The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Insane Reefer]

Based on the crud that these rocks leech during their kure and the hard mineral stains your have to try to clean off the glass, I would find almost anyway I could not to make them in-tank.

This stuff cuts pretty readily with a circular or worm driven saw with a cement or diamond blade, if you get my drift. Casting onto plywood, acrylic or even glass will give you a flat back, and if you used plywood, you could use 2x4 to make a break away form. Tin flashing could be used to make separate panels after you cast - sort of like the magician trick of slicing the woman in the box up - add the flashing to "cut" the panels while wet.

I know people have and do kure backwalls in-tank, but man, that is a lot of scrubbing, IMO.

 

[shookbrad]

I will only soak the rock for about 24-48 hours in the tank its self. I do not want to have to worry too much about the crud on the glass. I am only doing this becouse I will be able to heat the water with a propane torch to assist in desolving the salt. After that I will unscrew the bulkheads and put the structure in a rubbermaid and follow the recommended Kuring process.

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10200933#post10200933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shookbrad
I am only doing this becouse I will be able to heat the water with a propane torch to assist in desolving the salt.

That is cool - I just thought I would make sure you understood how nasty the leech water is.

May I ask how you will heat the water in-tank with a propane torch?
:eek1:

A garden hose hooked to your laundry supply or directly to your water heater might be a safer option...

 

[medic29]

I'm picturing torch flame against glass, then glass shattering! Not a pretty image I must say.

 

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10200933#post10200933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shookbrad
I will only soak the rock for about 24-48 hours in the tank its self. I do not want to have to worry too much about the crud on the glass. I am only doing this becouse I will be able to heat the water with a propane torch to assist in desolving the salt. After that I will unscrew the bulkheads and put the structure in a rubbermaid and follow the recommended Kuring process.

I would use a quick setting hydraulic cement and save yourself all that hassle of moving the rock around. I let it sit for a few days then fill it up. The same water is in there years later.

After a few weeks, I use a toothbrush to remove the calcium salts that migrates to the surface of the cement. The PH will be back to 8.2-8.4 after a few days of soaking in saltwater.

The cement will bond well to the PVC pipes if you use only 25% aggregate.

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10201101#post10201101 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.wilson
I would use a quick setting hydraulic cement and save yourself all that hassle of moving the rock around. I let it sit for a few days then fill it up. The same water is in there years later.

After a few weeks, I use a toothbrush to remove the calcium salts that migrates to the surface of the cement. The PH will be back to 8.2-8.4 after a few days of soaking in saltwater.

The cement will bond well to the PVC pipes if you use only 25% aggregate.

Quikwall would fall into this category correct?

 

[Insane Reefer]

Mr Wilson mentions Bomix as one that has a longer work time - close to 20 minutes. You will want the longest work time possible - some of these set in like 3 minutes...

 

[shookbrad]

That is a good idea about the hot water heater. I will do that. I plan on heating the water directley on the surface.Blow the flame right into the top of the water. I would not put the heat directley on the glass. You are right. That would be stupid. Shatter.

Why would I not use white portland?

 

[Insane Reefer]

Yeah, if you use the water heater, just drain the cooled water and refill - a couple of tank heaters cranked up will lengthen the time the water stays hot.

Quick set cements stabilize pH-wise in a few days or a week or so, without the repeated water changes, unlike the traditional portlands. I'm not sure, but I believe some of these do not have the desirable pore and capillaries that portland does, but am having trouble determining either way, research-wise. But that doesn't particularly matter, the wall is for show and display - if adds filtration, great!, but if not, no big deal, IMO.
Also not sure how it would work with salt, though perlite might work just fine with the quick set cements, and make those panels a lot lighter - that way, if you ever have to move the tank, it won't take a football team to lift it
Mr Wilson can provide a lot more info about quick set cements, brands he has used and and the like, if he would be so kind.

 

[mr.wilson]

The torch will not heat the water.

The Bomix product I used is called "Swift Patch". It has a 20 minute work time. Thorite also has a 20 minute work time. Quikwall and King Plugtite will also work, but Plugtite has more shrinkage.

Here are some pictures of plumbing covered in concrete.

 

[mr.wilson]

Another option for hiding the plumbing is making rock with holes in the centre. You can punch a hole in the rock with a PVC pipe, while the cement is wet. These doughnuts, or donuts as you would say, can be placed over the PVC pipe skeleton.

This tank has Fiji live rock that has been core drilled, but you would have the same effect with DIY rock. Some of the plumbing is functional (closed loop, surface skimmer drain to sump, and sump return) and some is structural (a little vertebrate for the invertebrates).

 

[shookbrad]

wow! you really have done a lot of plumbing hiding! It looks great too. Thanks for the pics. I think I am going to use the white Portland since that is what I have on hand and I want to make the rock today. It will be at least 6 weeks before the stand is completely ready anyway. I have the frame built but I am making a very fancy stand. It will be covered in marble with different accents and some lights that shine down the sides. Not only will that take some time but $$ also so I have to buy a little at a time. I priced some of the accents last night and they alone were $160. :eek1:
http://www.cooltiles.com/emepewtertile.html
Check out the ocean Tiles!

 

[shookbrad]

I thought of another way to heat the water. I will take an old pot and place it in the tank. so it would be floating. force it down a little so more surface is in the water and heat the pot itself. That should give good heat transfer to the water.
What can I say I just like to use a torch!

