the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many

[tmz]

Hey guys related to alk, how does one lower this? Especially with the salts that have alk so high it seems impossible to ever get it lowered.

Water changes with a lower alk salt obviously or with muriatic acid. Here is the formula form Randy H. Farley:

Adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as muriatic acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

 

[DivingTheWorld]

To those that use muriatic acid to lower the Alk in your water change water, what do you do about the crazy drop in ph? Do you just leave it that way and do the water change or do you raise the ph?

 

[tmz]

If you aerate the mix for a few hours much of the pH should recover as CO2 equilibrates with the air . Small variations in pH are less of an issue with smaller water changes. Personally, I don't use muriatic acid regularly . I use a salt mix with a mid range alk level around 9.2 dkh at 1.0264 sg.
For those using a high alk salt mix who choose not to mess with the acid and want low range alk levels in the aquarium , smaller water cahnges and a little less alk supplemental dosing can get your aqurium to the levels you want.

 

[Aquarist007]

I have read this thread several times, great information!
I am having problems with my sps and would appreciate suggestions:
In January 2015 I started my new 150 gal Bare Bottom tank ( redsea max 650 aquarium with T5 Bulbs).
my parameters in January were: Alk: 10.5, PO4:0 (hanna), NO3: 0
After 3 days my first frag bleached, and after 1 week several others bleached. 2 weeks later most lost the beautiful colors!. I had only 2 fish in the aquarium.
After reading this thread ( April 2015), I realized that I had a lethal combination of high light, high ALK and almost no nutrients, so I lowered my ALK striving for Natural Sea Water levels and introduced 7 fish to higher the quantity of nutrients in the system.
Right now I have the following parameters:
Alk: 7.3, PO4:0 (Hanna), NO3: 0
Colors got better, but never really good, and I can not get my millis to have great polip extention. I had to travel out of town and the aquarium was given too much food and I guess there was a spike in ammonia levels resulting in a mini-cycle and the most of my fish died. I am back to 2 fish again. When I came back I tested ammonia and it was undetectable but one fish developed ich so I will not be able to get more fish inside until I treat the actual ones.
Questions:
1.- Since I cannot get more fish in the tank for some time how do I keep the nutrients high for developing colorful healthy colors?
2.- How much and what should I feed my tank? As mentioned before I have only 2 fish so they do not consume much food
3.- Is it just a matter of nutrients in the system? Assuming ALK, MAG and CAL are with in range?
4.- Will the ammonia spike that I had affect my sps corals?
I would appreciate your advice on how to get this tank in the right track
Thanks again

Corals prefer or do much better with phosphate levels around .03 and nitrate levels around .3
Suggest you look into liquid carbon dosing with vodka or vinegar or both.

 

[hkgar]

Corals prefer or do much better with phosphate levels around .03 and nitrate levels around .3
Suggest you look into liquid carbon dosing with vodka or vinegar or both.

Why would you suggest dosing carbon when he is reporting 0 NO3 and PO4? I believe the question he is asking is how can I increase them?

 

[sensei]

Corals prefer or do much better with phosphate levels around .03 and nitrate levels around .3
Suggest you look into liquid carbon dosing with vodka or vinegar or both.

Thanks for your answer Aquarist 007
I started dosing reef energy A and B, phytoplankton and cyclop-eeze and my nutrient levels are today: NO3=0.25 PO4= 0.02
I guess I should aim to maintain this levels to see improvements?

I believe I should not do carbon dosing because it will lover my nutrient levels?

 

[tmz]

FWIW, my corals do well with PO4 0.02 to 0.04ppm ( per hanah 713) and nitrate at 0.2ppm. Extra food should help. Are you or were you using phosaphte adsobers like gfo to keep the PO4 at zero?

 

[sensei]

FWIW, my corals do well with PO4 0.02 to 0.04ppm ( per hanah 713) and nitrate at 0.2ppm. Extra food should help. Are you or were you using phosphte adsobers like gfo to keep the PO4 at zero?

