The T5 Q&a Thread - split
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mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Some thoughts about Spectrum and T5s:
After a lot of research I have found that there are basically two spectrums that are used over our tanks made up of a mix of blue, green, and red. Originally these were generated by metal Halides.
The first spectrum is the so-called 10000K spectrum, some 140000K bulbs also fall into this category. One of these is the XM10000K:
The 10000k is supposed to be a growth monster, and makes yellows and reds look good, but the general consensus is that it is less than ideal for coloring up corals. Notice where the "Blue" peak is? Its right at 420. In relative terms, there is very little of the 450-470nm blue. There is the standard 550nm green peak. There is also a nice selection of peaks in the yellow and red sections, with the red peaks at 590, 670, and 690. The only bulb that looks even somewhat like that in the T5s is the GE6500K:
The other spectrum is the "20000K spectrum". The Radium is the most notable example of this, but the Phoenix 14K uses the same approach:
In this spectrum the Blue is a peak at 450, and almost nothing at 420. The same 550 green peak is there, and the red peak is about 590, 670, and 690.
Why is one great for growth and the other great for color? Other than intensity and par, the biggest differences are that the 10K has lots of 420nm while the 20K does not and the 10K has additional peaks in the yellow region.
With T5s we can mix and match the spectrum to get the best of both worlds - For example, Blue plus gives a great 450-470 peak as well as a small 550 peak:
In fact, most T5s these days have a peak around 460nm and a green peak at 550, so then the trick is to add just enough of the right kind of red to balance the colors. However, if you add at least one 420nm actinic bulb and a white bulb with some yellow in it, you will get everything that the 10000k and 20000k offer in the same mix.
There are spectral plots out there for pretty much all the bulbs made so look carefully there to get a general idea of the mix you want then i would suggest getting an extra white and extra blue bulb so you can tweak the mix. That is how I have been looking at bulbs these days, I hope it helps others here on the board with how they look at their selection of bulbs.
After a lot of research I have found that there are basically two spectrums that are used over our tanks made up of a mix of blue, green, and red. Originally these were generated by metal Halides.
The first spectrum is the so-called 10000K spectrum, some 140000K bulbs also fall into this category. One of these is the XM10000K:
The 10000k is supposed to be a growth monster, and makes yellows and reds look good, but the general consensus is that it is less than ideal for coloring up corals. Notice where the "Blue" peak is? Its right at 420. In relative terms, there is very little of the 450-470nm blue. There is the standard 550nm green peak. There is also a nice selection of peaks in the yellow and red sections, with the red peaks at 590, 670, and 690. The only bulb that looks even somewhat like that in the T5s is the GE6500K:
The other spectrum is the "20000K spectrum". The Radium is the most notable example of this, but the Phoenix 14K uses the same approach:
In this spectrum the Blue is a peak at 450, and almost nothing at 420. The same 550 green peak is there, and the red peak is about 590, 670, and 690.
Why is one great for growth and the other great for color? Other than intensity and par, the biggest differences are that the 10K has lots of 420nm while the 20K does not and the 10K has additional peaks in the yellow region.
With T5s we can mix and match the spectrum to get the best of both worlds - For example, Blue plus gives a great 450-470 peak as well as a small 550 peak:
In fact, most T5s these days have a peak around 460nm and a green peak at 550, so then the trick is to add just enough of the right kind of red to balance the colors. However, if you add at least one 420nm actinic bulb and a white bulb with some yellow in it, you will get everything that the 10000k and 20000k offer in the same mix.
There are spectral plots out there for pretty much all the bulbs made so look carefully there to get a general idea of the mix you want then i would suggest getting an extra white and extra blue bulb so you can tweak the mix. That is how I have been looking at bulbs these days, I hope it helps others here on the board with how they look at their selection of bulbs.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I think these are more available in Europe than USA those days. The ATI Bulb line is very similar and fairly inexpensive.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
I currently run (Front to Back, the bulbs are about six months old) B+, P+, B+, B+, C+, B+
My Montipora Digis (It's a dedicated tank) are growing very well but I'd like to have the tank a bit bluer to my eyes... could I change any of the above bulbs to make that happen, without taking too much of the beneficial PAR away from the Digis?
My Montipora Digis (It's a dedicated tank) are growing very well but I'd like to have the tank a bit bluer to my eyes... could I change any of the above bulbs to make that happen, without taking too much of the beneficial PAR away from the Digis?
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Why the C+ versus the P+?
After looking at the bulb descriptions.. what do you think of going (Front to back) B+, C+, B+, C+, B+, C+ ? That should be bluer than what I currently have, and it keeps the light pretty evenly distributed.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Personally I hate the look of the coral plus bulb. I think it puts off a weird pinkish color that i just don't much like. I know I'm in the minority here but I will pretty much never recommend it. I own a couple and I've tried to make them work but I always end up pulling them for a more neutral white after a week or so.
I look at each bulb with an eye to how much red and green they add to the mix. Think of each bulb as having a value for total amount of red or green it adds to the balance. For example, the coral plus bulb:
Has less red than the Purple plus, but a bit more green:
Because the coral plus has a bigger green peak it neutralizes the red that is there somewhat. By my totally subjective/non-scientific method I would assign a coral plus a "red" value of 5 while a purple plus is a 10.
If you like a really blue look but want the other colors to be seen, one purple to 5 blue plusses will work fine. Think of the numbers as a guide - Right now you have 15 red units but if you take away the coral plus that drops to 10.
