document, Kalk. It clearly shows warming trends in the ocean surface, land surface, and 3 of the 4 atmospheric layers. Only the lower stratosphere shows any cooling.

 

[billsreef]

BTW, I remember some people talking about cooling in the 70's and crying the next ice age is coming. Mostly nut cases on city street corners. However, there was a small cooling trend at the time also. However, a couple of year trends up or down are very normal. It's those trends over greater periods of time that are more meaninfull, and those cooling trends bottom out higher and higher with the passing decades with the warming trends hitting increasinly higher highs as well. BTW I also recall hearing about Global Warming and increasing greenhouse gasses back in the late 70's and early 80's.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886538#post7886538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
The upwellings are only areas the pH is dropping and its coming from deep down below not from the air above.

Think about this a bit more. Those upwellings are nothing new, but the decrease in pH is. So if those deep ocean waters are being affected, that is a pretty serious impact. Rember, those deep waters started out as surface water.

 

[wlagarde]

"You know that's a poor argument." - No, not a poor arguement, simply a limitation of the scientific method in this setting,.

 

[55semireef]

Upwellings occur all the time. Thats how the nutrient rich waters come about. Its the cold, nutrient water that gives life to reefs. If upwellings came up with a much different pH wouldn't this upset the balance since of pH swings in some areas?

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7888165#post7888165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
If upwellings came up with a much different pH wouldn't this upset the balance since of pH swings in some areas?

:thumbsup:

 

[Reef_bones]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7887479#post7887479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath


Now if we just had data like this from 1900 to 1958, we might actualy be able to size up the situation.

actually in the life span of millions of years, a one hundred year sample seems pretty small to be making any conclusions. If you had data from the start of existance of man you still only have a drop in the bucket..

 

[55semireef]

a one hundred year sample seems pretty small to be making any conclusions. If you had data from the start of existance of man you still only have a drop in the bucket..

Haha...data from the existance of man is still relatively small compared to how long Earth has been around. We think we are so superior to all living creatures and yet we destroy our Earth. If you want to talk about a living life that we should idle it is the Dinosours.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7887479#post7887479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
Wow! I found a great document .http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/public-review-draft/sap1-1prd-allfigs.pdf
It shows in detail just how variable the warming trends are, not just for the land and oceans .......but for the four main atmosphere layers.
No wonder why we can agree as to why or what is happening.
Areas cooling were we least expect and areas warming for no apparent reason.

After looking at this data from this perspective .......Im not sure what "on Earth" is going on.

Now if we just had data like this from 1900 to 1958, we might actualy be able to size up the situation.

Yup, nice document. The warming of the tropo and cooling of the strato was predicted BTW.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7887929#post7887929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wlagarde
"You know that's a poor argument." - No, not a poor arguement, simply a limitation of the scientific method in this setting,.

It's a poor argument in that you use it as reason to ignore what is happening. We can, and do, get meaningful information without a proxy Earth.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7888286#post7888286 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef_bones
actually in the life span of millions of years, a one hundred year sample seems pretty small to be making any conclusions. If you had data from the start of existance of man you still only have a drop in the bucket..

We have data from much further back, it just doesn't have this resolution.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7888448#post7888448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
It's a poor argument in that you use it as reason to ignore what is happening. We can, and do, get meaningful information without a proxy Earth.

Here's a good example. The sun comes up and it get's warmer and light is shining on the earth. The sun goes down and it gets dark and cool. We don't need experimental controls on a proxy earth to tell us that the suns rays provide light and warm the earth, we use direct observation to tell us that. Or is there a school of thought out there that says without such a controled experiment that the whole light and warming thing during the day might just be a freak coincidence and it's really something else entirely that causes light and warming during the daytime?