YES, I had a GFO reactor with 100g of GFO ( for my 175Gal system with 150 DT), but I took it out yesterday.
I have read that many have taken the GFO reactor out until they get and algae outbreak and they put it back again. that is why I had it installed, trying to prevent the algae problems.

when you say extra food should help? would dosing aminoacids be considered food? I ask becuase I will run my tank fishless for 72 days due to ich problems

do you use GFO reactor or simillar?

 

[tmz]

I have not used gfo in about 22 months.I do use vodka and vinegar to enhance heterotrophic bacteria and have for about 6 years.

Foods are a source of proteins which can source amino acids and a wide array of elements . Amino acids add nitrogen and carbon and hydrogen mostly.

Amino acids will add some nitrogen and carbon Some may provide energy when oxidized to urea Some s glucogenic types can convert to glucose(sugar). None provide phosphate that I know of . Most are synthesized by corals from protein breakdown via enzymatic activity.

 

[sensei]

Tom, thanks for your answer.
I already took out the GFO
In case NO3 goes up I have NOPOX at hand.

I dose aminoacids because I don´t have fish but I am also adding a pinch of pulverized cyclopezz with the aminos to feed the acros. We will se what happens. I will let you know

 

[tmz]

NOPOX is ethanol ( vodka) and acetic acid( vinegar) with about 2% methanol . The addition of the toxic methanol makes NOPOX unsuitable as a consumable alcohol for humans and avoids a spirit tax and other rules applying to alcohols for human consumption. The heterotrophic bacteria using the ethanol and acetate take up ammonia preferentially for nitrogen and assimilalte some NO3; some will degrade via anaer robic activity too. In addition to the organic C from the ethanol and acetic acid these bacteria need nitrogen and phosphate along with other major, minor and trace elements like potassium and iron. The cyclopeeze should help that; it should also help the corals.

 

[hkgar]

I dosed vinegar when I had a 90 gallon. I am not doing it now, but have considered it. I don't think my Nitrates - 3 and PO4 .03 are high enough to start up vinegar again. Could it be used to maintain current levels?

When PO4 get above .03 I start up my GFO for about 24 hours and it comes down. Last test after 24 hour GFO was .003.

I also run a algae turf scrubber.

 

[sensei]

NOPOX is ethanol ( vodka) and acetic acid( vinegar) with about 2% methanol . The addition of the toxic methanol makes NOPOX unsuitable as a consumable alcohol for humans and avoids a spirit tax and other rules applying to alcohols for human consumption. The heterotrophic bacteria using the ethanol and acetate take up ammonia preferentially for nitrogen and assimilalte some NO3; some will degrade via anaer robic activity too. In addition to the organic C from the ethanol and acetic acid these bacteria need nitrogen and phosphate along with other major, minor and trace elements like potassium and iron. The cyclopeeze should help that; it should also help the corals.

Tom,
do you think that I should feed the cyclopeeze every day with the aminos or just keep the aminos daily and the cyclopeeze every other day?
thanks

 

[tmz]

I don't know, how much you need to feed and/ or how much amino acid if any you need to keep a reasonable level of nutrients for the live stock you have, I'd watch the PO4 and NO3 as indicators.

Yes , organic carbon dosing can be used to maintain levels and enable more feeding. With the light feeding you are doing you probably don't want it at this point. This thread may be of interest going froward:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing

 

[sensei]

I don't know, how much you need to feed and/ or how much amino acid if any you need to keep a reasonable level of nutrients for the live stock you have, I'd watch the PO4 and NO3 as indicators.

Yes , organic carbon dosing can be used to maintain levels and enable more feeding. With the light feeding you are doing you probably don't want it at this point. This thread may be of interest going froward:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing

Thanks Tom,

how often do you think I should test for NO3 and PO4?
I ask because definitively I do not have enough nutrients now, and I will be dosing aminos and feeding, but I do not want to over do it and cause algae problem,

should I test every other day until I see that NO3 and PO4 are stable in a reasonable range (PO4 = 0.2-0.4 and NO3 = 0.25- 0.5)?
or should I give it more days between tests?

