The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
- Status
goldmaniac
New member
I'll keep everyone posted. I have 9 pieces to kure, and I made 3 in April, 2 in May, 2 in June, 2 in July. my lovely wife had our 2nd child in April, so I've been grabbing an hour of free time whenever I could. It worked out for the MMLR, anyway, as they had the whole summer to sit in my hot garage and cure as I kured my 1st batch in the basement.
I'll post my results.
G.
I'll post my results.
G.
goldmaniac
New member
nope, in this thread, they have two meanings:
cure: to let newly-poured cement rock harden and set
kure: to put the cement into water, after it hardens, to get the pH down to 7.0 - 8.0. If you don't kure, any new MMLR into a tank will spike the pH and kill everything
cure: to let newly-poured cement rock harden and set
kure: to put the cement into water, after it hardens, to get the pH down to 7.0 - 8.0. If you don't kure, any new MMLR into a tank will spike the pH and kill everything
Insane Reefer
New member
Actually, one could use all new MMLR after the initial 14 day set - you would just need to make sure you kept it buffered...
Or it would kill everything.
Or it would kill everything.
goldmaniac
New member
I'd end up killing everything.
Insane Reefer
New member
Honestly, I probably would too 
jasonh
New member
Sounds right to me.
My first batch of rock was put into water a day after it was made. Left it there for a week with no water changes. Then left it out to dry for around 3-4 weeks I think it was. After 1 day back in the water, the Ph was 8.0.
My next batch of rock I just left sitting out for a couple weeks after it was made. I've changed the water almost every day for a week now and the Ph is still off the charts.
Something about that first soak....
I am using rapid-setting cement btw.
goldmaniac
New member
this is a 120 gallon tank, 2' high, 4' wide, in this picture, it's about 3.5 feet across, 2 feet high.
My thickness of my pieces are mostly between 1" and 2.5", maybe a spot or two where a "Y" meets is 3 inch thick.
<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_newMMLR_20070917_w1000.jpg" border="0" alt="">
My thickness of my pieces are mostly between 1" and 2.5", maybe a spot or two where a "Y" meets is 3 inch thick.
<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_newMMLR_20070917_w1000.jpg" border="0" alt="">
goldmaniac
New member
forgot to add:
I had two "islands" of rock, and added my 1st batch of MMLR to the "island" on the right. You can see the difference in color, before any algae or anything grows on it.
<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_side_new_MMLR_20070917_650.jpg" border="0" alt="">
I had two "islands" of rock, and added my 1st batch of MMLR to the "island" on the right. You can see the difference in color, before any algae or anything grows on it.
<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/tank_side_new_MMLR_20070917_650.jpg" border="0" alt="">
Goldmaniac, your setup looks great!
I am water curing my ol'skool rock and I wanted to ask a few questions.
1) during a water cure,how strong a powerhead do you use for different amounts of rock and how often do you do water changes?
2)would it be incorrect to assume that with proper flow and water changes I can have some of my rock rdy in anohter 2 months? (some of it has air cured for ~2 months already and water cured w/o flow for 1 month).
3)I also wanted to ask if using quarried limestone would be less effective in any way compared to using MMLR(as it is made in this thread) or compared to using real reef rock.
i was thinking of buying some quarried limestone(if they have it in my area) and then coating it with concrete to look like reef rock.
4)If the core of the rock was quarried limestone, it would not take as long to cure, correct?
5)if you can get any kind of concrete, is one kind hands down better than another, or are some better because of the way they look? I mean what is the best brand to use? I have been using portland II, but i might be able to get type I, but I don't know how much more it would be worth paying.
6)so what is the fastest that anyone has been able to get their rock cured? is it only a few days if you use polymer-modified with micro silica in a large volume tank?
7)some of my rock has tiny sharp points and edges - anyone else have this and is it a bad thing?
