the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many

[horseplay]

I have been reading threads like this for a while and have been experimenting with my tank. I have a 75g tank with a 40g sump. The tank has been setup for about a year now. The tank is mostly SPS which I like. I have been having the typical pale color problem and have been reading endlessly to find a cure. I buy a coral with nice color. Put in the tank a few weeks later color is gone.

Now I think I have find a solution. Within the last 3 months my tank has been gaining color steadily. At this point some of the corals are probably look as good as any I have seem. The strawberry short cake is the slowest in gaining color but it's definitely making huge progress comparing to the almost white color it once had. I have no doubt in my mind in a few month it will be as colorful as those in the nicest pictures.

The secret is balance. Once your tank achieved the right balance everything will thrive. A few changes I have made. I nuked the tank with Chemi-clean first. I had a mild cyano problem but it was getting worse. After this was done the tank is super clean. In the process I removed the sandbed. I started dosing AcroPower. Added fish. Now I have two tangs and six other fish. I feed the tank frozen 2 times a day when I work. When I am home during the day I feed 2 more times. I turned off the GFO. Cheato is growing very nicely with dark green color. PO4 is zero with Hanna checker and NO4 is zero with API test kit. I know it's not actually zero but it's very low. So the macro is basically exporting the nutrient in perfect balance. Diatom algae has been a lot less than before.

I feel the biggest contributing factor is turning off GFO. It's striping PO4 off too clean. With Cheato it's a more natural process although I do not have any scientific proof for this.

I no longer believe any additive is the magic cure. You just need to find the balance.

Now I just need to cure the lingering bubble algae problem

 

[Big E]

The secret is balance. Once your tank achieved the right balance everything will thrive.

Bang....and there it is...... So simple yet most people don't get the concept.

You can't chase or pin point certain levels and expect the tank to then thrive. The target numbers only mean something when the tank is thriving and colorful...........that's when you test and that's your tanks range.

It's like the snowflake analogy...........no two tanks are the same.

 

[sotomx]

Now I just need to cure the lingering bubble algae problem

A Fox Face will do the job nicely.

 

[SantaMonica]

I feel the biggest contributing factor is turning off GFO. It's striping PO4 off too clean. With Cheato it's a more natural process although I do not have any scientific proof for this.

I can prove that algae is natural, and iron particles are not

On another note, since chaeto uses photosynthesis to control how fast nutrients are pulled out of the water, the "pulling" slows down as nutrients become less. GFO however keeps on pulling, not caring how low nutrients get.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

GFO however keeps on pulling, not caring how low nutrients get.


Of course, the aquarist has complete control over how GFO is used, how much, and how often it is replaced. I use GFO, and by no means is my tank too low in phosphate.

 

[horseplay]

Not saying GFO is not good just that it's a little more difficult to dial in right. If cheato is enough to export the nutrient (as is the case for my tank) then I would suggest not using the GFO.

Again I think this is the biggest contributing factor as I have been feeding the tank albeit not with acropower.

 

[StevieK]

Not saying GFO is not good just that it's a little more difficult to dial in right. If cheato is enough to export the nutrient (as is the case for my tank) then I would suggest not using the GFO.

I found the opposite to be true on my current tank. GFO has helped and was easier to dial in. Cheato, was easier on my old tank.

Bottom line, i noticed a substantial loss of growth as my phosphates rose. I have been following "Guess the phosphate level", interesting read but so far no luck.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2366953&goto=newpost

 

[jzaso]

Great thread! very interesting,has me doing some research!

 

[elegance coral]

You might be confusing "nutrient" (nitrate, phosphate) with "food particles" . Reefs may be nutrient poor, but they are food-particle rich.

I wouldn't consider healthy coral reefs to be "food particle rich".
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20001444&postcount=98

I can prove that algae is natural, and iron particles are not

How do you intend to do that??? Iron is a naturally occurring element. It's been around much much longer than algae has. Basically, from the time the first stars formed. There's been iron particles on this planet from the very beginning. I don't see how you can prove that iron particles are not natural.

 

[elegance coral]

Not saying GFO is not good just that it's a little more difficult to dial in right. If cheato is enough to export the nutrient (as is the case for my tank) then I would suggest not using the GFO.

Again I think this is the biggest contributing factor as I have been feeding the tank albeit not with acropower.

IMHO The big difference between GFO and algae, is how it works when nutrients become low. To grow algae, you must maintain a given amount of nutrients within the system. If nutrients fall below this level, the algae simply dies, and there will be no reduction of PO4. GFO doesn't have this lower limit. GFO can continue to bind PO4 even when the concentration is very low. So, IMHO, we are able to achieve a much lower PO4 level with GFO than we could with algae alone.

 

[horseplay]

Elegance coral, this is interesting. Do you have any source for this? I would like to know the cutoff level for PO4. It must be very low since my level is 0 with Hanna checker and I do not run GFO. When I was running GFO cheato was yellow. Maybe due to iron deficiency though.

