SantaMonica
Well-known member
Yes it's really hard to grow when you don't get any nitrogen (light/photosynthesis provides zero nitrogen).
the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many
- Thread starter kevensquint
- Start date
mm.reefs
Member
ouling (and others),
Watch out! When you lower your dkh to ~7, you MUST dose Kalkwasser to maintain the pH in a good range, otherwise this will drastically drop and coral health, colors and growth won't progress. This is something that is not well explained in the May 2014 TOIM and other articles. Having pH in 7.8 to 8.4 is crucial.
Notice that in this TOIM it is mentioned the use of pH probes and Avast Kalk, but not how these are used. The value of pH is not even mentioned! I bet that a controller is used to monitor pH and Kalwasser is dosed whenever is needed to maintain pH in good range.
If you will do the same (controller + Kalwasser) then you are fine, otherwise keep dkh in 9+.
PS: Definitely ouling, feed your tank MORE :lol2:!!!!
FWIW, that first section is just not true.
pH is controlled by the alkalinity and the CO2 level.
If you do not have excess CO2 in the water (and hence, your room air), then your pH will not be low with an alkalinity of 7, assuming you have adequate aeration.
I discuss such issues here:
Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm
The "How To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 3: pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php
saltyair
New member
Adding my 2 cents 
What is your cal,mag readings?
Do you feed your corals? i find adding amino and reefroids helped stimulate growth.
What kind of lighting? LED full spectrum or ....
why only 1 fish? are you skimming?
What is your cal,mag readings?
Do you feed your corals? i find adding amino and reefroids helped stimulate growth.
What kind of lighting? LED full spectrum or ....
why only 1 fish? are you skimming?
Cal is 450, mag unknown, LED is Radion Pro single puck @ 75%, skimmer is Reef Octopus BH 1000.
Tank is 25 gallons, 18'' cube. I only keep 1 fish because I didn't want to make my water dirty with fish poop and I actually don't like fish.
I don't feed corals anything up until this point.
Tank is 25 gallons, 18'' cube. I only keep 1 fish because I didn't want to make my water dirty with fish poop and I actually don't like fish.
I don't feed corals anything up until this point.
Nutrition is a vital component of keeping any corals alive, zooxanthellae is not enough. We cannot even come close to providing the same food to our tanks that corals have in the wild. Feeding them nothing is not a good way to keep any living creature alive that is in our care.
mm.reefs
Member
Randy,
Thanks for the note and clarification! I live in the Caribbean and have a small fish room (12' x 10') with 4 systems. Temperature in the room/systems is controlled by A/C and evaporation. Since the room is closed most of the time it is definitely building up CO2. What I normally do is to have Alk at 9.5+dkh or dose Kalkwasser with a controller (only in one tank) to keep pH at 8+. Otherwise I don’t get good coral health.
I get very good “real” coral coloration (not like ULN Zeo systems) in my systems. What I do is contol Ca, Alk, pH and weekly test/adjust I, Fe and K. Water changes of 5% weekly and dose amino acids daily.
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Temperature in the room/systems is controlled by A/C and evaporation. Since the room is closed most of the time it is definitely building up CO2. What I normally do is to have Alk at 9.5+dkh or dose Kalkwasser with a controller (only in one tank) to keep pH at 8+. Otherwise I don’t get good coral health.
That makes sense and sounds like a fine plan.
That makes sense and sounds like a fine plan.
JPMagyar
New member
Sorry Jack gotta disagree. I have experimented with various "amino acids" etc. but to no effect. In general I do not now nor have I consistently in the past ever "fed" my corals and I'm pretty sure my corals are "healthy". They certainly grow like crazy.
Research has shown that symbiodinium get the bulk of their nitrogen needs from fish waste and we know that symbiodinium provide the bulk of a corals total needs. Light + fish waste + an active population of zooplankton found in most healthy reefs is all that is needed for the majority of reefkeepers and most coral foods on the market today are just added biomass that will decay and need to be cleaned.
Anyways, thats one dudes OPINION on the great big internet . . . I'm also a French model in my spare time . . . Bonjour
Joe, it was in response to post #226, with one fish, and no other feeding. I should have expounded more but my time has been severely limited recently.
I have never dosed amino acids or any of the commercial "coral foods" but have been feeding my seafood mush for a little over 8 years. I know you understand, but many people do not realize that they are keeping zooxanthellae alive as much as the coral. Not providing any form of nutrition, running very high lighting and keeping the water stripped of nutrients almost always results in pale, sickly corals. The nitrates and phosphates that so many are actively trying to strip from their system is a form of nutrient that the symbionts can use. If we strip the nutrients from the water, we must provide another source of food, which is what Zeo seems to try and do. (not a Zeo proponent, there are much easier ways) Heavy mechanical filtration in our tanks removes a lot of plankton that we already have in short supply and can compound the problem.