Also, a dumb question:
how do I measure out the right amount of perlite to use? it is by weight and not volume, correct?
btw, I am going to post my latest rock. is it okay to post here, or should I put it in the "show off your ultimate rock thread"?
Also, i ordered a whole mess of wide range pH test strips from Hobbytron, I am so dissapointed - the strips do not work and it took a long time to get here. The package weighed less than 1lb and it cost 8 dollars to ship it. <sigh> Anyone know about returning things to hobbytron(online)
glad to be able to participate in this thread. thanks for any help
I am water curing my ol'skool rock and I wanted to ask a few questions.
1) during a water cure,how strong a powerhead do you use for different amounts of rock and how often do you do water changes?
2)would it be incorrect to assume that with proper flow and water changes I can have some of my rock rdy in anohter 2 months? (some of it has air cured for ~2 months already and water cured w/o flow for 1 month).
3)I also wanted to ask if using quarried limestone would be less effective in any way compared to using MMLR(as it is made in this thread) or compared to using real reef rock.
i was thinking of buying some quarried limestone(if they have it in my area) and then coating it with concrete to look like reef rock.
4)If the core of the rock was quarried limestone, it would not take as long to cure, correct?
5)if you can get any kind of concrete, is one kind hands down better than another, or are some better because of the way they look? I mean what is the best brand to use? I have been using portland II, but i might be able to get type I, but I don't know how much more it would be worth paying.
6)so what is the fastest that anyone has been able to get their rock cured? is it only a few days if you use polymer-modified with micro silica in a large volume tank?
7)some of my rock has tiny sharp points and edges - anyone else have this and is it a bad thing?
Also, a dumb question:
how do I measure out the right amount of perlite to use? it is by weight and not volume, correct?
btw, I am going to post my latest rock. is it okay to post here, or should I put it in the "show off your ultimate rock thread"?
Also, i ordered a whole mess of wide range pH test strips from Hobbytron, I am so dissapointed - the strips do not work and it took a long time to get here. The package weighed less than 1lb and it cost 8 dollars to ship it. <sigh> Anyone know about returning things to hobbytron(online)
glad to be able to participate in this thread.
thanks for any help 
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I think coating quarried limestone is a sound practice. You get the aesthetics you want, with lots of media for denitrifying bacteria. It will cure quickly, cost less, and cut your labour significantly.
The only downside is it's heavy, but that's only a problem if you're producing it commercially and shipping it across the country.
The only downside is it's heavy, but that's only a problem if you're producing it commercially and shipping it across the country.
Rhodophyta
New member
If limestone is quarried near you, you may be able to locate a type of limestone called tufa. This limestone already looks like reef rock, although the holes and tubes in it were caused by it forming around roots and sticks. It is deposited and forms near the surface very quickly for a rock anyway. It grows the same way cave formations do, but since it forms in soil, it has many open spots in it. I drill some extra holes in it to make it easier to rinse out any trapped material, although the material even if it had been tree roots is usually long gone. You would probably find it "downstream" from major limestone deposits, especially in an area where there are springs.
goldmaniac
New member
MMM,
Yes, I think you can get it ready in under two months. I'd change water every two days for 3 weeks. then check pH. I bet, after 2 months dry cure and a month of wet kure, it's going to be ready.
For my rock, i just tossed a little Rio 2900 water pump into the 30 gallon hex tank to keep flow as the MMLR kures. I changed it about once a week for about 10 weeks? i forget. I documented it a few pages back.
I'm going to start on a larger group of rock, and I'm going to use a 32 gallon trash can, with an overflow into a "keg tub" sized tub that will have the 2900 pump pumping water back into the 32 gallon. I'll be changing it every other day for a couple weeks, and then I'll probably slow down to once a week.
G.
Yes, I think you can get it ready in under two months. I'd change water every two days for 3 weeks. then check pH. I bet, after 2 months dry cure and a month of wet kure, it's going to be ready.
For my rock, i just tossed a little Rio 2900 water pump into the 30 gallon hex tank to keep flow as the MMLR kures. I changed it about once a week for about 10 weeks? i forget. I documented it a few pages back.