Two coral plusses with 4 blue plusses will contribute about the same amount of red as the one purple plus, but will also add more green, which will raise the overall brightness. Either one may work fine for your tastes.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
Looking at the spectrums, I am a little surprised that ATI North America would recommend the C+ as a possible stand alone bulb (Or in conjunction with others) as opposed to the P+ (Not as a stand alone, but in conjunction with others only). Granted these are recommendations.. but why the different assignments given their similarity? It looks like the green spike in Purple Plus is really the only difference.. but enough so to exclude it being recommended as a stand-alone bulb?
4bruceinc
Member
I am not sure if it is in this thread or another - but the ATI rep (Oliver) has stated their agreement with Big E...a 1:1 ratio of Blue+ to C+ is the best combination...anything else is just visually pleasing for the consumer...
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Look at the spectrum charts;
There are GAPS in the spectrum between the two bulbs; its not just a matter of one has stronger Green peak and one had stronger Red peak:
If you carefully look at the 550nm mark for both tubes, the Coral+ has a wider offering in green; ie aprrox 525-565. Whereas the Purple+ has a very narrow 550 spike.
If you look around the 575-625nm range, the Coral+ has a CONTINUOUS output in that range: the Purple+ has GAPS and only specific short range spikes.
Those are very good reasons for calling the Coral+ a full spectrum tube; whereas the Purple+ isnt given such a designation.
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Just like me. My ATI unit shipped with 4 Coral+ tubes. But currently I am only using 1. I am using 2 AquaBlueSpecial tubes as well. I know people say the ABS tube washes out colours, but once your colours are good enough it wont matter.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
You are correct that the Purple plus is missing something, but its a lot less than the ATI Spectral charts show. Those charts are horrible. From another thread here on RC, Pacific sun has their own spectral charts from running the bulbs on their spectrometer:Look at the spectrum charts;
There are GAPS in the spectrum between the two bulbs; its not just a matter of one has stronger Green peak and one had stronger Red peak:
If you carefully look at the 550nm mark for both tubes, the Coral+ has a wider offering in green; ie aprrox 525-565. Whereas the Purple+ has a very narrow 550 spike.
If you look around the 575-625nm range, the Coral+ has a CONTINUOUS output in that range: the Purple+ has GAPS and only specific short range spikes.
Those are very good reasons for calling the Coral+ a full spectrum tube; whereas the Purple+ isnt given such a designation.
Not much real difference at all - but if you put a purple plus up by itself its way too magenta to work. Frankly if you look at good spectral charts of the ATI bulbs they are all built on pretty much the the same blue phosphor mix, the green and yellow red seem to be the only thing they vary, and in that case its only the amount of those components(they have a tri-phosphor mix).
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Im pretty excited to try the new bulbs Pacific Sun is coming out with. I want the blue bulbs to generate light at both 420 and still put out light through the rest of the blue range. They are coming out with a bulb that will do that:
They are also coming out with a very interesting bulb that will hit a lot farther down in the UV regions, at present the only bulbs that do that are a couple of the Giesemann bulbs. They say that this one looks Turquoise:
Nobody makes a bulb anything like that right now, that is for sure...
They are also coming out with a very interesting bulb that will hit a lot farther down in the UV regions, at present the only bulbs that do that are a couple of the Giesemann bulbs. They say that this one looks Turquoise:
Nobody makes a bulb anything like that right now, that is for sure...
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
I have a Montipora Digi specific tank, so I have pretty general colors like Green, Purple and some Blue, and a lot of Orange variations. Funny enough, the colors are pretty coordinated in line with the path of the bulb, so I can be picky.
For instance, much of the purple, orange, and pinks are in line with one bulb, with the the Bluish Digis on another, and greens on another.
I'll have to look again and see what bulbs to use. Maybe something like a ABS or C+ for the Blues and Greens, and P+ for the Purples, Pinks, and Orange Digis.. And interparsing them with B+'s?
For instance, much of the purple, orange, and pinks are in line with one bulb, with the the Bluish Digis on another, and greens on another.
I'll have to look again and see what bulbs to use. Maybe something like a ABS or C+ for the Blues and Greens, and P+ for the Purples, Pinks, and Orange Digis.. And interparsing them with B+'s?
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Yes, you are absolutely correct; looking at the spectrometer readings made by Pacsun, there appears to be much less of a difference.
I asked about the Aquascience as I would like to try these because of this old article.
http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Lichttest/T5-1.pdf
I have only been able to find some old stock of 24" T5's and nothing more. I wonder if anyone from Europe would ship these bulbs in?
http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Lichttest/T5-1.pdf
I have only been able to find some old stock of 24" T5's and nothing more. I wonder if anyone from Europe would ship these bulbs in?
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
I saw that article a while back and wondered the same, but after looking online I only found European distributors with any stock. I'm sure they would ship if you wouldn't mind paying, but those would be some expensive bulbs when shipping is added in.
Dapg8gt
New member
I remember that study being tainted for some reason. Like the shop doing it was fudging the info and not giving the competition a fair shake. But that's from a hazey memory but I'd suggest looking it up before paying more money for no gain.
I'm sure some of the others on here will chime in, I know the real outcome was not what they stated though ..
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
That study is beyond tainted. The owner of the shop ended up being either part of AquaScience or best friends with the owner of AS. I don't remember the exact details but that study needs to disappear before it continues to lead people the wrong way.
It's too bad because AS bulbs were pretty good bulbs but not worth it now. They tried to pull a quick one and got busted
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