The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[Insane Reefer]

Cool. Nice work.

Do keep us posted on the kure and if you would, the first 6 months in-tank. I know a few peep's have added small amounts of cement colorant to their rock, but can't remember anyone doing to total color job like you did. I would like to keep track of it and see if there are any problems down the road with it.
Not that I think you will have any troubles (I hope not!), but am sort of curious about possible leeching of color (though this is made for cement, so probably a "no" on that), and of possible contaminants - a while back someone posted a box of colored grout that had a Chromium warning on it - not sure about the oxides, etc that they use to color the mix with, and since a lot of folks have wanted to color, would be nice to add to the Super Long Post that the stuff you used is safe/not safe.
You dig?

 

[kraze3]

Does anyone else have pics of their Portland bags that they could post. Im curious as to what other kinds are being used seeing as there are so many. I can only find one kind here in RI and MA so Ive been looking online which is why id like to see some pics

Thanks

 

[mmm55645]

I was kinda worried about using the colorant too, but I figured I'd give it a try. I thought that a while back Sunkool had mentioned using Polyblend(I think) or other brand of colored grout to make rock. It seems to me that if colored grout MMLR is safe, then portland with colorant should be as well.

I tried to look through this thread before I used the colorant, I thought in the super long post there was a link to cement colorants on ebay and I figured that the quikrete brand would not be too much different, although that is just an assumption.

I thought a while back someone told me in this thread that quikrete colorants were safe to use, maybe I took it the wrong way.

Perhaps I could attempt to contact quikrete or investigate the possibility of the rock not being safe in another way, I would like to know it is is safe or not in a faster and more conclusive way than having it in a tank for 6 months.

<strong>Does anyone have any knowledge about whether or not the cement colorant will be harmful, or any ideas of how I could determine whether or not it is?</strong>

I can post a pic of the colorant, I think the description of ingredients is vague though.


On another note, I put one of my uncolored rocks in a water cure with a bunch of leaves - it seems to have changed the color of the rock slightly.The change is not as dramatic as using the colorant, but it does look different from other rocks of the same batch, which were not water cured with the leaves. I don't know what kind of tree it was though. I will post a pic of the rock when I get around to it.

 

[goldmaniac]

I use Federal brand White Cement.

I posted the entire set of specs that is on the bag, don't have it right now, but I do remember that actual name of the product was Federal White Cement. it's Type 1, I think i remember, too.

Look for a post by me from around May, June, July 2007. Sorry, can't be more specific that that.

G.

 

[impur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10939097#post10939097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kraze3
Does anyone else have pics of their Portland bags that they could post. Im curious as to what other kinds are being used seeing as there are so many. I can only find one kind here in RI and MA so Ive been looking online which is why id like to see some pics

Thanks

 

[mmm55645]

wow it is quiet in here.

How do you use your powerhead to provide flow for curing rocks? Do you use the venturi feature? I am curious if adding air to the water makes any difference.

 

[Insane Reefer]

I ended up foregoing water movement - I was eating through powerheads at a pretty steady clip (even with cleaning with vinegar), and haven't seen much difference in kure times.

More air would be advantageous as it also adds some Co2 which will promote carbonation quicker, in theory...

 

[mmm55645]

IR, how long do you let your rocks with salt in the mix sit in the mold and how long do you air cure them?

it seems like longer air cure is good, but with salt in the mix it could be bad b/c you want to get rid of the salt. is there a general rule of thumb you use? something like 1 or 2 days in the mold, one week air cure and then start water cure?

seems like it cures faster with a long air cure, but you don't want a long air cure if you have salt in the mix, correct?

IR- I am worried about my red rocks leaching, I might try to go through some engineering databases and find info that might help-do you have any idea where I can start researching this?
I guess if it boils down to it I can just wait and see what happens, but i was hoping I could find out wihout having to invest 6 months.

--thanks

 

[Insane Reefer]

I try to get the salt out as soon as the cement has hardened sufficiently to handle easily. If using unadulterated Ol' Skool+, I generally remove the rock from the mold on day 3 or 4, and immediately release the salt (a day or two, depends on me and on the rock), drain and start the air kure in a warm damp environment (black bags work well).

It seems to be much harder to release the salt if you wait more then a week or two, or allow it to dry out completely before starting the removal process.

A series of hot water soaks (or boiling) to release the salt will accomplish two things: one, it will cause the salt to release faster than it will in cold water, and two, if the rock is going to leech color, it will do so faster (and more noticeably) in the hot water than in cold.

Honestly, MMM, call Quikcrete and ask. Ask what compounds/oxides are used, in what concentration. Tell them what you are using it for, and ask if used to make rock for a pond or the like, if it would be considered "Non-Toxic". Ask about how exposure to saltwater would effect it. If what they say isn't clear, post it here and we can debate it as a group.