I'm going to start on a larger group of rock, and I'm going to use a 32 gallon trash can, with an overflow into a "keg tub" sized tub that will have the 2900 pump pumping water back into the 32 gallon. I'll be changing it every other day for a couple weeks, and then I'll probably slow down to once a week.
G.
Insane Reefer
New member
MMM
As far as being ready, it really depends on the rock you made. Most rock that people have reported on has been ready within 2 months, some less, and a couple, more. It sounds like you are on the right track though.
Limestone is tricky. It really, really depends on what you can get locally. For example, the stuff I can get locally, has started to crystallize, and is very, very dense - there would be no point in trying to use something like this as it is non-porous - would be like throwing a bowling ball in and thinking it would provide a habitat for bacteria. But if you can get tufa rock, or a non-dense limestone, that would certainly work.
5) Type 2 is the most commonly used as it is the most commonly available. I personally like white portland, but Between type and type 2, you aren't really going to see a difference - stick with what you have, if it is working.
6) Micro-silica only shaves about a week or two off the time, or so it is looking, and for that week, you loose a lot of the capillary action that unadulterated cement has. IMO, it is showing to be more cost and effort then it is worth. I personally (and most lab monkeys) have gotten rock kured in 7-9 days using the Jiffy Rock method. I think the quickest I've seen posted for traditional methods, is two weeks, and according to that person, they did nothing "special" - it was just ready that quick. Using air kuring, it seems like the time-frame has shifted down a bit, and is sitting at around 6 weeks; 4 weeks in the air, 2 weeks of water changes.
7) Take a hefty dowel or wire bristled brush and give it a good "go over" - sharp points are normal, but most can be sort of knocked off.
And like the other aggregates, you are measuring perlite for volume, not weight.
As far as being ready, it really depends on the rock you made. Most rock that people have reported on has been ready within 2 months, some less, and a couple, more. It sounds like you are on the right track though.
Limestone is tricky. It really, really depends on what you can get locally. For example, the stuff I can get locally, has started to crystallize, and is very, very dense - there would be no point in trying to use something like this as it is non-porous - would be like throwing a bowling ball in and thinking it would provide a habitat for bacteria. But if you can get tufa rock, or a non-dense limestone, that would certainly work.
5) Type 2 is the most commonly used as it is the most commonly available. I personally like white portland, but Between type and type 2, you aren't really going to see a difference - stick with what you have, if it is working.
6) Micro-silica only shaves about a week or two off the time, or so it is looking, and for that week, you loose a lot of the capillary action that unadulterated cement has. IMO, it is showing to be more cost and effort then it is worth. I personally (and most lab monkeys) have gotten rock kured in 7-9 days using the Jiffy Rock method. I think the quickest I've seen posted for traditional methods, is two weeks, and according to that person, they did nothing "special" - it was just ready that quick. Using air kuring, it seems like the time-frame has shifted down a bit, and is sitting at around 6 weeks; 4 weeks in the air, 2 weeks of water changes.
7) Take a hefty dowel or wire bristled brush and give it a good "go over" - sharp points are normal, but most can be sort of knocked off.
And like the other aggregates, you are measuring perlite for volume, not weight.
Last edited:
Insane Reefer
New member
Oh, and MMM, what did you mean that the test strips you got didn't work? Were these plain litmus paper strips?
If not, go to Hobbylobby, or a place like hobbylobby (HobbyTown might have them as well), go to the "science kit" section and they should have litmus strips for like $2 for 100 strips - tiny little vial, short, 1.5" strips. These are what I've been using, and they seem reasonably accurate when compared to a test kit, and cheap too!
And do please post your rock here, but you should post it there too
If not, go to Hobbylobby, or a place like hobbylobby (HobbyTown might have them as well), go to the "science kit" section and they should have litmus strips for like $2 for 100 strips - tiny little vial, short, 1.5" strips. These are what I've been using, and they seem reasonably accurate when compared to a test kit, and cheap too!