 

[SantaMonica]

The algae-vs-iron proof is the same as the organic-vs-artificial label on bread; it says so therefore it must be

 

[elegance coral]

Elegance coral, this is interesting. Do you have any source for this? I would like to know the cutoff level for PO4. It must be very low since my level is 0 with Hanna checker and I do not run GFO. When I was running GFO cheato was yellow. Maybe due to iron deficiency though.

No, I don't really have a source for this. I'm sure the "cut off level" would vary with species and environmental conditions. (temperature, light, flow...... )

With things like this, I don't get to hung up on numbers I get from tests. I rely more heavily on bio markers. If algae is growing well, there MUST be PO4 available to it. If our tests are telling us there is no PO4 in the water, yet algae is growing, then something isn't right. The tests can't be giving us an accurate picture of whats actually taking place in the tank.

If light, flow, temp, and other parameters are relatively stable (as they should be) and nutrients aren't excessively high, then nutrient levels become the major controlling factor for algae growth. This is true of algae anywhere in the system.

Using algae on the front glass as an example. If we have to wipe the algae off the glass once every two weeks, the PO4 level is likely to be very low. If that changes, and we need to wipe the algae off more often, it's safe to assume the PO4 level has risen. If we change out our GFO, and we can go back to wiping off the glass every two weeks, it's safe to assume the PO4 level has dropped. All of this can take place while our test kits are telling us there is no PO4 in the water. If we get to know our corals, they too can become bio markers. Through controlling PO4 levels, we can cause our corals to become darker or lighter brown. Again, this can be done while our tests are telling us there is no PO4 in the water. We can have a refuge with large quantities of rapidly growing algae, a process that requires a substantial amount of PO4, and our test kits may tell us we have no PO4.

Once our PO4 drops to very low levels, our test kits become useless and bio markers become the most reliable means of determining PO4 levels. Mother nature may not give us numbers to go by, but she doesn't lie.

Peace
EC

 

[elegance coral]

The algae-vs-iron proof is the same as the organic-vs-artificial label on bread; it says so therefore it must be

So in other words, you were just making another false statement to support your ATS while attempting to discredit a competing method. :hmm4:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Using algae on the front glass as an example. If we have to wipe the algae off the glass once every two weeks, the PO4 level is likely to be very low. If that changes, and we need to wipe the algae off more often, it's safe to assume the PO4 level has risen.

Or something else that was limiting the algae has been raised, such as nitrogen, iron, light, etc.

 

[dtum]

Using algae on the front glass as an example. If we have to wipe the algae off the glass once every two weeks, the PO4 level is likely to be very low. If that changes, and we need to wipe the algae off more often, it's safe to assume the PO4 level has risen.

Or something else that was limiting the algae has been raised, such as nitrogen, iron, light, etc.

Nice

 

[elegance coral]

Using algae on the front glass as an example. If we have to wipe the algae off the glass once every two weeks, the PO4 level is likely to be very low. If that changes, and we need to wipe the algae off more often, it's safe to assume the PO4 level has risen.

Or something else that was limiting the algae has been raised, such as nitrogen, iron, light, etc.

Always keeping me on my toes.

Yes, you are correct. Which is why I said, in the vary same post, "If light, flow, temp, and other parameters are relatively stable", and "I'm sure the "cut off level" would vary with species and environmental conditions. (temperature, light, flow...... )". I wouldn't have said these things if I thought PO4 was the only contributing factor. I assumed people would be able to fallow that, even if I left it out of one statement in the post.

The point I was trying to make, is that even after the PO4 drops below detectable levels for our test kits, and algae like chaeto will no longer grow, we can still get an idea of where our PO4 level is, and manipulate it with the help of GFO.

 

[Aquarist007]

Always keeping me on my toes.

Yes, you are correct. Which is why I said, in the vary same post, "If light, flow, temp, and other parameters are relatively stable", and "I'm sure the "cut off level" would vary with species and environmental conditions. (temperature, light, flow...... )". I wouldn't have said these things if I thought PO4 was the only contributing factor. I assumed people would be able to fallow that, even if I left it out of one statement in the post.

The point I was trying to make, is that even after the PO4 drops below detectable levels for our test kits, and algae like chaeto will no longer grow, we can still get an idea of where our PO4 level is, and manipulate it with the help of GFO.

Great point and practical
One of the best tanks for coral growth that I look after has untraceable readings for nitrates and phosphates . However the glass is covered with brown algae within three days. How would you explain that

 

[reefgeezer]

Great point and practical
One of the best tanks for coral growth that I look after has untraceable readings for nitrates and phosphates . However the glass is covered with brown algae within three days. How would you explain that

I have much the same issue. O nitrate, very low phosphate... and some brown algae that grows on the glass. I have to wipe it off every 4-5 days. I think there are strains of Cyano that can use the nutrients locked in organics pretty efficiently. When I increase vinegar, skim wetter, or add GAC the algae stops growing so fast but the corals don't do as well.

 

[SantaMonica]

One of the best tanks for coral growth that I look after has untraceable readings for nitrates and phosphates . However the glass is covered with brown algae within three days. How would you explain that

Nutrient flow. You have low nutrient levels, but high nutrient flow (from the fish pee --> glass)