I feed the whole tank, not just the fish, when I feed my mush. One quarter of the mix has been puree`d to small enough particles to turn the water cloudy. The response from the corals is fantastic and the growth of sponges is amazing. It isn't the only way, of course, but it does work to keep massive pods, brittle stars and numerous worms thriving. I only keep 4 fish in my 120 gallons of TWV, so I also have to export heavily.
Most corals have evolved to capture planktonic prey and are offered an endless amount in the wild, but not much for water borne nutrients. In our tanks, it has been my experience that corals are utilizing the no3 and p04 from the water for nutrition, as there is not much planktonic life available. This comes from not only the foods we feed the fish, but also the waste the fish produces. The problem is when there is no waste, no food, no nutrients and high PAR. An increase in light should also be followed with an increase in nutrients, no matter how the coral gets them.
Failure to provide nutrients to any living creature always has the same result. Nutrients are required for life, at least on this planet. In your case you are providing it through fish, their food and waste, and that works perfectly fine. :beer:
I have never dosed amino acids or any of the commercial "coral foods" but have been feeding my seafood mush for a little over 8 years. I know you understand, but many people do not realize that they are keeping zooxanthellae alive as much as the coral. Not providing any form of nutrition, running very high lighting and keeping the water stripped of nutrients almost always results in pale, sickly corals. The nitrates and phosphates that so many are actively trying to strip from their system is a form of nutrient that the symbionts can use. If we strip the nutrients from the water, we must provide another source of food, which is what Zeo seems to try and do. (not a Zeo proponent, there are much easier ways) Heavy mechanical filtration in our tanks removes a lot of plankton that we already have in short supply and can compound the problem.
I feed the whole tank, not just the fish, when I feed my mush. One quarter of the mix has been puree`d to small enough particles to turn the water cloudy. The response from the corals is fantastic and the growth of sponges is amazing. It isn't the only way, of course, but it does work to keep massive pods, brittle stars and numerous worms thriving. I only keep 4 fish in my 120 gallons of TWV, so I also have to export heavily.
Most corals have evolved to capture planktonic prey and are offered an endless amount in the wild, but not much for water borne nutrients. In our tanks, it has been my experience that corals are utilizing the no3 and p04 from the water for nutrition, as there is not much planktonic life available. This comes from not only the foods we feed the fish, but also the waste the fish produces. The problem is when there is no waste, no food, no nutrients and high PAR. An increase in light should also be followed with an increase in nutrients, no matter how the coral gets them.
Failure to provide nutrients to any living creature always has the same result. Nutrients are required for life, at least on this planet. In your case you are providing it through fish, their food and waste, and that works perfectly fine. :beer:
markalot
...
I feed coral food but I think the food is mis-named. Reef Roids, which is what I use, increases my sandbed critters and I believe makes for a healthier tank if used correctly. Reef Roids, Reef Chili, and a few others are some of the few foods also shown to increase growth in testing.
You can close the print popup at this link to read the article.
http://www.academia.edu/1647139/Coral_farming_effects_of_light_water_motion_and_artificial_foods
No testing was done on color, just growth rates.
That test would seem to show the corals actually munched on the food.
You can close the print popup at this link to read the article.
http://www.academia.edu/1647139/Coral_farming_effects_of_light_water_motion_and_artificial_foods
No testing was done on color, just growth rates.
That test would seem to show the corals actually munched on the food.
JPMagyar
New member
So why didn't you say that in the first place . . . no just kidding of course :lolspin:
I couldn't agree more; ya gotta have a lotta fish and feed heavily otherwise my "negligence" approach doesn't work.
Yep, totally agree and have seen numerous studies indicating the same. Feeding corals makes them grow, BUT my only point is that it is NOT NECESSARY if you have a healthy vibrant reef and it is very clear that not all corals respond the same to the same food so trying to provide food to all different types of corals MIGHT result in added unnecessary pollution in a tank, but again it depends on the individual situation.
Thanks for keeping me honest :wave:
SantaMonica
Well-known member
This is becoming one of my favorite things to do
JPMagyar
New member
Hi Tom,
Nano beat me to the punch,but I would like to change my original statement to say MANY corals ARE ABLE TO, BUT DON"T NECESSARILY ALWAYS, get the bulk of their nitrogen needs from fish waste.
It is my understanding that corals were originally considered Autotrophic (they could make their own food), but early research showed them to be Mixotrophic (they could both eat and make their own food) but the most recent research showed that many corals have adapted to survive in nutrient poor waters with little "food" other than the output of their symbiodinium and those symbiodinium can take up dissolved nitrogen from the water. Sadly I don't keep a list of the papers I've read but I know there were many with same conclusion. Were you working under a different assumption?
Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata
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Lavoisier
Premium Member
SantaMonica
Well-known member
You might be confusing "nutrient" (nitrate, phosphate) with "food particles" . Reefs may be nutrient poor, but they are food-particle rich.