And do please post your rock here, but you should post it there too
I was being a bonehead with the strips. I was holding them with my fingers and dipping them in the water and they would give a reading of 7. When I am not being an idiot and use tweezers to dip them in the water it seems like they give an accurate reading.
Hopefully the limestone is porous, this area has alot of caves and springs, so I have my fingers crossed.
I'm going to get information about the limestone in my area from a representative(trying to contact him atm).
After I obtain information about the compostion of the rocks, is there anything I should look out for?
I am wondering if there could be anything in the compostion of the rocks that would make it less than optimal for use in MMLR - or is limestone limestone and any will any variability between limestone in different areas not make a differance for use in MMLR?
IR, how often do you change the water when you are water curing your MMLR? So far i have been lazy and havne't been changing it much.
Hopefully the limestone is porous, this area has alot of caves and springs, so I have my fingers crossed.
I'm going to get information about the limestone in my area from a representative(trying to contact him atm).
After I obtain information about the compostion of the rocks, is there anything I should look out for?
I am wondering if there could be anything in the compostion of the rocks that would make it less than optimal for use in MMLR - or is limestone limestone and any will any variability between limestone in different areas not make a differance for use in MMLR?
IR, how often do you change the water when you are water curing your MMLR? So far i have been lazy and havne't been changing it much.
Insane Reefer
New member
MMM,
What exactly are you wanting this rock for, and what do you expect the rock to do? I think you need to answer that before deciding on a course of action.
Limestone, IMO, even covered with MMLR, isn't going to offer the same benefits as rocks made completely of cement, and may even be worse in a couple of ways.
Another thing to keep in mind is that limestone is a lot more dense than MMLR (or even real LR for that matter), and displacement might become an issue. 100lbs of our local limestone would be about 6 basketball sized rocks - would take quite a bit to form the typical rock pile most use in their reefs, and greatly reduce water capacity in the tank.
And again, with mined rock, you are going to end up with dense, hard angular blocks of rock - even covering these won't disguise that.
As far as limestone, and what to look for, well, one would be porosity, and surface pores, but limestone, by it's nature, isn't very porous (and having holes and being porous are two different things).
But more important, for safety, would be mineral/metal content. Other minerals often found in limestone include (but not limited to): zinc, graphite, gold, molybdenite, chalcopyrite, pyrite, pyrrhotite, arsenopyrite, fluorite, quartz, corundum, hematite, ilmenite, magnetite, spinel, rutile, anorthite, phlogopite, titanite, galena, lead, chalcopyrite, sphalerite, and tetrahedrite, barite gangue and apatite (taken from google.)
Several of these can be quiet nasty heath-wise, so would probably be something to avoid in the reef tank...
Limestone comes in a lot of forms, most unsuitable to our uses, IMO - in this list, the types that might be useful are in italics:
Micrite
Fossiliferous limestone (if it hasn't started to crystallize)
Coquina
Chalk
Oolitic limestone
Intraclastic limestone
Pelleted or peloidal limestone (This is different from the stuff at the store!)
Crystalline limestone
Travertine (aka Tufa, a crystalline limestone in old deposits, so check)
For example, this state has a lot of galena in the southern regions, and in the areas that galena is mined from, so is limestone - thus there will likely be some galena found in any limestone taken from that area. Where I am, in the central portion of the state, our limestone tends to be crystalline limestone, and somewhat cherty to boot. That isn't to say that appropriate limestones aren't found in these areas, they just aren't mined - one would have to find it and gather it themselves.
One the more helpful side, you want limestone that is high in magnesium - a more dolostone type limestone, which should also be more porous.
This link will tell you about the limestone that natural reefs form on, and might give you a better idea of the types of terrestrial limestone you could use.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1X...ts=DtOLc5S6h3&sig=NUoUYFeVUEIIYgK9LQoZ-btEpV4
And again, if undesirable minerals are likely to be found in the rock you can get locally, I'd avoid using them.