 

[SantaMonica]

Since I cannot get more fish in the tank for some time how do I keep the nutrients high for developing colorful healthy colors?

First thing is to recognize the difference between nutrients and food. For what we are doing, nutrients are Ammonia/Ammonium, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphate. They are inorganic, and are the building block of food. But food is is combination of them, and is organic. You want high levels of food, and low levels of nutrients.

How much and what should I feed my tank? As mentioned before I have only 2 fish so they do not consume much food

Your feeding is limited only by your export (filtration). Natural reefs have huge amounts of food going in, and huge amounts of nutrients going out (by absorption from algae).

Will the ammonia spike that I had affect my sps corals?

Ammonia will kill anything and everything that you want to keep. Fortunately, ammonia is the favorite food of algae.

High nutrient import and export is the key

I agree. Like natural reefs, lakes, ponds, and even rivers, the amount of food particles is stagering. But of course the amount of nutrients are very low because they are being consumed by algae.

Regarding the high nutrient export, I guess you can achive it with the skimmer and the water changes

Unfortunately skimmers do not remove any nutrients. They only remove food particles. That's why they are "protein" skimmers.

How much algae in the glass should I expect

Interestingly, most algae on the glass comes from ammonium/urea from the respiration of the animals, especially pee from the fish, because this ammonia goes directly into the water and it hits the glass before ever getting a chance to reach a filter. So with less fish feeding, there is much less algae on the glass.

when I came back from my trip 10 days later, the rocks were covered with green algae

Yes the algae are great for absorbing ammonia; it's what they love best.

The best way to feed is to have properly stocked fish, which provides a constant supply of nutrients for the corals

I might re-word that a bit to reduce possible confusion: "provides a constant supply of food particles". The waste from the fish is the "constant supply of food particles" for the corals. You of course are not trying to supply nutrients, aka Ammonia/Ammonium, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphate.

Hey guys related to alk, how does one lower this? Especially with the salts that have alk so high it seems impossible to ever get it lowered

Interestingly, growing lots of algae/macros in your system, especially when they grow rapidly like they do when absorbing an ammonia spike, will suck up some alk. They do this to get carbon, when they cannot get it fast enough from dissolved CO2.

I have read that many have taken the GFO reactor out until they get and algae outbreak and they put it back again

First time I've heard that one. Sounds like putting in a heater without a thermostat, and removing it when it gets too hot

would dosing aminoacids be considered food?

Certainly. Any organic material (which are not Ammonia/Ammonium, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphate) could be considered food.

how often do you think I should test for NO3 and PO4?

Once you know what to look for, you won't need to test much at all. The color/amount of alge on the glass; the thickness and type of periphyton on the rocks; the growth of coralline and stoney corals, are all indicators, and are actually more important that measurements.

 

[hkgar]

Would the algae that I get on my glass, and scrape every other day, be coming I have because I do not have sufficient rock? I seem to have a constant algae battle even with 0 po4 and 2 no3.

I have about a 175 gallon total system and about 105 lbs of live rock. Should I add another 50 lbs, even if it is in the sump?

 

[cham]

One of the best threads I've read on RC. I wished it had started many many years before it did, would have saved me thousands and a lot of frustration.

 

[horseplay]

One of the best threads I've read on RC. I wished it had started many many years before it did, would have saved me thousands and a lot of frustration.

+1. A lot of SPS keepers are pursuing the low nutrient level by not feeding, not knowing the difference between nutrient and food.

 

[hkgar]

I have been keeping ALK at about 8.0 dKh for my SPS tank.

I recently added about 60 lbs of Marco dry rock and would like to kick start some good Coraline Algae growth. Would it be ok to slowly raise ALK to about 9 or 9.5?