 

[Insane Reefer]

Brad, trust me, I know what it is like to love a tool.

But sometimes certain tools just aren't appropriate to the job, or even necessary. I can think of about 8 different things that could go wrong, just off the top of my head, and 2 of them could be fatal.
Almost everyone has old tank heaters around (friends, club members, loaners from LFS) - if you can find a few cheap old one's, they usually don't have temperature regulators like the newer ones do, crank them up and they can keep your water pretty warm. You don't need boiling water - hot water will work almost as well.
Remember, your wall is going to be fairly thin - 2 to 3 inches at most, so salt release will be simple if you cast your mix loose and dry - rock sheets are one project that you really want to be careful with your mix - sort of hard to take it out if you mess it up, and the white will really hold the salt if it is too wet, and become like porcelain.
Personally, I don't use salt in backwalls - the one in my gallery pics/biocube is just Ol' Skool recipe, with no salt - I went for strength over porosity.

None of us want to see you hurt. Please reconsider the propane torch idea...


And awesome tiles! I have a friend in the Kitchen/bath design business - I'll have to send her the link see if she can get stuff like that in next time I do some tile...

I picked these up online, out of a canadian outfit, for my hood on the 75G that I will never be able to setup

I have a guy who is going to carve a neptune head to be the center piece between these dragons...

 

[EBOLII]

I really like that good for you

 

[Insane Reefer]

Picked up some perlite at Walmart today and cast my first "floating reef" test pieces
I cast 2 death stars (spheres) and 2 floating domed stalactites, 2 different recipes, 2 pieces each.
I also made a "regular" piece, but replacing CC with perlite.

I decided to try something different. A few months back, I picked up a bag of the sand blasting sand, but decided not to use it. I'm going to try it with this rock. I also did not use any salt in these test pieces - want to give the perlite a fair trial on it's own.

I don't think these are going to float, but should give me an idea of how much perlite I will need to achieve semi-buoyancy, and give me an idea of how it works and how it cures and kures.

From casting the death star, (which really got compacted in me trying for perfection), I can determine that there are still tons of spaces and crannies, even without the salt (not talking about voids, but the spaces between stuff) - I think there might actually be more space between by mixing the round (perlite) with the grain (sand) with the gravel (Crushed Oyster).

I'm thinking that the floating reefs might need to be made of two mixes - one denser for the bottom and one really light for the top; this should make the rock have a north and south pole of sorts, and keep them from spinning all the time, especially as life starts to take off on them...

One batch will get baked, just to see what we see.

Will post more info later, and pictures too.

 

[Neptune777]

:lmao: Have fun with that one! I think you should cover the whole thing with zoas of different colors and make a globe...hehe



I made a perlite/quikwall rock last week to test it out. I agree it is VERY porous.


As far as being safe for fish here is some proof (not scientific mind you): http://www.drislink.com/slink/fish/rocks.htm

 

[Insane Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10209145#post10209145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
:lmao: Have fun with that one! I think you should cover the whole thing with zoas of different colors and make a globe...

My hubby and I were at the LFS the other day and he saw some silver zoos that he says he wants on his Death Star, lol - changed his mind about the Star Polyps, so we will see.
But a globe of the earth could be cool, but might be harder to keep the zoos in their "continents" than it is to keep peace in the various places of the world...

And as far as proof of perlite being safe, well, literally thousands of pages exist for hypertufa and it's ilk, which has been used for many, many years in the various freshwater hobbies. Though you will be hard pressed to find any mention of "cement reef perlite" in a google search...

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10209771#post10209771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
My hubby and I were at the LFS the other day and he saw some silver zoos that he says he wants on his Death Star, lol - changed his mind about the Star Polyps, so we will see.
But a globe of the earth could be cool, but might be harder to keep the zoos in their "continents" than it is to keep peace in the various places of the world...

And as far as proof of perlite being safe, well, literally thousands of pages exist for hypertufa and it's ilk, which has been used for many, many years in the various freshwater hobbies. Though you will be hard pressed to find any mention of "cement reef perlite" in a google search...

My only concern was the Al203 content....but it looks like this is regular glass as well (lesser % though). From what I can tell perlite is totally inert and will not pose a problem.....but I am cautious.
I should make a couple frag plugs with lots of perlite to see how well a coral frag grows on it. I run mostly SPS and I am concerned for them mainly....

 

[lubricus]

I went down to the creek a week ago, i had some DIY rocks that I made with 1 part Portland and 2 parts rock salt, I haven't been there in a year! so I was a bit excited to see how they were looking. You'd think it would be easy to fined over 400 pounds of rock in a creek, the creek was swollen and brown from the rain we had last week so it was vary hard to see but that wasn't the real problem, someone had built a rock dame out of limestone and used some of my rocks to make it!!! and crushing some of the DIY rocks in its construction, I'll have to go back when the water level goes back down and see what I can fined. I did manage to bring some home, they look awesome and look like LR to me, I took a chisel and split one in half it looked like a Arrow-bar inside! I cleaned and boiled about 4lbs of it and added it to my 6g nano, so far so good.

I realy dont think I'm going to finde all my rock, I should get enough for my 95g. but I am dreaming of a much larger system for near future.

Id like to do a few things different. like cure my rock at home so know-one will mess with it:mad2:

Do you think the mix that I used will be porous enough? any suggestions, I dont want to complicate things to much I just want to end-up with DIY rock that dose its job.

Thanks Bill