You can get a head start on the local rock quarry by googling:
geology yourstatesname limestone
A little research will likely reveal what types of local stone you could use, and forearm you for when you talk to the rep.
And as for how often I change water, well, I too am lazy
I no longer do the full blown water kure - I air cure for several weeks (3-5 usually), and then start the water kure.
The first week of water kuring, I usually change it once every other day, but during the rest of it I may go 3-4 days between changes, testing pH as I go, until the pH is steady at 8.5-9. Then it comes out and sits dry (carbonating) until I need it.
Or I make Jiffy Rock and not worry about water changes.
Depends on what I need it for.
What exactly are you wanting this rock for, and what do you expect the rock to do? I think you need to answer that before deciding on a course of action.
Limestone, IMO, even covered with MMLR, isn't going to offer the same benefits as rocks made completely of cement, and may even be worse in a couple of ways.
Another thing to keep in mind is that limestone is a lot more dense than MMLR (or even real LR for that matter), and displacement might become an issue. 100lbs of our local limestone would be about 6 basketball sized rocks - would take quite a bit to form the typical rock pile most use in their reefs, and greatly reduce water capacity in the tank.
And again, with mined rock, you are going to end up with dense, hard angular blocks of rock - even covering these won't disguise that.
As far as limestone, and what to look for, well, one would be porosity, and surface pores, but limestone, by it's nature, isn't very porous (and having holes and being porous are two different things).
But more important, for safety, would be mineral/metal content. Other minerals often found in limestone include (but not limited to): zinc, graphite, gold, molybdenite, chalcopyrite, pyrite, pyrrhotite, arsenopyrite, fluorite, quartz, corundum, hematite, ilmenite, magnetite, spinel, rutile, anorthite, phlogopite, titanite, galena, lead, chalcopyrite, sphalerite, and tetrahedrite, barite gangue and apatite (taken from google.)
Several of these can be quiet nasty heath-wise, so would probably be something to avoid in the reef tank...
Limestone comes in a lot of forms, most unsuitable to our uses, IMO - in this list, the types that might be useful are in italics:
Micrite
Fossiliferous limestone (if it hasn't started to crystallize)
Coquina
Chalk
Oolitic limestone
Intraclastic limestone
Pelleted or peloidal limestone (This is different from the stuff at the store!)
Crystalline limestone
Travertine (aka Tufa, a crystalline limestone in old deposits, so check)
For example, this state has a lot of galena in the southern regions, and in the areas that galena is mined from, so is limestone - thus there will likely be some galena found in any limestone taken from that area. Where I am, in the central portion of the state, our limestone tends to be crystalline limestone, and somewhat cherty to boot. That isn't to say that appropriate limestones aren't found in these areas, they just aren't mined - one would have to find it and gather it themselves.
One the more helpful side, you want limestone that is high in magnesium - a more dolostone type limestone, which should also be more porous.
This link will tell you about the limestone that natural reefs form on, and might give you a better idea of the types of terrestrial limestone you could use.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1X...ts=DtOLc5S6h3&sig=NUoUYFeVUEIIYgK9LQoZ-btEpV4
And again, if undesirable minerals are likely to be found in the rock you can get locally, I'd avoid using them.
You can get a head start on the local rock quarry by googling:
geology yourstatesname limestone
A little research will likely reveal what types of local stone you could use, and forearm you for when you talk to the rep.
And as for how often I change water, well, I too am lazy
I no longer do the full blown water kure - I air cure for several weeks (3-5 usually), and then start the water kure.
The first week of water kuring, I usually change it once every other day, but during the rest of it I may go 3-4 days between changes, testing pH as I go, until the pH is steady at 8.5-9. Then it comes out and sits dry (carbonating) until I need it.
Or I make Jiffy Rock and not worry about water changes.
Depends on what I need it for.
- Status