But this is a MSDS for the product I assume you used:
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/msds/142984.pdf

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this stuff, by the time the rock is fully kured, will be safe in a normal FW aquarium setup. And while it might be safe in FW, that doesn't mean it will be safe in saltwater, necessarily. It says it uses Iron Oxides for coloring, and I would think those would be safe, in small amounts, but who knows? I don't - not for sure


HTH...

 

[SWINGRRRR]

Heres my attempt. This is the first batch, so they don't look the best. I think the second batch is coming out alot better. Ill have pics of batch #2 in a couple of days, I just did them.
Batch #1:

 

[Insane Reefer]

Welcome to the thread, Swingrrr

Those are creditable first attempt rocks - nothing wrong with them, and you will only get better as you make more.

That looks like Travis's Original Recipe cast in salt. Would that be correct?

 

[SWINGRRRR]

Yeah. I cast them on a bed of salt in a Steralite Tub. I cant say the exact mix. I ended up putting to much water in, so I added cement powder. I think they are coming out ok. The next batch is going to be real good, I think. Should have some pics tomorrow. I am not going to mess with them for a full 2 days.

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10970030#post10970030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer .... It says it uses Iron Oxides for coloring, and I would think those would be safe, in small amounts, but who knows? I don't - not for sure

IME iron oxide is very safe, even in visually offensive amounts. There used to be a large tank here with a real ship's anchor mounted in it as if it had snagged into a (fake) coral head. The anchor began to rust and billows of iron oxide accumulated across the back of the coral head out of sight from the viewing side but obvious from the "working" back. During this time the fish in the tank were healthy and even breeding. The clownfish spawned like clockwork and some of their fry would grow up in the filter/refugium tank to be rescued to a grow out tank once big enough to be noticed.

It makes sense that iron oxide would not be toxic. It is pretty inert stuff. It oozes out of ground water and springs over much of North America creating orange coated areas in streams, rivers, and lakes with no effect on the fish. Much of the ocean's bottom is basalt, a rock containing enough iron to record paleomagnetism.

That fake coral head was about four feet tall and wider at the base. It was hollow inside with an opening in back. The supporting structure was cinder blocks mortered together in rings, leaving lots of openings to the inside of most blocks. The back was not visible from the tank's front glass, so was left undecorated. The front was covered with dolocrete, an early predecessor to aragocrete, and tufa, a type of limestone that naturally resembles coral. Everything was finished with mixtures of different color epoxy paints and dryer chips for one coral-like texture, diatomaceous earth for another texture that was perfect for imitating sponges, and when viewing through the front glass, looked very convincingly real. Unless you were back often and noticed the sponges and corals never grew.

 

[Insane Reefer]

Good to know, Rhody - thanks for the post
It does make sense in hindsight.

Where would "here" be, if I may ask? Sounds sort of cool.

 

[Neptune777]

The reaction to metals in the home aquarium can be drastically different between vertebrates and invertebrates (i.e. fish vs. corals). We do use a form of iron oxide (GFO) to remove phosphates......but from what I understand this is a special version of Iron Oxide (Iron Oxide Hydroxide)....otherwise we could get phosphate removers very cheap!

I don't like the idea of heavy amounts of rust in the Reef tank if you try to keep corals........unless I witness otherwise I think you will have issues IMO.

 

[goldmaniac]

I have to agree with Neptune. if rust wasn't a problem, metal would be used in the tank for structural or equipment purposes.

I think you're asking for trouble; and rust in an ocean is much different than rust within an enclosed system.

 

[Insane Reefer]

I think the issue is lessened when you take into account that the iron oxide in the colorant is going to bind with the cement.

I think the kicker will be how much color leeches out during the kure - if little leeches then chances are good that the amounts present at the surfaces will be safe...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10990653#post10990653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
I have to agree with Neptune. if rust wasn't a problem, metal would be used in the tank for structural or equipment purposes.

Not nesseccarily, even if it is safe, the metal would still corrode and weaken - still a good reason not to use metal...

 

[goldmaniac]

There's multiple reasons not to use metal in SW tanks. This is one of them. how about "... metal COULD be used in the tank for structural or .." better?

yes, Iron Oxide in the cement isn't the same as having an anchor in there as decorations.

IR, you're predicting it won't be an issue?

G.

 

[impur]

Here is my first large rock, i thought i'd share pics. Still need salt release bath then kuring. I cast this rock about 10 days ago. I'll dip in boiling water sometime this week/weekend and then into the bucket in my backyard for a month

 

[Rhodophyta]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10990653#post10990653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
I have to agree with Neptune. if rust wasn't a problem, metal would be used in the tank for structural or equipment purposes.

I think you're asking for trouble; and rust in an ocean is much different than rust within an enclosed system.

Rust has problems that have nothing to do with the health of the fish and inverts in the system. It is orange and looks unattractive. Components like screws and pump shafts that could be a source of the rust in a tank would fail after producing rust and losing substance. Using iron oxide as a colorant should be no problem at all.

I don't know of any studies comparing differences in the behavior of iron oxide in open and closed systems. I'd be interested in the documentation for your statement, or let me know if it is opinion only.